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Post by strutsagget on Jun 6, 2018 17:34:04 GMT
So I have a friend in the playgroup that also have a 40k army, and I wonder if it is possible to collect chaos demons so they can be played in both games.
Any inputs on what to collect would be good and feel free posting a playable list 😊
Is Tzeentch only possible in both games? Should I mix god?
This is a long-term project, and I will collect pieces when they show up a low price, but as I have never played 40k and never faced chaos daemons in wfb I need some help 😊
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Post by mottdon on Jun 6, 2018 18:27:36 GMT
I'd love to help, but as DoC is one of the few armies I have no experience with, I'm afraid I'll be of no help to you.
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Post by Horace on Jun 6, 2018 19:18:54 GMT
I can offer some pointers on the fantasy side of things but unfortunately I have 0 idea about 40k, so if you are wanting stuff which works well in both systems I can't really help
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 6, 2018 19:21:30 GMT
I can offer some pointers on the fantasy side of things but unfortunately I have 0 idea about 40k, so if you are wanting stuff which works well in both systems I can't really help Please write about fantasy side 😊 maybe someone else can help me about 40k side or I stumble upon some guide 😊
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Post by Horace on Jun 6, 2018 19:38:36 GMT
Ok so there are a few standout things which if you are after optimal lists, you will want to include. These are Skull Cannons (obviously) & Beasts of Nurgle in my opinion. Nurgle appears to be the obvious choice for most people with the -1 to hit and generally strong toughness, if they are wanting to mono-god. Epidemius can also be a nightmare in mono. I think you can probably play all of the gods reasonably well mono, Khorne will probably be hardest since you get no magic phase, but it's hardly terrible. I find mono lists more advantageous on the reign of chaos thing plus you benefit from the battle standard. My Daemons aren't in a good enough place to play proper mono lists at the moment though. I find the hardest thing with Daemons now (especially since 7th where they were auto-select) is Heralds. You really want them because of their pimping ability, but they do suck up points and are pretty squishy. Greater Daemons are totally awesome in my opinion. Keeper of Secrets is my personal favourite. Movement 10. Terrifying. Several of the special characters are pretty decent too. I'll write something a little more detailed tomorrow, I have to run to football now
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Post by gjnoronh on Jun 6, 2018 20:37:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 17:01:48 GMT
ANOTHER army Strut? You have a problem...
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 7, 2018 17:05:07 GMT
ANOTHER army Strut? You have a problem... I definitely have a Warhammer addiction. No denial at all But this is not now more if opportunities rise as no one here I collecting them anyway and if I start a 40k army I would like to use it in WFB too.
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Post by sedge on Jun 7, 2018 17:28:41 GMT
Aesthetically/based on fluff, do you have a preference for any of the gods? Are there any you wouldn't want to include in your army?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 17:58:36 GMT
I will say around here Tzeentch is very popular and they do well. Personally I collect mono-nurgle and everything Horace says is true. The -1 to hit, the inherent toughness, beasts, and epidemius all combine to make these guys my #1 choice for fantasy. No idea how they do in 40k, although there is one guy around here that has a reputation as a "friendly" powergamer (nice guy, friendly, but his lists are NOT friendly) who runs mono-nurgle so they must be decent. I haven't paid too much attention though so I don't know if there's Death Guard, poxwalkers, or anything else in there too.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2018 8:32:46 GMT
The problem I have with my Daemons army is it is almost like you "have" to collect 4 armies in 1. I generally use a mixed god force but I certainly want to get mine to the point where they can be fielded mono god for each of them.
I see the units like this:
Khorne
Bloodletters - Not exactly what they used to be (in 7th) but still a pretty damn good core unit. WS5, S5 (if they charge), Killing blow and a 6+ 5++. But they come in at Chaos Warrior cost. The Frenzy and Hatred loci are tempting but fairly pricey once you have already dropped 100 points on a Herald
Bloodcrushers - Not exactly Skullcruchers but still pack a pretty heavy punch.
Flesh Hounds - Love these guys, they can Ambush and pack enough of a punch to cut through most things
Skullcannon - Arguably overpowered/undercosted. Excellent.
Bloodthrone - I have never used this. In a mono Khorne list perhaps it has some viability spreading loci.. but only 6". I think not.
Skulltaker/Karanak - These are quite expensive, but quite fun to play with and could probably be surprisingly effective if things fell your way. In no way optimised.
Bloodthirster - I mean what is there to say? You point it at the enemy, get stuck in and let it run riot. Think about your gifts.
Heralds - I want to include them but I am still not entirely convinced it is a good idea. Perhaps in Bloodcrushers, on a juggernaut, for extra survivability
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2018 9:19:40 GMT
Tzeentch
People hate warpflame.. I've never really had any terrible experiences with it.
Pink horrors - In terms of fighting, they are pretty crap. They do however count as wizards and generate a spell so can happily spaff 6 dice if required with basically no repercussions, and can generate new models through kills.
Flamers - Another "not-what-they-used-to-be-in-7th" unit, thankfully. Still excellent in my opinion. BS4, S4, D6 multiple shots, skirmishers and relatively okish in combat? Yes please.
Screamers - Never used, they look like decent warmachine hunters to me.
Burning Chariots - Quite nifty although a bit soft. If you're going to be fighting try and do it from the flank or rear.
Blue Scribes - Never used them, I don't like them. Quite like the model.
Changeling - A walking VHS with a magic level. Can be incredibly annoying. 170 points though...
Kairos - He is steep points-wise, but he is bloody brilliant. He can't fight for toffee. But he is still marvelous. He can choose 4 spells for each head (ie 8) from the rulebook lores and is a Tzeentch Loremaster. He can fly, he has a 4++ and he gets 1 re-roll per turn. T5 & 5 wounds too..
Lord of Change - I am a big fan of all the Greater Daemons. Consider your gift choices though! Especially for LoC since it is a bit of a hybrid caster and is probably the least able fighter out of all of them. The Wand of Whimsy always tempts me
Heralds - I don't really love the loci for Tzeentch. You can always slap one on a disc though and they can be quite annoying for your enemy.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2018 10:28:59 GMT
Nurgle
Plaguebearers - Excellent. Really love them, one of the best core choices in the game. S4 T4, -1 to hit them and they hit back with poisoned attacks. If you have a decent block of these a Herald is well worth while. Not only because Nurgle Heralds are more survivable but also because the Nurgle loci are quite cool - pimped poison attacks or regeneration. Also regenerates models quite quickly via the lore of Nurgle.
Plague Drones - I have never used them but they look very Nurgle-y. Tough as nails. Not exactly massive amount of damage though.
Beasts of Nurgle - Nurgle just doesn't die. And these are among the worst culprits. Can issue challenges. T5, W4, -1 to hit and regeneration. Also put out D6+1 attacks (poisoned) at S4. Love these.
Nurglings - Pretty crap but that's what you expect. Scouts
Epidemius - Awesome in mono-nurgle. All wounds caused by daemons of nurgle add to the tally which just progressively pimps your army. 7 wounds +1 S to all your forces, 14 wounds +1 T, 21 wounds Killing Blow, 28 wounds re-reroll all failed ward saves. He also gives his unit 5+ Poison Attacks and is not bad himself at WS5 W5 T5 W4 and puts out a total of 9 attacks.
Kugath - An extra wound & attack, and a rock lobber strapped to his back for north of 250 points extra. Limited to level 1 magic too. Not a great deal in my book.
Great Unclean One - As I said before, I love a Greater Daemon. The toughest most survivable option. Not the most mobile though by Daemon standards, a "mere" movement 6. The Nurgle gift weapon options are pretty nice too.
Heralds - One of the better Herald options since they roll with T5, -1 to hit and a 5++. Plus they will also benefit from whichever loci you will select. They can also take a Palanquin which gains them 2 extra wounds and some extra attacks for 50 points..
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Post by admiral on Jun 8, 2018 11:09:44 GMT
No army list help here, but rather an anecdote. During 8th edition, a friend of mine had such trouble ranking up his plastic bloodletters, all painted in glorious red and gold, that he during a tournament just stacked them in a pile on top of each other on a regiment tray. Quite a sight!
After that tourney, he rebased them to 25mm rounds, in order to rank them up for WFB. He didn't have 40k use in mind (although that's a bonus) and this was perhaps a couple of years before Age of Sigmar and the thought of Warhammer fantasy minis on round bases wasn't alien.
However, GW has since changed 40k Daemon bases from 25mm to the new 32mm Space Marine standard, so it's not such a neat fit any longer if one was to want the bigger Daemonic infantry bases in 40k. Still, if you retain 25mm rounds, you can keep them on round bases and use them in both 40k and WFB without magnets thanks to regiment trays, and the models which are tricky to rank up becomes much easier when you can swivel them on rounds.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2018 13:07:02 GMT
Slaanesh I like Slaanesh. So fast. Bit of a glass cannon though. Really excellent at cutting through chaff and low armour troops, but start to struggle when things like Ironbreakers show up. Daemonettes - They suffer a little in the new book, but are still WS5, I5, 2 attacks with Armour Piercing. I like the ASF Herald loci option but again at 140 points for a T3 2W model, you are relying on WS and a 5++ for defence. ASF Daemonettes are absolutely terrifying for low armoured troops though. They just blend them. Movement 6. Seekers - Super fast Daemonettes, if M6 wasn't fast enough for you. Fast cavalry with Poisoned Attacks. Can be useful although I do find them a little lightweight. Seeker Chariots - The Exalted ones hit quite hard at 2D6 +1 impact hits & Armour Piercing with a mini Herald on top, but they are quite lightweight. They rely on 8 wounds to survive. The regular Chariot comes in pretty cheap point-wise though so isn't a bad option Fiends - Quite like these, M10 with 3 attacks and a stomp each. They also penalise enemy WS and I and are Armour Piercing. Excellent on a flank. Hellflayers - Never used one. I don't really see why you would. I guess it is just a delivery system for the Exalted Alluress and a hope that the Impact hits will pimp their attacks a bit further. Not that expensive I guess. The Masque - I have first hand experience of this recently. Really really super annoying to play against Single Character with Movement 10 so is practically impossible to tie down. Toughness 3 and only 2 wounds but with a 3++ and puts out some reasonable damage with WS7, 5 Attacks at S4 Armour Piercing. All the while gimping one of your units Strength or Leadership by -1 (or Initiative but why would you choose that..). 140 points so an interesting option.. Keeper of Secrets - I love KoS. A statline of M10, WS9, S6, T6, W5, I10, A6 gives you some really awesome options. It is so rapid you can just wang it straight into things and go mad. It also has some really nice gift options. You can trade your lesser gift for the ASF sword and you are basically guaranteed to be re-rolling. Or you could just roll it naturally. All of the Greater gifts are pretty decent for it to roll. The Lash of Despair is also an interesting one, with 2D6 multiple shots at BS6 S6. Also the lore of Slaanesh is particularly nasty in my opinion. Acquiescence & Cacophonic Choir are killer, they can completely gimp your opponents movement. Slicing Shards can work really well in combination with things like the Masque and Phantasmagoria (which is excellent in general - reverse cold blooded). You can always use your KoS as a more defensive super mobile caster who also smashes face if required. I find them really flexible and always bad-ass. Other StuffDaemon Prince - Cheap alternative for a Greater Daemon. Not as good as the Warriors version. Never actually used one as Daemons... Furies - They are cheap I will give them that. The cheap chaff alternative Soul Grinder - Never used one. they look fairly usable though. S6, T7 W6 with a thunderstomp. Not super expensive at 250 points, it will require attention from the enemy. It also gives you some shooting. I tend to prefer to get my Daemons into combat ASAP though All in all I like my Daemons to be super quick and into combat as quickly as possible. They have some nice anti war machine options and some hideously nasty units. Mono-god lists are all very viable but each one has some inherent weaknesses. Mixed lists give you LOADS of options, it just depends what you want to use in any particular game and what you can afford (points and ££ wise). The lores are all quite strong in my opinion (Slaanesh is my fav) and Greater Daemons are just plain fun
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