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Post by sedge on Apr 13, 2021 10:34:28 GMT
It feels like there may be a bit of a cycle in GW's rules development - their improving manufacturing techniques allow them to construct models they couldn't do so before (massive centrepiece models - e.g. your Nagashes for WFB, Imperial Knights for 40k) or new types of models (40k flyers from a few years ago being the best example, but also multi-part plastic kits making mass infantry hordes more accessible/desirable than their monopose/metal forebears), they get wedged into a current rules edition but fit poorly, a new edition launches which fits those types of models in more seamlessly but overcomplicates things, so it's followed up by another new edition which aims to simplify & streamline gameplay. Then they find a new type of kit they can release and the cycle starts anew. It's been more visible in 40k, as that's their longest-running supported game. If AOS hadn't launched, WFB would have needed a 9th edition to properly incorporate the Nagashes, Glottkins, Mortachs and so on into the game, and rebalanced accordingly; the End Times rules were only a bodged fix (e.g. lack of consistency between ridden monster profiles in 8th edition books and End Times books). Chess would have needed a rebalancing if they introduced Queens mounted on Dragons that could fly over occupied squares
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Post by mottdon on Apr 13, 2021 11:36:15 GMT
You're talking about escalation, Sedge. That's something that has (and probably always will) plagued the game. Honestly, I don't know how that'd be avoided, unless GW gives up on making money. So....
But, I agree with the analysis.
If players are unwilling to adapt to new rules and models, then ignore them and keep playing where you are. If something comes out that you just LOVE, then incorporate it. It seems pretty simple to me. Probably a good idea to write down your rules, imo, but that's not hard to do.
For example, KevinC wrote a "fix" for Tomb Kings a while back, which mostly focused on some of the army weaknesses. I printed it off and stuck it in my book. It's part of my army now. Simple. If my opponent doesn't like the rules, I don't use them. Simple.
I've been doing things like that ever since ET. I've added a unit of the Monstrous Cavalry (BIG Boar Riders) to my O&G from the AoS additions because O&G didn't have anything like that in their army. I wrote rules for them, posted them here for feedback, and boom, new addition.
Did I have to write a new edition for the game? No. Simple houserule. Rules don't have to be accepted by the masses to work, just two players.
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Post by Mr Blank on Apr 14, 2021 17:14:29 GMT
Seems like the consensus is everyone wants to stick to 8th edition, good to see people living up to this site's brand identity! Personally I'm in no way bored of 8th or desperate for rule changes but then I've probably only played about 15 games of it
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Post by knoffles on Apr 16, 2021 8:00:22 GMT
Don’t get me wrong 8th is my favourite edition by far from a rules point of view but I like to try out new games/versions. I did try KOW etc but it didn’t appeal to me. I still maintain that Advanced Heroquest is the best iteration of the GW dungeon crawlers and that’s over 30 years old... 8th is a child in comparison 😂
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 17, 2021 17:06:06 GMT
You played 3rd Ed KoW?
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Post by vulcan on Apr 17, 2021 23:08:09 GMT
Did they make any really radical changes? Or is it 2nd with a few tweaks?
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 17, 2021 23:28:22 GMT
A lot of the complaints of kow were directed towards the "same-i-ness" of the units - along with few customisations, the lack of individuality of the armies and the lack of magic.
All of these issues have been addressed in 3rd Ed - definitely worth a revisit. It isn't just a few tweaks 😊
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Post by vulcan on Apr 17, 2021 23:56:07 GMT
A lot of the complaints of kow were directed towards the "same-i-ness" of the units - along with few customisations, the lack of individuality of the armies and the lack of magic. All of these issues have been addressed in 3rd Ed - definitely worth a revisit. It isn't just a few tweaks 😊 Anywhere I can see a summary of those changes, or do I need to shell out for the rules to see it?
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 18, 2021 0:28:18 GMT
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Post by knoffles on Apr 18, 2021 8:10:28 GMT
I played 2nd Ed KOW. I did pick up the 3rd ed rules but am yet to get a game in. It was mainly due to the ‘butchering’ (ok strong words, perhaps genericasizing - making up words now) of the herd (Beastmen) list in the new unchartered empires. I was massively disappointed by the way a lot of the lists were rebalanced and those in the book became more like sub lists of those in the main book, losing their flavour. Although I enjoyed the game, I wasn’t that invested in it so just switched back my limited play time to 8th. I do agree that they did add more options, especially spells and items to give lists more uniqueness
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Post by DiscoQing on Apr 18, 2021 9:19:59 GMT
8th is better, ofc - haha
We just play kow every now and then. Bristol has a pretty big kow scene and is close by 😊
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Post by knoffles on Apr 18, 2021 10:05:49 GMT
8th is better, ofc - haha We just play kow every now and then. Bristol has a pretty big kow scene and is close by 😊 KOW definitely picked up in London too off the back of the old world being destroyed. I know 3 of the main clubs in South and SE London that have mainly converted to it. The main central London one leant heavily to T9A. AOS seems to be less popular at the club level here (though still played)
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Post by Golgfag on Apr 18, 2021 13:19:21 GMT
How easy is it to play current KoW with Warhammer armies?
As not really interested in other fantasy settings but open minded to alternative rulesets if not too much hassle to use models collected for WFB purposes, nice to mix things up.
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Post by KevinC on Apr 18, 2021 17:16:15 GMT
How easy is it to play current KoW with Warhammer armies? As not really interested in other fantasy settings but open minded to alternative rulesets if not too much hassle to use models collected for WFB purposes, nice to mix things up. -------------You can easily use a WFB army in Kings of War. The base sizes are pretty much the same. They even have hordes. My biggest issue with the game is how many players build their armies. Building entire armies of dioramas have become the standard in that game, and I just don't like seeing that. One unit might be cool, but entire armies?!
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Post by Golgfag on Apr 18, 2021 17:37:36 GMT
How easy is it to play current KoW with Warhammer armies? As not really interested in other fantasy settings but open minded to alternative rulesets if not too much hassle to use models collected for WFB purposes, nice to mix things up. -------------You can easily use a WFB army in Kings of War. The base sizes are pretty much the same. They even have hordes. My biggest issue with the game is how many players build their armies. Building entire armies of dioramas have become the standard in that game, and I just don't like seeing that. One unit might be cool, but entire armies?! Agreed on that, also I enjoy using my WFB models in a skirmish game called Saga Age of Magic so have no desire to group base. I may give it a go sometime, as I was curious as I remember when 3rd edition KoW was released there was talk that the army lists were being changed to be less friendly to WFB armies, so they could focus on their own IP, which is understandable but for me only interested in the Warhammer World that kills it off as a game i would be interested in.
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