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Post by livewaaaaagh on Nov 25, 2018 17:02:57 GMT
Today, we're starting a new series: We're going to go army by army, once a week and talking abotu the unit that when you see it on the other side (your opponent's), you immediately go "well,... great. How do I deal with this now". Yes, we're talking those Witch Elf/ Cauldron combos, Savage Orc Big'un + Shrunken Head combos, etc.
For the very first edition, we have to go with the humies, the manlings, ... the EMPIRE!
What unit, hero or combination of items can they field that make you go "oh.. snap".
Is it a Steam Tank? Or is it.. DOUBLE Steam Tank? Demigryphs?
Comment below with the answer and then, using your main army, let us know how YOU would deal it/plan for it.
Example:
Steam Tank - as a Dwarf player, I'd bring cannons!
Ready? go!
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Post by askaval30 on Nov 26, 2018 13:19:38 GMT
hmmmm, Empire is a tough one as none of their units taken individually would give me much to worry about... they are all about the synnergy.
however if I had to pick one it would probably be the Hellblaster volley gun with attached Engineer. there's not much that can face that amount of S5 AP shots with impunity, and it does force some rethinking of positioning.
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Post by KevinC on Nov 26, 2018 13:28:17 GMT
Empire is easy - multiple cannons. If the Empire player has a single cannon, they are a gentlemen. If they have 2, 3+ it's rough. Steam Tanks I don't mind so much, they are tough units but I've fought them so often, I'm use to dealing with them.
Multiple cannons are really powerful, this will be my answer for Empire, Ogres, and Daemons (not Dwarfs and Skaven though!).
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Post by knoffles on Nov 26, 2018 13:34:00 GMT
Have to agree that the units aren’t that scary, even the hellblaster at only 24” range isn’t too bad. For me it’s the profusion of 1+ armour saves that I find somewhat challenging (depending on what I take of course) and the dwarf like number of cannons that appear in their lists.
To turn this around I’ll always give an opponent +1 if they bring flagellents as they are amazing fun.
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Post by mottdon on Nov 26, 2018 14:35:52 GMT
My #1 for Empire is dual HBVGs (with attached Engineers), positioned at 1/3 and 2/3 places on the field. There's really no hiding from that, unless you simply sit on your back line the entire game. HBVGs can be an absolute nightmare. In my last Empire game, I took one HBVG and in one round of shooting, it took out 22 Dryads that were advancing on it. With that sizable 30-strong unit of Dryads gone, the rest crumbled. It can wreck the strongest of units, quickly. Put two on the table....
Now, for how to beat them, you simply have to swarm them with cheap chaff units. For example, take multiple units of Wolf Riders and Goblin Cowboys on Wolves. Something will get through, and your game-winning blocks will probably be left alone until they can do what they do and get stuck in where you want them.
My #2 for the Empire is multiple units of 4-strong Demigryphs. Maybe not the strongest unit when compared to other armies, but definitely a unit you don't want to get caught in a solo combat. They can churn out damage, have armor piercing, stomp, and have good toughness and high armor saves. If you see multiple units of these guys pushing up either flank, you need hit those guys turn one and weaken them however possible. If you can manage to get them down to 1 or 2 models, then you will push them into a supportive role rather than a main hammer unit.
Cannons are always certainly powerful, but only really a danger to those big monsters, chariots or lone characters. Most people in 8th either bring massive units of infantry, or artillery of their own - which simply turn into a shoot-out with each other.
Steam Tanks are a threat as well, but more from the approach that it can tie-up the unit that you simply don't want to deal with, all game. They are tough and have great armor. Their attacking isn't phenomenal and they can only get half as many chances to attack in CC as their opponent does. Then there's the misfire opportunities. If you can manage to put 4-5 wounds on it, then you've probably got it beat. The only thing to look out for when it gets down to that point, watch out for Kamikaze Stank Engineers. If they do like I do, they'll push roll for the maximum number of Steam Points in order to try and blow the tank up in their opponent's face, taking out as many with them as possible when they go down. If they don't blow up, then they just have a ton of Steam Points to do damage with!
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Post by lordmuffin on Nov 26, 2018 15:33:46 GMT
I find that empire units are often balanced and fair- at higher points levels. Redundancy is the key to beating cannons and tanks, and I naturally build redundancies into my lists wherever I can.
Unfortunately, I have faced 2 hbvg’s at 1250 points from one of my opponents, and the other brings his steam tank at 1000 points. It’s almost impossible to have the resources to deal with one of these threats AND be able to fight the rest of the army. You need luck more than tactics at that point.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2018 19:21:16 GMT
I don't fear the Empire. I just close ranks and steadily march up the field until the cowards are close enough to charge and clear away in glorious close combat; hopefully the Chaos Gods are watching. In all honesty, the steam tank is what gives me the most problems. I don't have cheap throwaway units that can effectively tarpit the thing, and I don't have cannons or reliable ways to strip wounds off at range so that it ends up becoming a little more unreliable. My solution typically is a unit of Dragon Ogres with great weapons. S7 -4 armor save typically neuters the thing. Sometimes I get lucky with the lore of metal, sometimes I'll just sacrifice a character to tie it up all game. HBVG are terrifying for me though. One volley can pretty much eliminate an entire unit of warriors, even the unkillable characters will take wounds from a volley from that thing. Hounds, marauder horsemen, flying monsters, and flying characters are how I deal with those things. As for the rest of the army, I just apply axe to face. High priority targets are the buffwagons though, they can turn ordinary empire infantry into kings of the grind.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Nov 26, 2018 20:06:27 GMT
As for the rest of the army, I just apply axe to face. . That usually tends to work!
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Post by KevinC on Nov 27, 2018 1:17:05 GMT
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Post by mottdon on Nov 27, 2018 13:23:15 GMT
Lol, nobody usually does, but they sure do LOVE to complain about how "broken" their cannons are! Personally, I think that most players just hate LOSING to the Empire, since they obviously think they should be beating them. Warhammer dishonor. Lol!
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Post by strutsagget on Dec 5, 2018 7:29:50 GMT
Never met Empire but I sure read this post to know what to field to make my group cry. Good thing my group loves WM
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 6, 2018 23:29:42 GMT
A mechanical horse riding engineer...it just takes me out of the game.
At our current real world technology level we can't even pull that off!
...they don't even use 'magic' to explain the durn thing.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Dec 6, 2018 23:40:09 GMT
A mechanical horse riding engineer...it just takes me out of the game. At our current real world technology level we can't even pull that off! ...they don't even use 'magic' to explain the durn thing. Not a steampunk fan, I take it?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 6, 2018 23:55:06 GMT
A mechanical horse riding engineer...it just takes me out of the game. At our current real world technology level we can't even pull that off! ...they don't even use 'magic' to explain the durn thing. Not a steampunk fan, I take it? Not particularly I love Chaos Dwarfs however.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Dec 6, 2018 23:59:04 GMT
Not a steampunk fan, I take it? Not particularly I love Chaos Dwarfs however.
As for not being able to make it work, I suggest looking up DaVinci's clockwork lion.
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