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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 2, 2022 11:02:51 GMT
Quick rules question ahead of a game I have later.
If a character that is not Immune to Panic joins a unit that is Immune to Panic does the unit now have to take Panic checks? Specifically Panic and not Psychology as I know Immune to Psychology works if the majority of the unit has the rule.
Thanks
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Post by rahotep75 on Nov 2, 2022 14:07:25 GMT
What unit/character are you asking about?
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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 2, 2022 16:07:15 GMT
Specifically thinking about a Damsel in a unit of Knights of the Realm and whether they would then be subject to Panic caused by Peasants as the Damsel herself isn't immune to it
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 2, 2022 22:42:02 GMT
As far as I can tell, it is not specifically covered by the BRB (or the Bretonnian AB). As such, BRB p. 100 applies: "Unless otherwise noted in the text of the rule itself, a special rule applying only to a character does not apply to the unit, and vice versa," and, since there is no stated exemption, the whole unit would need to take a Panic test. That said, Immune to Panic is really just a subset of Immune to Psychology. I would advise to discuss it with your opponent beforehand, and personally would play it that with or without the Damsel, they are immune.
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Post by thegoat on Nov 2, 2022 22:50:41 GMT
IDK, I kind of like the image of the little girl panicking and the entire unit of Frenchy knights runs away with her just to be chivalrous.
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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 3, 2022 8:27:54 GMT
Thanks for the replies.
I feel Bretonnians need as much help as they can get, so would be happy for them not to have to test. Didn't come up in my game in the end, as there weren't really any peasants, but good to know for the future.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 3, 2022 14:54:08 GMT
The Knight of the Realm, Bretannic, Is completely immune against Panic, But that rule will cancel A diffident Damsel, And together they will turn like manic.
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Post by vulcan on Nov 5, 2022 3:23:19 GMT
RAW, yes, the whole unit has to make panic tests.
But frankly I'd give anyone brave enough to still be playing the last 6E book in 8E that one for free.
YMMV, of course.
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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 5, 2022 11:59:52 GMT
Surely only the Damsel would flee, leaving the unit behind?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 5, 2022 12:26:09 GMT
Actually, this is 8th edition too, as the RAW answer is confirmed by this FAQ: Q: Will a unit automatically pass a characteristic test if any model in the unit has the ability to do so? (p10) A: No, every model in the unit must have the ability to automatically pass the characteristic test for the unit to pass it automatically. DiscoQing : Characters can only leave their unit in specific circumstances, as described in BRB p. 101. Fleeing is never one of them.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 6, 2022 19:09:58 GMT
On second thought: that is not quite correct. The question is answered for characteristic tests, and while Leadership is a characteristic, Ld tests are separate. Hence, it is better to say: the RAW answer was confirmed for the same question regarding the characteristic tests, providing a clear parallel and precedent for Ld tests.
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Post by flammablehero on Nov 7, 2022 14:50:40 GMT
Within the lens of 6th edition, the Damsel would ignore the panic, just like the Knights. 6th edition had a specific section for "Independent Characters and Unit Psychology" which discusses how characters joining units would be subject to the various psychology rules, with particular regard to the movement whims of the unit as a whole. Ie, the character would be able to fight normally if its unit was subject to Stupidity, but would have to shamble along with them; or if the frenzied unit had to charge, they would go along for the ride, but would not get the extra attack.
As already pointed out, this was a 6th ed army book, written within the ruleset of that edition. In 6th particularly, psychology an entire section of rules as well as special rules, whereas in 8th, most psychology (aside from Panic) are just subsets of special rules.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 7, 2022 16:58:19 GMT
Hmmm, as far as I can tell, being immune to just Panic seems to be defunct in the 8th edition. The BRB mentions it once on p. 11 as an example of an advanced rule (but this could be as part of the ItP special rule), and I cannot find any AB units that are immune to just Panic (someone else may have better eyes, though). For instance, Longbeards that used to have that special rule, are now Immune to Psychology. A quick glance through the other older edition ABs that are still valid did not yield any examples of the special rule either. So, the problem seems to arise only in the case of the Knight's Vow.
As said above, I would advise to discuss it with your opponent beforehand, and personally would play it that with or without the Damsel, they are immune.
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Post by IbnSeesAll on Nov 7, 2022 17:11:20 GMT
Hmmm, as far as I can tell, being immune to just Panic seems to be defunct in the 8th edition. The BRB mentions it once on p. 11 as an example of an advanced rule (but this could be as part of the ItP special rule), and I cannot find any AB units that are immune to just Panic (someone else may have better eyes, though). For instance, Longbeards that used to have that special rule, are now Immune to Psychology. A quick glance through the other older edition ABs that are still valid did not yield any examples of the special rule either. So, the problem seems to arise only in the case of the Knight's Vow. As said above, I would advise to discuss it with your opponent beforehand, and personally would play it that with or without the Damsel, they are immune. Orcs & Goblins have the 'Size Matters' rule, which gives Orcs Immune to Panic caused by Goblins. So the situation could arise if you were playing with allies and put a non-Orc character in an Orc unit.
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Post by DiscoQing on Nov 8, 2022 0:53:13 GMT
Chaos dwarfs have the "Contempt" rule, that means they are immune to panic caused by Hobbos.
Skaven Slaves and Gnoblars have an inverted rule, where they don't cause panic in other units.
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