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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 8:09:04 GMT
Hi, this isn't my question, and I already have my interpretation of the how I'd play it... But here goes... -- Player A (Dark Elf) has Fiery Convocation on a unit of theirs from a previous Magic Phase, and has 5 Dispel Dice.
In Player Bs (High Elf) Magic Phase, they have 5 power dice remaining. They State no more spells to cast.
Player A then dispels Fiery Convocation with their 5 Dispel Dice.
Player B then attempts to cast Fiery Convocation again with their 5 Power Dice. -- In my opinion, this is more about player B stating the end of the Magic phase, then backtracking. Poor sportsmanship!
But the rules boil down to...
You can dispel a Remains in play spell at any time in the magic phase.
The magic phase ends as soon as: 1. Active player wizards can't cast any more (broken concentration, no power dice, no more spells left) 2. Active player declares has no more useful spells left (effectively ending the phase because you don't want to cast anything)
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 8:39:37 GMT
Also, spells can trigger at the "end of the magic phase" like moving vortexes, comet coming down, fiery convocation(!).
So plater B declares the end of the phase, so cannot cast anymore - therefore player A can dispel the the remains in Play before it triggers...
Phew! π
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Post by sonofkurnos on Oct 22, 2022 9:26:04 GMT
Well the phases for the magic phase (page 29 of the BRB) state, for the various steps of casting spells -
"Repeat steps 2 through 4 until the casting player cannot cast, or no longer wishes to cast, any more spells"
I would say that a player declaring he doesn't want to cast any more spells fulfills this, and therefore they wouldn't revert back to step 2 'cast', and therefore wouldn't be able to make any further attempts?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 22, 2022 11:38:01 GMT
As sonofkurnos says, once he he has declared that he does not want to cast more spells, the Magic phase ends, and thus he cannot go back and attempt to cast further spells. However, that also applies to dispelling attempts! "Remains in play spells can be dispelled at any point during a subsequent Magic phase" (Italics mine). And since the Magic phase has now ended, neither player can cast or dispel any longer.
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 13:30:14 GMT
As I said further up, the "end of the magic phase" is a step, albeit not mentioned in the BRB; it is mentioned in spells, like Fiery Convocation.
So when Player B declares they're not casting anymore spells, Fiery convocation triggers, and as it's still the magic phase - Player A can attempt to dispel it.
That makes the most sense to me.
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Post by thegoat on Oct 22, 2022 13:34:15 GMT
I agree with FvonSigmaringen. Once the active player says he is done casting, the magic phase ends and so does the opportunity to dispel remains in play spells. If you and your opponent choose to continue the magic phase and allow the final dispel attempt, then it seems fair to also allow the option to cast another spell. But that would all be house rules at the players' discretion.
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Post by thegoat on Oct 22, 2022 13:36:48 GMT
As I said further up, the "end of the magic phase" is a step, albeit not mentioned in the BRB; it is mentioned in spells, like Fiery Convocation. So when Player B declares they're not casting anymore spells, Fiery convocation triggers, and as it's still the magic phase - Player A can attempt to dispel it. That makes the most sense to me. "End of the magic phase" is a pseudo-step (referenced by spells and effects). But it is not a part of the magic phase.
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 13:50:23 GMT
The Spells effects are being resolved at the end of the magic phase, ie not the shooting phase - so it's still the magic phase βΊοΈ
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Post by sonofkurnos on Oct 22, 2022 15:19:18 GMT
The end of the magic phase also isn't the magic phase though... It is the 'end of', the finishing, the ceasing of...where certain effects trigger.
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 15:47:12 GMT
So the effect of Fiery Convocation, Vortexes, Comets etc... Don't take place in the magic phase? But the space between Magic and Shooting?
Somehow, I doubt this.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 22, 2022 16:36:49 GMT
"At the end of the Magic (or any other) phase" is just the pendant to "at the start of the Magic phase." There are various things that may happen at the start of a phase, and (unless, of course, specified otherwise) that means they happen before any of the normal sub-phases. Likewise, something that happens at the end of a phase, happens after all the normal sub-phases. The normal Magic sub-phases are:
1. Roll for Winds of Magic 2. Cast 3. Dispel 4. Spell resolution 5. Next spell
If no further spells are cast, then the normal sub-phases have ended. Some special things may still happen afterwards, but not casting or dispelling.
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Post by thegoat on Oct 22, 2022 16:42:11 GMT
So the effect of Fiery Convocation, Vortexes, Comets etc... Don't take place in the magic phase? But the space between Magic and Shooting? Somehow, I doubt this. So you think the rules intended to allow the dispel of an in play, remains in play spell while denying the opponent the opportunity to cast it again while they have casting dice in their pool? Now it is my turn to doubt this.
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 16:45:39 GMT
Until you read the Remains in Play part, that says you can dispel at any point in the magic phase...
Ie. If it is any part of the magic phase, you can dispel a remains in play spell π
The errata for this part states that you can only dispel a vortex at the start of the magic phase.
Which poo-poos the previous post above, (that the "start of the phase" happens before the subphases) - as power/dispel dice haven't been generated yet π€£
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 22, 2022 16:51:44 GMT
So you think the rules intended to allow the dispel of an in play, remains in play spell while denying the opponent the opportunity to cast it again while they have casting dice in their pool? no no - totally not what I'm saying. I'm saying when someone says they aren't going to cast anymore spells, this triggers the end of the magic phase. Therefore they cannot attempt to cast anymore spells. As per the rules.
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Post by thegoat on Oct 22, 2022 17:00:54 GMT
So you think the rules intended to allow the dispel of an in play, remains in play spell while denying the opponent the opportunity to cast it again while they have casting dice in their pool? no no - totally not what I'm saying. I'm saying when someone says they aren't going to cast anymore spells, this triggers the end of the magic phase. Therefore they cannot attempt to cast anymore spells. As per the rules. We are in agreement regarding, "when someone says they aren't going to cast anymore spells, this triggers the end of the magic phase. Therefore they cannot attempt to cast anymore spells. As per the rules." But that also prevents the other player from attempting a dispel.
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