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Post by KevinC on Feb 16, 2016 15:54:39 GMT
Finally! The second draft of the Stormcast Enteral army list for 8th Edition WFB.
All the current models are now in the army list. Note there are many subtle changes from the first draft throughout the list, so if you have been playing with the first draft pay special attention when reading the rules. A big note: the Immune to Psychology special rule has been removed as standard Stormcast Eternal rule. Having a pretty high LD and Stubborn seems good enough.
As always, please post your comments, opinions, and play test results.
Thanks!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 17, 2016 1:21:41 GMT
Finally! The second draft of the Stormcast Enteral army list for 8th Edition WFB. All the current models are now in the army list. Note there are many subtle changes from the first draft throughout the list, so if you have been playing with the first draft pay special attention when reading the rules. A big note: the Immune to Psychology special rule has been removed as standard Stormcast Eternal rule. Having a pretty high LD and Stubborn seems good enough. As always, please post your comments, opinions, and play test results. Thanks! Download the PDF file here: View AttachmentGreat work. I look forward to trying this. |
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Post by dannytee on Feb 20, 2016 12:20:44 GMT
Cool stuff as always. Here are my comments.
With the Riders of the Storm special rule there should be text about what happens if the unit can't be placed in a legal formation. This could happen if the champion scatters to an area between multiple units and/or impassible terrain. It is possible that the champion could fit with 1" separation, so per the rule would go there but rest of the unit could not legally form up around him. There should also be text about what happens if the champion scatters off of the table.
For the Lord-Celestant on Dracoth I think the 210 points additional it costs to mount the Lord-Celestant on the Dracoth is too much. In addition the weapon upgrades also become more expensive (I get why but this just adds additional to the cost of upgrading). You are +1 S, W, T & A. You also get +2 AS, added M, stomp and the impact hits. But this is still a lot of points. Also, it seems to me the Dracoth would add more than 1 attack to the profile.
On the Lord-Castellant I feel that lore of light would also be appropriate as a second lore option.
For the Lord-Relictor what is the background story for these guys? I see the lore of death is a option for them which seems strange to me given the army background. But maybe there is a reason for this. As I mention for the Lord-Castellant it would seem like heavens and light would be the most appropriate.
For the Stormcast Liberators and Judicators the unit size is 5+. I think 3+ would be fine. Most other monstrous infantry in the game is 3+ unit size and many of them are cheaper.
I like the Gryphounds. The army needed a cheap option to get some extra bodies.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 26, 2016 4:57:57 GMT
Huzzah! Finally got to sample these rules. Last night i GM'd a quick battle which featured 6 of my Stormcast Liberators using these rules.
For this battle my mate wanted to split the 6 and used 2 units of 3, 1 with champion. It was only today when i glanced at the rules that I realised in these draft rules have 5+ liberators per unit. Last night we just looked at the 40mm bases and assumed 3+ like all other 40mm based units.
So some feedback from what happenned.
First of all characterwise i really felt the rules captured the elite nature of the Liberators. There was actually a moment where 2 Liberators (unit with champion) charged and popped a full health Soul Grinder in 1 round of combat so a most impressive debut! The Hatred for Chaos is very characterful and made a huge difference in this combat. The Liberator and Liberator champion did 2 wounds to the Soul Grinder in combat (rerolls to wound is huge!) and flukily due to the 5+ ward save survived the return attacks completely unscathed. One terrible instability roll later and the Liberators claimed their first scalp. These 2 brave warriors went on to defeat and break a unit of 13 Corrupted High Elf archers. This matchup in particular seemed good for the Liberators as their T4 and double save meant they shrugged off the elven attacks for only 1 wound. Earlier on in the battle also both Liberator units were barely scratched by the small Strength 3 shooting attacks the elves could muster. The 1 Liberator that went down to shooting went down courtesy of a bolt thrower bolt.
I will say that due to the size of the Liberators miniatures/bases on first play we found it hard to remember that they are supposed to be thunderstomped.
The other unit of 3 liberators also performed well and survived till the end of the battle locked in combat with a monster. Imo their rerolls to wound make them quote effective vs T5 monsters so long as the monsters dont have a great save.
Across the board for the Stormcast due to their stats and abilities the champion upgrade seems like a very good choice for all units.
During the battle the Stormcast certainly felt like heaven sent Chaos haters.
Of note both units manages to avoid the 24 strong bloodletter unit which no doubt would have caused them huge problems with the killing blow.
Vs Monsters a unit of 3 Liberators pumping out 9 attacks rerollong to wound will do in a lot of the lower tier monsters.
So first playtest for the Liberators gives these draft rules a solid thumbs up! Both my mates enjoyed them on the battlefield and felt the rules were fun and fair which is all you cam really ask for.
I need to base my unit of 3 Retributors/Paladins but then i am looking forwards to seeing them in action alongside the Liberators.
Highly recommended!
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Post by KevinC on Mar 26, 2016 16:24:42 GMT
Thanks for the feedback grandmaster,
Some thoughts:
• Because they are on 40mm bases, it is easy to forget that they are still only Infantry, which should be a weakness for them.
• I made them 5+ unit size for two reasons: 1. The new Chaos Infantry units from the End Times books on 40mm bases are 5+ unit size. 2. I feel that a 5+ unit size balances them out better. For example, two units of 3 Liberators are very good choices, and extremely powerful. Where a unit of 5 or 6 is a bit more challenging to use correctly. Still not set on unit size though...
Regarding saves, I am considering removing the ward save and replacing with MR 2 or 3. Any thoughts to this?
Thanks!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 27, 2016 3:04:44 GMT
Thanks for the feedback grandmaster, Some thoughts: • Because they are on 40mm bases, it is easy to forget that they are still only Infantry, which should be a weakness for them. • I made them 5+ unit size for two reasons: 1. The new Chaos Infantry units from the End Times books on 40mm bases are 5+ unit size. 2. I feel that a 5+ unit size balances them out better. For example, two units of 3 Liberators are very good choices, and extremely powerful. Where a unit of 5 or 6 is a bit more challenging to use correctly. Still not set on unit size though... Regarding saves, I am considering removing the ward save and replacing with MR 2 or 3. Any thoughts to this? Thanks! I like the 5+ ward save across the board. It's very easy to remember and fits the background (Daemons of Sigmar). For the expensive Stormcast it is their only protection from killing blow and high strength Thunderstomps so i feel they need it. MR isnt very powerful and hit and miss in 8th so i would rather they kept the ward save and high points cost you have given them. Even though they performed very well in the game my friends played there were no complaints about them being OP with the ward save. Without it a 55 point Stormcast would get skewered too easily by cheaper dwarf and goblin bolt throwers and template weapons would be too powerful vs them imo. I think the 5+ ward save you have given them is spot on. Any plans to include the new Stormcast 'Extremis' in future/seperate updates? |
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Post by KevinC on Mar 27, 2016 3:15:09 GMT
Thanks for the feedback grandmaster, Some thoughts: • Because they are on 40mm bases, it is easy to forget that they are still only Infantry, which should be a weakness for them. • I made them 5+ unit size for two reasons: 1. The new Chaos Infantry units from the End Times books on 40mm bases are 5+ unit size. 2. I feel that a 5+ unit size balances them out better. For example, two units of 3 Liberators are very good choices, and extremely powerful. Where a unit of 5 or 6 is a bit more challenging to use correctly. Still not set on unit size though... Regarding saves, I am considering removing the ward save and replacing with MR 2 or 3. Any thoughts to this? Thanks! I like the 5+ ward save across the board. It's very easy to remember and fits the background (Daemons of Sigmar). For the expensive Stormcast it is their only protection from killing blow and high strength Thunderstomps so i feel they need it. MR isnt very powerful and hit and miss in 8th so i would rather they kept the ward save and high points cost you have given them. Even though they performed very well in the game my friends played there were no complaints about them being OP with the ward save. Without it a 55 point Stormcast would get skewered too easily by cheaper dwarf and goblin bolt throwers and template weapons would be too powerful vs them imo. I think the 5+ ward save you have given them is spot on. Any plans to include the new Stormcast 'Extremis' in future/seperate updates? --------Yes, they will be in the next draft! Thanks for the comments. |
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Post by dannytee on Mar 27, 2016 23:39:30 GMT
Regarding saves, I am considering removing the ward save and replacing with MR 2 or 3. Any thoughts to this? I think the ward save fits their background well and should be kept. |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 2, 2016 4:01:28 GMT
Had a battle last night where using a Chaos Alliance i faced a force which included my unit of 6 Liberators with Champion. This time my opponent used the full unit of 6 together. He was using them to guard a far flank and i knew i needed to take them out early for my battle plan to work. They killed an Ancestral guardian for no damage before it got to strike then overran into a Crystal Golem. Here i decided that to eliminate them i needed to use overwhelming force so charged their front with 650 points of Bloodletters and a Nurgle Daemon Prince while they were locked in place by the Golem. Due to base sizes i could only get 7 bloodletter attacks at them but over 2 rounds of combat the bloodletters killing blowed 2 and did another couple wounds. The Liberators killed a total of 6 bloodletters and wounded the Daemon Prince before the 2 remaining failed their stubborn break test and were run down after 2 rounds of combat. Despite overwhelming odds we feel they performed solidly and had they passed their break test would have set the bloodletters up for a nice charge. This time i remembered they were stompable and the Stomp from the Crystal golem and Thunderstomp from the Daemon Prince were a big factor in getting their wounds down. I felt like they were characterful and fun to face and enjoyed killing them  |
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Post by KevinC on Apr 3, 2016 1:39:04 GMT
Great thanks for the report!
Any further thoughts about unit size 5+ vs 3+?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 3, 2016 3:34:24 GMT
Great thanks for the report! Any further thoughts about unit size 5+ vs 3+? I think they should have 3+ as their unit size option. It gives them more tactical amd strategic options and fits their super elite nature. Stormcast for example dont really have fast cav or artillery and being able to field units of 3 + gives them more options to deal with this. The final argument i would make in favour of Stormcast having a unit size of 3+ is the cost of the Eternals themselves. Liberators are the cheapest at 55 points so a 3 man Core unit of them is still 165 points which is already significantly more points than the minimum sized core unit of most other armies. If someone was to try and make a pure Stormcast army list having a unit size of 3+ makes list building to a points level easier. A 5+ unit size makes the cheapest Liberator unit over 250 points which is the cost of a monster. I dont feel 3 man units are too powerful an option for them as they have their drawbacks. In my last game for example if the unit had been 3 man rather than 6 man they would have been swept in a single round of combat so i feel larger units would still be taken but the additional options/flexibility would benefit the Stormcast. Just my 2c |
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