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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 16, 2019 11:53:05 GMT
I am sat in a community that only plays T9A, only 2 other people in my group of about 25 people plays 8th ed. And they've all been bitten by the "community driven balancing" of T9A. 1 or 2 of them never actually played warhammer at all, and another read all about warhammer growing up, but had no one to play until he moved to my city and by then T9A was the game.
I am not a fan of T9A, as it stomps all over the epicness and randomness that I've been "raised on". I've been playing warhammer since the dwindling days of 4th ed, but 5th ed really.
I'm super excited about TOW(™) coming in, ofc we don't know the shape of things yet, but I'm happy to get more games of 8th in, in atticipation!
The other guys who play T9A are in a weird place, as the game they now love is essentially under threat - a kind of shelf life has suddenly been given to the game. A use-by date, if you will. Some of them don't trust gw to make a balanced game (the emphasis is on balance with them). So they are not as excited as I am, and 2-3 others in the group.
I think it'll be interesting how this effects the global T9A community. That game was developed in the shadow of WFB, filling the gap GW left, and now this is going to essentially render it worthless...
I think it spells the end of T9A, but may take time - but they won't be able to compete with the GW content machine. I'm under the impression that balance and rules will fall to the wayside when fun, character and 'the rule of cool' wades in.
I'm really interested in seeing how it all transpires!
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Post by mottdon on Nov 16, 2019 12:27:01 GMT
Hahaha... while I am cautiously pessimistic about how this will turn out, I'm not going to lie, this is awesome. I never thought of this angle! Well here I am, your first band-Wagoner. This was the first place I came when I saw the news. I've been buying up 8th edition stuff for a few years and watching this forum but never got around to playing a game. I could never get anyone at my club interested (Bexley Reapers, Kent, Uk) they all play KoW which is fine, but it's just not the old world! If you've been collecting and watching this site, you're no bandwagon jumper! No, the people to whom I refer are the ones who will come back in 2-3 years when it is (re)released and the YouTubers who were so quick to drop 8th content, proclaiming that "IT'S DEAD!" Those guys are the ones who are only in it for "likes".
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Post by mottdon on Nov 16, 2019 12:44:21 GMT
Yeah, DiscoQing, this will be -dare I say it- the "End Times" for T9A. There is simply no way those guys can keep up with the GW engine. There will be new stories, characters and units (probably - how else are they gonna sell it?) that are going to use the 30 year precedent set before them and sell to the vast majority of people wanting to play. There may be a few hold-outs (much as we were here) but they will be few and far between.
The only thing that could change that outcome is if this version coming is a real stink-bomb. With what they already have to build upon, I don't see that happening. AoS was a completely new game that has had it's time to develop new armies, characters, story and setting. If I'm correct, that build-up is why we've had to wait these past five years for this news about our game coming back. They were ensuring the success of AoS. Maybe they planned to bring back 8th all along. I doubt it, but seeing the loyalists (like ourselves) support and success of games like Total War, they can't ignore that huge cash pile sitting there waiting for them to pick it up.
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Post by sedge on Nov 16, 2019 13:21:56 GMT
Agreed that T9A is going to massively suffer from this. There'll be people who stick with it - those that prioritise balance (though many of them are tournament gamers - and I don't see T9A prospering with that now) or that enjoy the community driven ruleset. But most the players are those that wanted to keep going with a square base WFB-esque game but wanted it to be currently supported. If GW's new WFB is decent, then in a few years the T9A guys will be like we have been - holdouts sticking to a declining game. T9A has never been my thing, but I do pity them a bit as the amount of work put into that project is phenomenal and the long-term reward doesn't look to be there.
What do people think this'll mean for 3rd party manufacturers? There were several getting invested in the 9th age, which I think will lose its appeal now. But there's always a demand for alternative models to GW's offering so maybe Avatars of War for example might see it as being worth releasing their dwarf warriors as they know there'll be an ongoing market for them.
As for people coming back to WFB - I welcome them. I can understand the desire to play a supported game, and if you lack opponents it's hard to keep going with an unsupported one. Whatever GW's new WFB looks like in 3+ years time, let's continue to make this the best place for your WFB needs, because I think we're going to be getting a lot of new interest off that announcement.
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Post by lordofskullpass on Nov 16, 2019 14:54:04 GMT
I am honestly so looking forward to this. I just couldn't believe it when GW posted that Warhammer Fantasy was coming back, I honestly thought they had gone too far down the AoS path of executing all old Fantasy models they didn't need anymore and only keeping the bare minimum for them to even consider returning to good old Fantasy, but certainly the success of the Warhammer Total War franchise, coupled with the efforts of stalwarts like us, have convinced them to make up for their mistake. No more having to scrounge around for square bases, or needing to buy boxes of Fantasy models I was looking for as soon as I spot them in independent shops!
The only concerns I have about this new edition are that: 1. GW try to give it the 8th Edition 40K treatment in terms of rules. To be honest this doesn't worry me that much as the ruleset isn't the worst thing about 8th Edition 40K (the heightening Imperium vs Chaos obsession, the Lords of War mechanic obliterating small games and the dreadful lore progressions they added are the worst things), but it would still be a nuisance. However, as they seem to be marketing the new Fantasy edition as 'The Horus Heresy' of AoS, and the Horus Heresy still uses the old 6th-7th Edition 40K rules, I'm hoping GW will base the new Edition on the past Fantasy editions. 2. GW treat it in the same way as the Horus Heresy, Middle Earth and the Specialist Games and bring out most new releases via Forge World, with only the bare minimum as plastic. This would be the nastiest thing they could ever do to it. However, Fantasy was always mainstream GW rather than Forge World in the past (as opposed to the Horus Heresy which was mainly Forge World) and surely such a move would cause too much of a backlash in the fanbase?
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Post by saniles on Nov 16, 2019 15:17:30 GMT
I am sat in a community that only plays T9A, only 2 other people in my group of about 25 people plays 8th ed. And they've all been bitten by the "community driven balancing" of T9A. 1 or 2 of them never actually played warhammer at all, and another read all about warhammer growing up, but had no one to play until he moved to my city and by then T9A was the game. I am not a fan of T9A, as it stomps all over the epicness and randomness that I've been "raised on". I've been playing warhammer since the dwindling days of 4th ed, but 5th ed really. I'm super excited about TOW(™) coming in, ofc we don't know the shape of things yet, but I'm happy to get more games of 8th in, in atticipation! The other guys who play T9A are in a weird place, as the game they now love is essentially under threat - a kind of shelf life has suddenly been given to the game. A use-by date, if you will. Some of them don't trust gw to make a balanced game (the emphasis is on balance with them). So they are not as excited as I am, and 2-3 others in the group. I think it'll be interesting how this effects the global T9A community. That game was developed in the shadow of WFB, filling the gap GW left, and now this is going to essentially render it worthless... I think it spells the end of T9A, but may take time - but they won't be able to compete with the GW content machine. I'm under the impression that balance and rules will fall to the wayside when fun, character and 'the rule of cool' wades in. I'm really interested in seeing how it all transpires! So I think it spurs some fire for groups like this. If they don’t accelerate the output of models and contents they will lose to GW. I personally like some of the AOW models, although I haven’t bought any yet. Their stuff looks good on the site. Hopefully they will keep gettin after it and making models cause I wants cheaper and still awesome looking Longbeards even though I don’t play their game
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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 16, 2019 15:23:38 GMT
Those companies will make models for games anyway. Aow were making dwarfs, dark elves and warriors during 8th ed, so I wouldn't worry about a variety of 3rd party companies making alternative models.
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Post by gregr on Nov 16, 2019 16:53:18 GMT
I'm as excited for this as everyone else is!
My thoughts below (although they're likely to be wrong!):
1. The 3+ years timescale is unlikely to be that long, unless all the developers are on other impending projects. I think it'll be 2 years but they want to manage expectations a little bit and not turn people off their other ranges.
2. I think they'll just put square bases in the majority of the boxes that are currently out. I don't see them re-imagining the bulk of their sets as itll be too costly for what could be a specialist game.
3. They'll start to bring back some the out of production sets along with AoS rules, such as Empire Knights, and as they don't do vanilla any more, with variants for White Wolves etc so they can bump the prices up.
4. There will be a Forge World range. But,I imagine it'll be resurrection of the Regiments of Renown like Mananns Blades etc and they'll probably have more of a centralised role in the game system. Again, named units are more expensive and therefore more appealing to them as a producer and more fluff appeal for gamers. I think that they'll also release some of the large special characters through FW,such as a successor Dwarf High King atop a throne.
Just my initial musings so we will have to see!
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Post by saniles on Nov 16, 2019 16:57:18 GMT
So they will still have the molds and stuff for the old lines, so they might just start with those, I don’t see them using the current AOS stuff and suddenly calling it “old world” because it simply doesn’t work in the old lore
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Post by gregr on Nov 16, 2019 16:59:57 GMT
No of course not. But I think we will see revamped regiment boxes well before 3 years. Probably in sets of 16 or 20 again for around the £25 mark. The plastics will be an easy way to start generating hype again
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Post by saniles on Nov 16, 2019 17:03:57 GMT
I can agree with that. Reuse the 8th edition sets that are still good and detailed in plastics and start new regiments that will replace really old sculpts like... night runners as an example or plague monks which are a little clunky compared to the more recent stuff
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Post by gregr on Nov 16, 2019 17:08:48 GMT
Yeah. I think Orcs and the other 25mm based units will be the first ones to be revisited so they actually fit on the bases and rank up!
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Post by sedge on Nov 16, 2019 17:10:21 GMT
So they will still have the molds and stuff for the old lines, so they might just start with those, I don’t see them using the current AOS stuff and suddenly calling it “old world” because it simply doesn’t work in the old lore Some bits work. I'd imagine for example that the new Night Goblin stuff will get ported across (e.g. Squig Hoppers with armour + lances, possibly some of the ghostly undead or bigger orcs too, Tzaangors and so on). I think it also gives them a big incentive to redo crappy old kits that work in the AoS lore too (such as the Skaven ones you mentioned above), which can only be good for us - so long as they rank up!
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Post by saniles on Nov 16, 2019 17:10:27 GMT
BLOrcs, SOrcs, Glade Guard, Stormvermin, the list goes on!
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Post by gregr on Nov 16, 2019 17:15:03 GMT
But if the rules are a rehash of 8th, surely first army books should be Skaven and Beastmen as races not cut but without dedicated 8th ed books?
Although Empire will likely to be the first re-released race. Humans are the easiest to sell and are often the entry point for new gamers.
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