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Post by KevinC on Oct 18, 2021 2:12:51 GMT
Hey all, I've been trying to figure out if this is legal and if I have it correctly: A Goblin Great Shaman (level 3 wizard) + the Wizarding Hat (gives wearer level 2 wizard and may choose spells from any rulebook lore) on a Arachnarok Spider with a Catchweb Shrine (gives Shaman Loremaster (Little Waaagh!)). Does this mean: The Goblin shaman casts spells as a level 3 wizard, but knows 2 spells from the chosen rulebook lore, plus knows all the Spells of Little Waaagh!. Is this correct?? FvonSigmaringen ?? |
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Post by vulcan on Oct 18, 2021 3:24:41 GMT
I think the Wisarding Hat supercedes the normal wizard abilities, but I don't have a rulebook handy to cite the rules.
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 18, 2021 6:05:18 GMT
I am pretty sure you also loose the level 3.
”The wearer is treated as being a Level 2 Wizard who can use a randomly chosen Battle Magic lore. However, he also has the Stupidity special rule.”
WARHAMMER RULEBOOK
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 18, 2021 8:48:29 GMT
What vulcan & strutsagget say. Either advanced > basic rule applies, in which case you have thrown away the points for the Shaman. Or AB > BRB applies, in which case you have paid 100 points to be Stupid. |
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Post by KevinC on Oct 18, 2021 12:37:15 GMT
So he would be level 2 with 2 rulebook spells, but he'd also have access all the Little Waaagh! spells because of the loremaster rule, right?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 18, 2021 13:51:52 GMT
I am afraid not. As strutsagget already quoted: BRB p. 505; "The wearer is treated as being a Level 2 Wizard who can use a randomly chosen Battle Magic lore." |
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Post by KevinC on Oct 18, 2021 15:38:41 GMT
I am afraid not. As strutsagget already quoted: BRB p. 505; "The wearer is treated as being a Level 2 Wizard who can use a randomly chosen Battle Magic lore." -------But the Catchweb upgrade, O&G p. 51, says "A Goblin Great Shaman mounted on a Arachnarok Spider with a Catchweb Spidershrine has the Loremaster (Little Waaagh!) special rule." A Goblin Great Shaman with the Wizarding hat becomes a level 2 Wizard, but he's still a Goblin Great Shaman and so I don't see why the Loremaster (Little Waaagh!) special rule would be negated. The Wizarding Hat does not cancel the rules associated with the Catchweb Spidershrine. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 18, 2021 16:19:48 GMT
It does not cancel the rule, but it conflicts with it. Therefore, Either advanced > basic rule applies, in which case you have thrown away the points for the Shaman. Or AB > BRB applies, in which case you have paid 100 points to be Stupid. |
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 18, 2021 19:11:45 GMT
What fvon tries to say is If you want a loremaster just skip the hat and save 100p? Then you have 1 more level and not the stupid rule. Or have I missed something?
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Post by KevinC on Oct 19, 2021 1:54:14 GMT
Right, but regardless of the opinion of whether or not its worth doing, are you guys saying you don't know the answer? That's what I'm confused about.
My interpretation is that the Goblin Great Shaman becomes Level 2, gains stupidity and has two spells from a random rulebook lore, but also has the Loremaster (Little Waaagh!) and so knows all the Little Waaagh spells in addition to the two other spells provides by the hat.
Is anyone saying that I'm wrong about this?
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Post by Anton on Oct 19, 2021 3:29:53 GMT
My interpretation is that the Goblin Great Shaman becomes Level 2, gains stupidity and has two spells from a random rulebook lore, but also has the Loremaster (Little Waaagh!) and so knows all the Little Waaagh spells in addition to the two other spells provides by the hat. Agreed. There is no conflict between the Spidershrine and the Wizarding Hat, so they both apply. |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 19, 2021 6:51:29 GMT
Unless specifically stated otherwise, normal rules apply. You have to choose one lore to generate spells - you cannot have more than one, unless specifically stated otherwise, which is not the case here. With the Wizarding Hat, you must take one of the lores of Battle Magic; hence, you cannot have any other lore. As it happens, GW confirms this in an FAQ on a related matter.
Vampire Counts AB Official Update Version 1.1, p.1:
Q: If a Vampire or Vampire Lord is unable to choose the Lore of the Vampires as their spell lore (due to the Wizarding Hat for example) but is still the Wizard with the highest Leadership in the army, must he still be the army’s General? (p26)
A: Yes.
[Italics mine]
What is good for the Ghouls is good for the Goblins...
So, of the two options above, option one is correct.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 20, 2021 8:00:49 GMT
To add: note that the Loremaster special rule is not about choosing a lore, but about generating spells of a chosen lore: "A Wizard with the Loremaster special rule knows all the spells from his chosen lore - he does not need to roll randomly" (BRB p. 72). If you have not chosen the lore covered by the Loremaster special rule, the latter will do nothing. Since a Shaman with the Wizarding Hat cannot have Little Waaagh! as his chosen lore, having the Loremaster (Little Waaagh!) special rule has no effect whatsoever.
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