If I am allowed to resurrect this thread:
- Regarding Hatred: what constitutes the first round of combat was in fact clarified by Official Update Version 1.9, p. 10
Q: If a model gets a Strength bonus ‘in the first round of combat’ does this mean it only receives the bonus once per battle? And does it receive the bonus against a new enemy that charges it while it is already fighting in an ongoing combat? (p90)
A: No to both questions.
- Regarding war machines and pivoting, for some reason this is a recurring error. Here is one I had prepared earlier (2012) on warhammer-empire.com, which covers every possible angle and should refute any possible objection:
Can a war machine fire at something that is not in its front arc?To answer this question, let us first turn to the Section on shooting, where it is in fact specified in the first paragraph (N.B. all quotes according to Official Update Version 1.9):
- BRB. p 38:
This section covers the shooting rules for common weapons and the majority of troop types. War machines and other, more peculiar, devices of destruction are covered in their own chapter (beginning on page 108). However, even the most colossal trebuchet is governed by many of the same rules as the humble bow and arrow, so it's worth reading through this section before unlimbering your cannon or organ gun. [my emphasis]
The paragraph makes it clear that War Machines have their own rules. Note that this is not contradicted in the last sentence: war machines will be governed by many of the same rules - but not all, and perhaps not even most. Those rules that do indeed apply will be specified as such in the Shooting or the war machine section. Certainly, the Shooting section does not say anything about war machines and frontal arcs.
From this we can deduce:
Principle 1: Unless specified as such in either the Shooting, or the war machine section, the normal rules of shooting do not apply to war machines.On p. 39, the BRB makes clear that there are two straightforward rules to determine whether or not an enemy can be seen and thus be targeted by normal shooting:
- The target must be partially in the front arc of the shooting model (explained on BRB p.5)
- The shooting model must be able to trace a line of sight to the target (explained on BRB p. 10)
On the pages 5 & 10, each rule is explained without a single reference to the other.
From this we can deduce:
Principle 2: Front arc does not imply LOS and vice versa. They are two distinct and independent requirements. Let us turn now to the War machine section:
- BRB p. 109 (the war machine):
War machine models do not normally have bases, and so the usual convention of measuring to the model's base cannot be used. When measuring to and from the war machine, measure to or from the body of the machine, by which we mean the closest part of the chassis, wheels or the weapon itself (ignore any spikes, piles of cannonballs, sprockets, banners and so on).
There is one notable exception. When firing a war machine's weapon, ranges are measured from the muzzle of the gun (in the case of a cannon, volley gun or similar) or the crossbar (in the case of a stone thrower or similar catapult). If your war machine is particularly unusual and does not have any of these features, you should choose a suitable point from which you will measure all your shooting attacks, so long as you are consistent.
A war machine has no base, and this causes obvious problems for measuring distances, Line of Sight and facing. After all, “model's forward (or 'front'), flank and rear arcs extend out from its corners at 45° angles, forming four 90° quadrants ( BRB p. 5).
The paragraph specifically tackles the first two (distance. LoS), but not the resulting problem for facing (arcs). Some refer to BRB p. 5: “Last, but not least, a model has a forward, flank and rear arc based on the direction that it is facing,” to argue that every model has a front arc. However, BRB p. 5 also specifies: “A model's forward (or 'front'), flank and rear arcs extend out from its corners at 45° angles, forming four 90° quadrants, as shown here” (with a picture clarifying that the arc extend from the base corners). As war machines do not have a base, there is simply and absolutely no way to determine what their arcs are. Either war machines do not have arcs, or, if they do have them, they are irrelevant,
as they cannot be determined in the first place. This is further supported by the way how a war machine is charged (BRB p. 109) and how close combat is conducted and resolved (BRB p. 110) Indeed, “a war machine does not have any flanks or a rear for the purposes of combat results” (BRB p. 110). In other words, in CC at least, it has a 360 degree front.
In fact, neither the BRB War machine Section nor any Army Book ever specifically requires a front arc for firing a war machine.
There is, however, a single exception, the proverbial exception that confirms the rule: the Casket of Souls (
v. infra).
From this we can deduce
Principle 3: A war machine either does not have arcs, or they are irrelevant, as there are no rules determine them. If anything, it is treated as having a 360 degree front.We know turn to the most relevant part, i.e. the paragraph entitled “Shooting with war machines”:
- BRB p. 109:
Unless specified otherwise, all weapons in this section (and all other weapons mounted on war machines) have the Move or Fire and Slow to Fire special rules. Each type of war machine weapon is fired differently, as described in its own set of rules. Line of sight is always taken from the chosen firing point (i.e. its muzzle or crossbar, in the same way as for its range) - before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving). For war machine weapons that require Ballistic Skill, use the highest Ballistic Skill amongst the crew to resolve the shot.
This paragraph describes the general rules applying to all war machines. Note that LoS is mentioned, but not front arc. Of particular importance is the last semi-sentence: “before you fire the war machine, pivot it to face your chosen target (this doesn't count as moving).
Note that this happens “before you fire the war machine.”
This is repeated on p. 112 (Firing a cannon): “Remember that war machines are allowed to pivot in the Shooting phase, the better to bring your chosen target into the weapon's line of sight.”
The French version of the BRB (which did not need an erratum!) states it even more clearly:
Rappelez-vous que les machines de guerre ont le droit de pivoter pendant la phase de tir, ce qui leur permet de disposer d’un vaste choix de cibles.Or in translation: “Remember that war machines have the right to pivot in the Shooting phase, which allows them to have a vast choice of targets.”
That really ALL war machines benefit from this rule is proven by the Casket of Souls. Although a war machine, the Casket is not firing anything in the Shooting phase, but uses a DD spell in the Magic phase. Given that the Magic Phase happens before the Shooting phase, the Casket of Souls could not pivot before casting the spell, and thus required a forward arc for the spell. That is why the rules for the Casket of Souls (TK Army Book p. 40) specify how to determine the front arc: “The Casket of Souls model does not have a base – to determine its front arc, simply treat the model’s square ‘footprint’, formed by the dais of bones, as though it were a standard base.”
However, this was later effectively overruled by an FAQ:
- Tomb Kings Official Update Version 1.4 :
Q: Can a Casket of Souls pivot on the spot before casting the Light of Death spell in the same way other war machines can pivot on the spot before they shoot? (p40)
A: Yes, and just like with other war machines this does not count as moving.
From this we may deduce:
Principle 4: Before firing, all war machines may pivot in the Shooting phase to face any intended target. This does not count as moving. Each type of war machine weapon is fired differently, as described in its own set of rules. Some war machines (cannon, stone and fire throwers…) have their own rules for selecting a target and do not need to concern us further as they do not mention or even imply that the target should be in the front arc.
Others (those that use the BS of the crew, like grapeshot, bolt throwers…) have a specific firing sequence, the first step of which is to “select a target according to the normal rules for shooting”. This does seem to imply that the target must somehow be in the front arc (although there are no guidelines how to calculate that arc).
However, that is still irrelevant, as the BRB specifies that all war machines are allowed to pivot
before firing (or before casting, in the case of the CoS).
The pivot is not part of firing the war machine. So, you first pivot, and then select a target according to the normal rules for shooting as the first step of firing the war machine. Of course, when pivoting, one will have already a target in mind – the BRB does imply you just randomly spin around the war machine in the hope that it will point to a target. As such, that target will always end up in what might be considered a front arc. That is exactly why the BRB does not specify how to determine the arcs.
Conclusion: All war machines are allowed to fire at any target within their LoS and within range.