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Post by livewaaaaagh on Oct 10, 2018 14:18:40 GMT
Hi all,
A new topic for discussion: What has been the worst army comp - totally legal though - that you've gone up against? By worst, I mean, most annoying. Honorable mentions I'm thinking for example are Dwarfs corner caslte-ing with a gun line, wood elf avoidance armies, or a massive Gut-Star.
Look forward to hearing what everyone has to say here!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Oct 10, 2018 15:13:17 GMT
First off, great question.
I will take a day to decide my final answer. Elaborate. What do you mean, exactly, by worst? Annoying, sure. Worst as in really strong army; or cheesiest; or unfun to play against? Hi all,
A new topic for discussion: What has been the worst army comp - totally legal though - that you've gone up against? By worst, I mean, most annoying. Honorable mentions I'm thinking for example are Dwarfs corner caslte-ing with a gun line, wood elf avoidance armies, or a massive Gut-Star.
Look forward to hearing what everyone has to say here!
Dwarfs corner caslte-ing with a gun line = Not that bad IMHO. It's a predictable game, play-wise... If often comes down to moving, surrounding, and then beating one key Dwarf unit in a single multi-round combat and hoping you can take away their steadfast. A Chaos Warriors army with minimal monsters is often quite good at this. Strong infantry rank and file to go toe-to-toe with the dwarfs. No monsters and no chariots means their S10 cannons are killing 3 or 4 Chaos Warriors each turn. Which is an acceptable loss. Wood Elf avoidance armies = Annoying, but my W/L record against them ain't bad. Reason being, I see these armies and I know what I am going against before deployment. All you need to do, typically, is get 1 very small unit and 1 medium unit of theirs. Wood Elf units are expensive. I feel like I've won quite a few games by a score of 575 to 220 or something like that. Strangely enough, a Tomb Kings army I ran with 2 units of 30 Skellie Archers had a 3-0-1 record versus various Elf "Avoidance" armies. Massive Gut-Star = Depends. Heck of an Ogre Hammer/Anvil in one. Scary stuff, but... If you can dance around it and kill other stuff, you can win a game. Or, just do a "Avoidance" play or your own; i.e. flee from the GutStar over and over. You be the wood elves. Sacrifice small units of 5 Ungors and/or Hounds and/or Archers, etc. Ogres move fast, 6, and they charge like whoa. I feel like a lot of these games involve me keeping my units 17.25 inches from the GutStar are essentially daring the Ogres player to make a high charge roll or risk being totally enswarmed. Both flanks, etc. If they do, you're double screwed, cause now not only are you in combat, but they get impact hits for rolling 10"+ on the charge. Eeeeeeep!
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Post by knoffles on Oct 10, 2018 16:14:46 GMT
It is a good question and for me it all depends which army I’m using to face them.
I personally really dislike WoC with all their ‘unkillable’ characters, however they are surprisingly brittle when in combat. I also dislike Dark elves but that’s because I’ve never faced a variant list (no witch elves etc).
I suppose the worst armies now are those where peeps take the same old lists. In fairness I can be guilty of taking some elements of them, there are only so many options in each army. I also recognise that there are some contributing factors, only owning so many models and some armies almost being cookie-cuttered into specific.builds in order to be mildly competitive. But even those with multiple good options are often run the same way repeatedly.
As a generals rule I don’t mind facing double steam tanks, double ogre cannons and the harder lists. It’s a challenge, especially if you might have more unconvential lists. I suppose it’s the attitude the opponent brings that is key.
So I’ll change my answer into two parts:
1) And this one might be a bit controversial. Armies where they have been in the same state of part paintedness for the last 10 years. Especially if it is in a competition. I’m not the best painter in the world, work long hours, have a wife and child etc. How much effort is it to progress with some painting. Of course I’m discounting individuals who can’t paint as they are colour blind or have no arms etc. (Sorry that is being deliberately flippant but you get the gist). 2) those who deliberately try and take the most filthy or done to death combos and then try and pass them off as the most original thing ever and go on about how their amazing list beat Hitler and won the war, yada yada.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Oct 10, 2018 16:59:12 GMT
First off, great question.
I will take a day to decide my final answer. Elaborate. What do you mean, exactly, by worst? Annoying, sure. Worst as in really strong army; or cheesiest; or unfun to play against? Thanks for the answers! To answer the question: I meant like most boring to play against, or most cheesy-licious, or annoying. The kind of army that you see and you go "*sigh... here we go..".
For me, its the Wood Elves avoidance - like : "hey man, I'm here to have fun and a good game, not to chase you around all game."
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Oct 10, 2018 17:18:14 GMT
I think the MOST ANNOYING unit for me is the Steam Tank. (Maybe tied with an Ogres IronBlaster) Double Steam Tank = My beef with the ST is simply this: It never has to declare a charge, ergo, I can never flee from it. It breaks a fundamentally fair/balanced rule of the game.But, that said - I would never say The Empire is my least favorite to go up against. --I mean, the WALL OF STEEL Empire army is boring, RE: composition. --Huge block of knights for core, Armor 2+ --2 Units of DemiGryphs for Special, Armor 2+ --2 Steam Tanks, Armor 2+ Yawn If I take a competitive Tournament Army, I almost always try to grab 1 or 2 things that say: NO ARMOR SAVES just to hose over this somewhat common army build.
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Post by sedge on Oct 10, 2018 17:27:49 GMT
The worst for me are when you and your opponent have different expectations as to what approach you're taking to the game, and you end up with something like netlist vs. fluff-list. I've only had a handful of games I really didn't enjoy - one was my very first game of WFB, against a GW staff member who took a ridiculously powerful Ogre Kingdoms list that as a beginner I had absolutely no chance of beating, and wasn't going to enjoy or learn much from (and he knew it was my first game).
Another was a 40k game against a friend who completely out of character took a super-competitive list I had no chance of beating with my weedy Dark Eldar, whereas I was trying out various "weaker" units that I wanted to have a go with. He also ended up not enjoying the game so much, because it was too one-sided, and my army wasn't strong enough to give him a decent challenge. It was both of our fault for not discussing our approach beforehand.
But aside from failure to communicate, I find it not so enjoyable when your opponent either doesn't move (e.g. Dwarf castle) or spends all game trying to avoid you (e.g. Wood Elf avoidance list). I know both approaches can be dealt with, and are "fluffy", but that doesn't change the fact they're not as fun.
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 10, 2018 18:19:43 GMT
I don't have a 'most annoying' list anymore. I'd gladly take on castling dwarfs or avoiding wood elves or whatever over not playing 8th.
honorable mention for 'most annoying' unit of the good old days: 'unkillable' WC character on daemonic mount or similar Daemon Prince. As far as I remember it takes on average over 200 halberd attacks to kill. Try that in a six turn game. I was refusing to roll my dice for those combats. just say 'no wounds' and move on.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 10, 2018 18:47:58 GMT
I think the MOST ANNOYING unit for me is the Steam Tank. (Maybe tied with an Ogres IronBlaster) Double Steam Tank = My beef with the ST is simply this: It never has to declare a charge, ergo, I can never flee from it. It breaks a fundamentally fair/balanced rule of the game.But, that said - I would never say The Empire is my least favorite to go up against. --I mean, the WALL OF STEEL Empire army is boring, RE: composition. --Huge block of knights for core, Armor 2+ --2 Units of DemiGryphs for Special, Armor 2+ --2 Steam Tanks, Armor 2+ Yawn If I take a competitive Tournament Army, I almost always try to grab 1 or 2 things that say: NO ARMOR SAVES just to hose over this somewhat common army build. You have a jaded view of the Empire, of course. Huge block of knights for core, Armour 1+ --2 Units of DemiGryphs for Special, Armour 1+ --2 Steam Tanks, Armour 1+
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Oct 10, 2018 20:28:04 GMT
I'll keep shooting 4,000,000 Tomb King arrows at them. They'll roll a 1 eventually!!
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Post by gjnoronh on Oct 10, 2018 20:50:51 GMT
I'm with Will Steam Tank is the most annoying thing I faced in 8th. Forget the charge rules, doesn't take break tests, charges like a chariot but can also do similar grind attacks in later rounds of combat. Huge pile of high toughness high armor save wounds etc.
Barring purple sun or other death snipes I just would look at it and say that's one of my core infantry units that's gone for the game. Not easy to say for a guy who played warriors infantry blocks.
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Post by vulcan on Oct 10, 2018 20:58:06 GMT
For me it's less the list the opponent brings, than the attitude he or she brings. Bad sportsmanship irritates me far more than beardy or cheesy lists.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 10, 2018 22:27:52 GMT
I'm with Will Steam Tank is the most annoying thing I faced in 8th. Forget the charge rules, doesn't take break tests, charges like a chariot but can also do similar grind attacks in later rounds of combat. Huge pile of high toughness high armor save wounds etc. Its grind attacks can only be executed in the friendly Movement phase. That is, if it generates Steam Points. In the opponent's CC phase, the Steam Tank has a single WS3 S3 Attack from the Engineer - other than that it does nothing. Admittedly, it is much better than in the 7th edition, where it turned into a useless pile of junk, once it had suffered 4 Wounds.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Oct 10, 2018 23:28:52 GMT
For me it's less the list the opponent brings, than the attitude he or she brings. Bad sportsmanship irritates me far more than beardy or cheesy lists.
This. I'd rather play the hardest list possible against a great opponent who knows how to have fun and laugh than the fluffiest fluff monger list played by a serious Richard.
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Post by Horace on Oct 11, 2018 8:15:56 GMT
It is a good question and for me it all depends which army I’m using to face them. I personally really dislike WoC with all their ‘unkillable’ characters, however they are surprisingly brittle when in combat. I also dislike Dark elves but that’s because I’ve never faced a variant list (no witch elves etc). I suppose the worst armies now are those where peeps take the same old lists. In fairness I can be guilty of taking some elements of them, there are only so many options in each army. I also recognise that there are some contributing factors, only owning so many models and some armies almost being cookie-cuttered into specific.builds in order to be mildly competitive. But even those with multiple good options are often run the same way repeatedly. As a generals rule I don’t mind facing double steam tanks, double ogre cannons and the harder lists. It’s a challenge, especially if you might have more unconvential lists. I suppose it’s the attitude the opponent brings that is key. So I’ll change my answer into two parts: 1) And this one might be a bit controversial. Armies where they have been in the same state of part paintedness for the last 10 years. Especially if it is in a competition. I’m not the best painter in the world, work long hours, have a wife and child etc. How much effort is it to progress with some painting. Of course I’m discounting individuals who can’t paint as they are colour blind or have no arms etc. (Sorry that is being deliberately flippant but you get the gist). 2) those who deliberately try and take the most filthy or done to death combos and then try and pass them off as the most original thing ever and go on about how their amazing list beat Hitler and won the war, yada yada. Colour blindness is no excuse! My bro is colour blind and he paints his models just fine. I've not even noticed any funky colour schemes Another vote for ott unkillable characters for me. It is a tactic which seems designed to remove fun
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Post by gjnoronh on Oct 11, 2018 12:38:25 GMT
I'm with Will Steam Tank is the most annoying thing I faced in 8th. Forget the charge rules, doesn't take break tests, charges like a chariot but can also do similar grind attacks in later rounds of combat. Huge pile of high toughness high armor save wounds etc. Its grind attacks can only be executed in the friendly Movement phase. That is, if it generates Steam Points. In the opponent's CC phase, the Steam Tank has a single WS3 S3 Attack from the Engineer - other than that it does nothing. Admittedly, it is much better than in the 7th edition, where it turned into a useless pile of junk, once it had suffered 4 Wounds. Agreed but it doesn't need the attacks to do it's job. They are just a bonus that gets it a lucky break test from time to time as the unit whittles down. Once it pins a unit in combat that unit is essentially out of the game. 'That front line combat brick you were pushing across the board at my steel legion/gunline you don't get to play with them anymore.' Definitely tops my 8th ed annoyance list.
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