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Post by johngg on Jun 2, 2021 12:35:47 GMT
First off I was unsure if this was supposed to go here or in the tactica section but as it came up during my army build phase I'm putting it here.
I'm new to Daemons and I'm not an uber magic user, counting Khorne heavy Warriors of Chaos armies and a nil magic Hellebron army as my main stays you can kind guess my usual playstyle.
I'm entering a tournament in September (Cardiff Crusade) and I wanted a different kind of challenge. We're using 50% Lords/Heroes and that's why I'm considering Kairos, otherwise It'd be a kitted out Wizard-D-Prince of course. I'm running a mono Tzeentch list for fluff reasons. I'm not bothered about winning the tournament so uber optimisation is not my thing, but I do t want to acquit myself with a reasonable standard of pluck and vigour courage as Any Englishman going to Wales should always do.
Ok on to the main topic, what to pick for Kairos's spells. My overriding thoughts are to compliment the Tzeentch deck which is almost all direct damage and magic missiles. So I'm looking for buff's and other quirky things. I've got three types of spell, Big hitters, cheap sneaky attacks and tricks, you'll see what I mean below;
HEAD ONE
The Caress of Laniph - The first of the cheap sneaky attacks which will force a scroll or dispel dice, after all NO ONE wants their spongy wizard in peril, and with Fly I can be threatening enemy wizards T1. [its possible, perhaps not advisable, but hey]
Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma - VERY cheap and I'm taking this only really for the attribute. Its a non offensive spell which should fly under the radar but gives me the opportunity to swap out Kiaros for a more smashy DP
Pit of Shades - An obvious choice and is part of a trio of BIG spells. Cant be ignored.
Fulminating Flame Cage - Another trick, and hopefully will take a toll on large blocks of light/medium infantry, Fast cav and the like. Also plays mind games with the oppo's crucial movement phase.
HEAD TWO
Final transmutation - The second of the Big hitters. [sniping a Slann with this would be a LIFE GOAL]
The Dwellers Below - Third of the big hitters
Comet of Cassandora - one of the trick spells, Is great for castled Artillery or otherwise hard to get at things.
Plague of Rust - A cheap trick way of chipping off armour points from high armour targets which I'm going to struggle against.
Ok so there are my ideas. When replying I'd appreciate if you stated what should be swapped out for what rather than simply what is good. Therefore I can understand the thinking.
Thanks!
GG
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 2, 2021 15:14:05 GMT
What is the tourney rules for fate-weaver?
Do you have to decide in advance or can you choose spells during spell generation in the beginning of games?
What you choose can be match depending.
Personally I would choose less nuke spells. You will only need one. What you need is a lot of cheap spells to maximize the number of spells thrown.
Also look at thing being flaming as you will need to mitigate the regen rules given by lore of tzentch.
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Post by johngg on Jun 2, 2021 16:37:37 GMT
What is the tourney rules for fate-weaver? Do you have to decide in advance or can you choose spells during spell generation in the beginning of games? What you choose can be match depending. Personally I would choose less nuke spells. You will only need one. What you need is a lot of cheap spells to maximize the number of spells thrown. Also look at thing being flaming as you will need to mitigate the regen rules given by lore of tzentch. Many thanks Chap, I'm going to pick the spells now so I can playtest and get used to them, so basically I'm trying for an all-comers stance. As for The Big Nuke spells, I really need one per head and the idea behind 2 on one head is the first would get scrolled or dispelled leaving the second one to go through. That's my thought anyway.. <shrug> Flaming / Regen; yes I had overlooked that and now looking to squeeze in the Banner of Eternal Flame on to a Horror Horde. strutsagget If I were to swap out spells, what would you suggest and for what? |
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Post by jukei on Jun 2, 2021 18:09:56 GMT
HEAD ONEThe Caress of Laniph - The first of the cheap sneaky attacks which will force a scroll or dispel dice, after all NO ONE wants their spongy wizard in peril, and with Fly I can be threatening enemy wizards T1. [its possible, perhaps not advisable, but hey] Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma - VERY cheap and I'm taking this only really for the attribute. Its a non offensive spell which should fly under the radar but gives me the opportunity to swap out Kiaros for a more smashy DP Pit of Shades - An obvious choice and is part of a trio of BIG spells. Cant be ignored. Fulminating Flame Cage - Another trick, and hopefully will take a toll on large blocks of light/medium infantry, Fast cav and the like. Also plays mind games with the oppo's crucial movement phase. HEAD TWOFinal transmutation - The second of the Big hitters. [sniping a Slann with this would be a LIFE GOAL] The Dwellers Below - Third of the big hitters Comet of Cassandora - one of the trick spells, Is great for castled Artillery or otherwise hard to get at things. Plague of Rust - A cheap trick way of chipping off armour points from high armour targets which I'm going to struggle against. Ok so there are my ideas. When replying I'd appreciate if you stated what should be swapped out for what rather than simply what is good. Therefore I can understand the thinking. Thanks! GG - I love it The Dwellers Below - if you have enough dices try to cast in one magic phase final trasmutation and after try to cast this spell ..... The opponent will use a dispel scroll for sure.
Comet of Cassandora - great one !!! Plague of Rust - it Will help your horrors once they will be in melee. Great choises !!! (Maybe you can also consider Pha 's protection instead of Plague of rust, in order to cast it on the other lord and protect him in the first part of the game against War machines ....) |
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Post by jukei on Jun 2, 2021 18:33:25 GMT
HEAD ONEThe Caress of Laniph - The first of the cheap sneaky attacks which will force a scroll or dispel dice, after all NO ONE wants their spongy wizard in peril, and with Fly I can be threatening enemy wizards T1. [its possible, perhaps not advisable, but hey] Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma - VERY cheap and I'm taking this only really for the attribute. Its a non offensive spell which should fly under the radar but gives me the opportunity to swap out Kiaros for a more smashy DP Pit of Shades - An obvious choice and is part of a trio of BIG spells. Cant be ignored. Fulminating Flame Cage - Another trick, and hopefully will take a toll on large blocks of light/medium infantry, Fast cav and the like. Also plays mind games with the oppo's crucial movement phase. This choice are conditioned by your mono tzeentch armylist If you played a mixed God list I would have picked probably different spells btw... Head One Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma you can cast it with one dice and can give your horrors Unit (probably you are going to support them ) a very good help. Wyssan's wildform +1 S +1 T on horrors ...why not? S4 T4 starts to be an interesting stat considering that maybe you can try to support horrors even more with an additional spell ( because I hope you have already forced the opponent to use the dispel scroll in the first turns )
Soulblight I think opponent will try to dispel it always...I don't think he will let it pass. He will use precious dices for dispelling...and so you can try to force something else....
Flaming swords of Rhuin pretty handy and cheap one +1 to wound in shooting and close combat + flaming attacks .I can see as target your flamers ...which will be more effective and will remove regeneration when they shoot. But the main target is your horde of Horrors .They are S3 and the +1 to wound can help a lot. and dont forget To save one last dice for casting treason of tzeentch ....it will be a trick very nice ...to use . I hope it helped. |
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Post by jukei on Jun 2, 2021 18:45:57 GMT
So Use Head TWO in the first part of the game maybe trying to cast even infernal gateway if you have enough dices....
try to be aggressive and force him to use the dispel scroll.
Head ONE in the second phase to provide an effective magic supports to your Units :-)
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Post by johngg on Jun 7, 2021 12:53:04 GMT
So Use Head TWO in the first part of the game maybe trying to cast even infernal gateway if you have enough dices.... try to be aggressive and force him to use the dispel scroll. Head ONE in the second phase to provide an effective magic supports to your Units :-) Ahh ok gotcha, I like the idea of one head being the hammer and the other the support. After all there are plenty of damage spells in the Tzeentch lore. |
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Post by johngg on Jun 8, 2021 19:07:18 GMT
Thanks guys, taken all onboard and have the below revisions, let me know what you think...
HEAD ONE
The Caress of Laniph - Good, because I really want to use this to force the dispel scroll or dice and set up for a big spell later. Fate of Bjuna is arguable better but twice the price. this can be a throw away 1 dice spell.
Melkoth’s Mystifying Miasma - Good
Pit of Shades - Good as i think this is probably the best Nuke spell available to 'Kairo's left head.
Fulminating Flame Cage - Will swap out for, Flaming swords of Rhuin as yes, I see this far better utility on flamers and/or flaming chariots.
HEAD TWO
Final transmutation - Good
Comet of Cassandora - Good
Plague of Rust - Good
The Dwellers Below I'm thinking of swapping for Pha's Protection or Wind Blast. I'm thinking I don't need another Nuke spell and more cheap spells are better. Pha's obviously is a well needed anti cannon spell, and Wind Blast has the potential for shenanigans possibly ruining someone's carefully set up charge.
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Post by Horace on Jun 8, 2021 21:05:04 GMT
Spoilt for choice with Kairos.
Depends how you want to go about playing your list. If you intend on actually fighting you could go with Throne of Vines and Flesh to Stone, then combo it with some nasty spells like Dwellers/Comet/Final Transmutation.
For the other head I would go with Wyssans/Caress/most of the Lore of Shadow - it's all good and great at levelling up combat for you. Pit of Shades is obviously also fantastic!
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Post by strutsagget on Jun 9, 2021 7:02:10 GMT
As kairos has built in all comers I would bring different spells. Thats the strength of the model and picking spells before battle is crippling yourself. Take your time first games. Bring an extra 🍻 to your friend  For instance dwellers really good against low S opponents like elves and skaven. Pit of shades against war machines and dwarfs and lizzies, and other low I opponents. Transmutation of Lead can have it uses but often worse then the other two. Some spells really good if you will be in battle like wyssans and soulblight. Snipe spells of death really good against skaven and other character dependent races. Also I would not underestimate lore of tzeentch spells. At least bring a couple of different spells to choose from |
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Post by Horace on Jun 9, 2021 10:21:13 GMT
I actually quite like the lore of Tzeentch plus you essentially get it for free as a Loremaster on both heads. Kairos is such a beast, that is why I would be tempted to take Throne of Vines. At the very least it draws dispel dice and if the enemy allows it go off you can just start 6 dicing the bigboy spells
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Post by knoffles on Jun 9, 2021 19:21:04 GMT
I’m loving this discussion. I have a big black hole in my knowledge about this character so going to have to look him up now!
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