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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2022 19:10:36 GMT
Does the discipline Focus of Mystery allow the Slann to have the standard 4 spells from a lore + loremaster (High) or just loremaster (High)? Wandering deliberations clearly states ‘instead of generating spells normally’ but there is no such caveat for Focus of Mystery, which makes me think it’s the former. Although that seems incredibly powerful for the points…
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 15, 2022 20:49:31 GMT
No. Unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. The normal rule here is BRB p. 72: "A Wizard with the Loremaster special rule knows all the spells from his chosen lore - he does not need to roll randomly. The lore in question is normally given in brackets as part of the Loremaster special rule. For example, a model with Loremaster (Fire) would know all the spells from the Lore of Fire."
In accordance with that, the Focus of Mystery states that "the Slann Mage-Priest has the Loremaster (Lore of High Magic) special rule." That is his chosen lore - he cannot choose another one. That is precisely why the Wandering Deliberations and Focus of Mystery rules specify that they are mutually exclusive.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2022 8:11:38 GMT
Thanks Fvon. That’s how I feel the rule should be played.
However how does that interpretation interact with the Sphynx scenery rules? Would only a wizard who already knew Death spells benefit from Loremaster?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 16, 2022 8:51:44 GMT
I would say all Wizards will benefit, as is indicated in the description of the Sphynx (BRB p. 130): "If the test is passed, the challenger receives one of the following special rules, determined randomly, for the rest of the game: Devastating Charge, Heroic Killing Blow or Loremaster (Death) - this last one has no benefit to non-Wizards (i.e. only Wizards can actually use the spells!) but that doesn't stop the Sphynx bestowing it inappropriately." That is the difference between list building and battlefield. Requirements for building a legal army list can be and usually are no longer applicable, once the battle has started. When you build your list, your Wizard is allowed only one chosen lore (unless specifically stated otherwise, of course). That does not mean a Wizard could not gain another lore he has not chosen, because of conditions on the battlefield - just as a Wizard even a Loremaster, can lose spells. As it happens, something similar was discussed last year around this time.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2022 8:00:30 GMT
Thanks for clarifying.
Related question - if a Slann has Wandering Deliberations and is within 3" of a Wizard's Tower does he gain loremaster for all 8 lores or, as he didn't choose any lore, does he gain no benefit at all?
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Post by rahotep75 on Oct 17, 2022 18:10:57 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. Related question - if a Slann has Wandering Deliberations and is within 3" of a Wizard's Tower does he gain loremaster for all 8 lores or, as he didn't choose any lore, does he gain no benefit at all? I don’t remember the specific wording, but End Times Khaine magic rules effectively gives Loremaster to all wizards, and I think the example mentions the High Elf Loremaster, who basically has Wandering Deliberations and it explains that he would have Loremaster for all 8 lores. The example may have used a different type of Wizard that can have spells from multiple lores in game (like a Skaven grey seer or kairos fateweaver, but not an empire wizard who can just choose multiple lores) So, there is some basis to show how a wizard tower could work for a wizard with spells from multiple lores.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2022 8:59:43 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. Related question - if a Slann has Wandering Deliberations and is within 3" of a Wizard's Tower does he gain loremaster for all 8 lores or, as he didn't choose any lore, does he gain no benefit at all? I don’t remember the specific wording, but End Times Khaine magic rules effectively gives Loremaster to all wizards, and I think the example mentions the High Elf Loremaster, who basically has Wandering Deliberations and it explains that he would have Loremaster for all 8 lores. The example may have used a different type of Wizard that can have spells from multiple lores in game (like a Skaven grey seer or kairos fateweaver, but not an empire wizard who can just choose multiple lores) So, there is some basis to show how a wizard tower could work for a wizard with spells from multiple lores. Thanks, but instead of giving wizards Loremaster, End Time Khaine changes the rules for spell generation - it explicitly states that you no longer use the rules in the rulebook and know all the spells from your chosen lore or all the spells from each lore that you can use spells from. It then gives a new definition for the Loremaster rule.
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Post by rahotep75 on Oct 19, 2022 17:30:52 GMT
They changed the Loremaster rule in End Times because they basically gave all wizards pre-End Times Loremaster.
And the End Times example specifically mentions how pre-end time Loremaster works for a High Elf Loremaster (who gains spells in the same way as a Slann with Wandering Deliberations).
If you can’t see how that gives an example of a Wizard Tower interacting with Wandering Deliberations, then you are being deliberately obtuse.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 22, 2022 11:27:50 GMT
Thanks for clarifying. Related question - if a Slann has Wandering Deliberations and is within 3" of a Wizard's Tower does he gain loremaster for all 8 lores or, as he didn't choose any lore, does he gain no benefit at all? Not sure, if this answer is still relevant, as the OP seems to have deleted himself. The wording is sufficiently vague to allow both interpretations, although I would tend to the position that he does not gain any benefit.
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