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Post by alanthemoderate on Jan 31, 2018 7:03:58 GMT
As someone who only has seen the new Games Workshop, I gotta say this thread makes me glad I didn't join much earlier
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Post by mottdon on Jan 31, 2018 13:31:13 GMT
Now, don't get me wrong, I think GW did the right thing in creating AoS. They simply should've let 8th edition alone. I mean, really. How difficult is it to release a second set of rules for 8th with each new model as they do for AoS? It's not a difficult bridge to gap either.
Let me see. Off the top of my head here, they could've written the AoS origin story to go something like, "After years and years of battling, Sigmar (having ascended to godhood) finally managed to stem the all-consuming tide of Chaos that would inevitably envelope the Old World by creating a multi-verse of worlds to draw and distract the attention of the Chaos gods. This greatly depleted his power and acts as a constant drain on him, so he is unable to stop the invasion of Chaos on all worlds. Therefore he has created a new sect of champions to seek out and fight these incursions of Choas throughout the multi-verse."
How difficult is that? The Old World is still in tact and available for people to play, and they can still have AoS introduced as a new game so that they can get new players interested in the game. It's a perfect starter, quick game, as well as a established, eventual, massed battle game for those players who's collections have grown to a degree that they want to use them all. It brings new players in and gives them a goal to keep buying product beyond a mere starting force. Personally, I would've loved something like that. It would've kept the world as I know it in tact, yet opened up the story, product line, and imaginative possibilities for me. I know a lot of people complained about the storyline not advancing, but that could've been done through the myriad of books they release.
But I digress.
Back on topic, I agree with you ryryak, after looking back at the legs, they do look like logs of driftwood. But somehow, they work for me on that particular model. Maybe it's the color of the drawing? I'm trying to imagine it in a Red, Navy or Purple and it doesn't make me think of driftwood as much. Whatever the case, I hope the sculpt actually looks like the drawing. The pose is very dynamic and menacing, and the Stinger and little "mouth leg" things look particularly nasty! I wouldn't want to go up against that! The one thing that bothers me is the hanging drummer in the middle of what I assume to be the "Catchweb Shrine". That might require a bit of innovation on my part.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2018 19:06:26 GMT
I had an epiphany the other day to use an arachnarok as the basis for a soulgrinder in my daemon army.
This model (with some conversion work) will fit that bill nicely.
I'll use the GW one as well with some modifications; I was thinking some tanks/sacs with tubes running to some kind of underslung cannon/mouth could work as a shooting weapon, and I could replace/modify the front arms to have hands/appendages/claws.
I think it will be a lot of fun and a good chance to exercise some creativity.
I'll definitely be looking to pick this up.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 1, 2018 0:40:01 GMT
I'm all for the model as imo it looks suitably different to the GW one from the Art.
The GW one is not designed to be posed rearing up and this spider imo look very different and not so much like an actual spider as the GW one(as someone said the legs look kind of like wood).
I don't see this as a direct knockoff or IP infringement in the same way I see some of those 'totally not space marines' helmets and guns which are direct copies.
Regarding 8th edition, 9th edition and Mantic....if GW had priced their regiments more reasonably and been less price gouging they could have stopped Mantic dead in their tracks.
The old GW head Kirby (who sucks more than the awesome Nintendo Kirby) once compared GW hobby afficianados to crack addicts implying they weren't price sensitive. Mantic thought different and made a successful business out of it. GW has the ability to mass produce Plastic kits and sell them at a reasonable price...they opted not to and lost market share accordingly.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 1, 2018 11:55:51 GMT
Folks as always take a look at per mini pricing in war machine, avatars of War, Malifaux vs GW. Or price out an Arachnarok sized model from someone else (hard to do as I can’t think of a non GW model of that size) their are all the same or higher price. Mantic is cheaper but is clearly of much lower quality. If a high quality mini could be done much cheaper then GW why isn’t someone doing it.
If they could how much of what GW is spending on for a box of troops is rules writers, art design folks? For a creative medium IP/Brand is what they really own long term. Mini sales are just how they cash in on that IP. If you can use someone else’s IP you can skip those costs.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 1, 2018 13:59:18 GMT
Yes but lawyers and lawsuits don’t get you customers. I frankly don't care about IP and never will. Anyone that thinks to force others out of business is the way to attract customers have a long road ahead and need to rethink its business. I hope my grandchildren will live in a world without patent troll companies.
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Post by mottdon on Feb 1, 2018 14:50:14 GMT
As long as companies produce products that I can afford and meet my gaming needs, regardless of who makes it, I will at least consider it. The way I see it, I'm the customer, and it's up to the companies to fight for my business. If a company isn't willing to try and win my favor, then they aren't worth my time or money.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 1, 2018 18:29:17 GMT
It it does looks like GW is on the right track with communicating with its customers again.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 1, 2018 22:16:25 GMT
Yes but lawyers and lawsuits don’t get you customers. I frankly don't care about IP and never will. Anyone that thinks to force others out of business is the way to attract customers have a long road ahead and need to rethink its business. I hope my grandchildren will live in a world without patent troll companies. So lets imagine a world without IP protection. Your favorite author releases a book to great acclaim - it's downloaded reproduced and available on scribd in a day. Instead of selling a million copies he/she sells 10 copies. Are they going to get another book deal? Your favorite movie franchise gets one night in the theaters generating income for the movie company and actors before it's files are downloaded and available for free on the net and at the dollar theater down the street who doesn't need to pay movie rights to the original company. Does the next movie in the series come out? The new Iphone comes out and someone reverse engineers the patented hardware and it's software in a week - with an "I-Phone" released at half the price because the new company has no need to recoup that Research and Development or manage an app store etc. How long before Apple says we're out of the business of making new phones? How long before those large companies are gone? WFB 8th is gone because of a lack of sales if various copy cat companies weren't stealing sales from WFB players from GW would we have had a 9th? Would you have liked to see a 9th ed? I agree the companies that parasitically leach business from a larger host should rethink their business model as forcing others out of business isn't a great business model. On the other hand I think it's hard to argue we'd have a better world without IP protections.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 2, 2018 6:24:17 GMT
Sorry, this thread is going out of hand and I am responsible. I do understand your perspective (I would guess you are a lawyer). I am in IT and the best thing that happened is open source. And finally, Microsoft realised and since they moved in that direction the bleeding has stopped. Apple is an excellent example of customers satisfaction and not IP (I can switch to cheaper phone any time), and so is Samsung by totally copying Apple and of course the opposite. Most of the IP laws are added amendments long after books, acting and music was invented. And like amendments are amended they can also be removed. I would like to see GW lawyers bills for the period of 2010 and 2015 and cross them with sales. I wouldn't be surprised to find the more they sued, the less the earned. Wonder what had happened if they had put that money into a community manager, rules team, faq mailing squad. We are on a major break with 3d printing. If they don't realize this and change their business model, we might not have GW in 10 years. I would hate that... The BS need to be sustainable from a customers perspective. We need to get value for our money. Its ok if they are the most expensive plastic ever. But then the customer satisfaction need to be justified by being the best company ever. I LOVE THIER TWITCH channel even though I don't play any of the games in it and we need more Duncan!
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 2, 2018 11:33:18 GMT
Not a lawyer. I just think stealing is wrong . What business model for a mini company is going to survive free 3D printing of their miniatures? It’s going to end the industry by and large. If people don’t care about protecting the creators IP rights what happens when there is a Napster for miniature games? If we as players can always get it cheaper somewhere else how would all the customer support in the world help? As it stands GW was for the 2010-2015 era the army sculpting theming, rules writing, FAQ, Black library writing so Mantic could sell models. If Mantic just recast GW minis and diidnt have to pay for any of that creative and customer focused work how would GW ever match that price when it’s paying for all that stuff beyond the toy soldiers.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Feb 2, 2018 14:34:57 GMT
Recast is very different to what this company is doing with their own unique spider art and sculpt.
I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that someone high up said they wanted 3d printing to get better so eventually GW could just sell designs for consumers to print on their own.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 2, 2018 14:42:27 GMT
Recast is illustrating the slippery slope of saying IP piracy doesn't matter. However making something clearly designed to be a convincing substitute for the GW original is pretty much the same. Frankly if you told me that imagery was GW's initial concept art for the Arachnorok I (and I think most of us) would have absolutely believed it was from GW. Does anyone really believe they came up with that without looking directly at the Arachnorok and deciding to copy it?
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Post by mottdon on Feb 2, 2018 14:59:37 GMT
I think that even if you can get models cheaper somewhere, if you are enjoying working with and the experience of shopping at a certain location, then customers of this hobby will give them their loyalty. This is an expensive hobby and we all know it, yet we are more than willing to spend our money for that experience! If I am treated nice and as if my opinion matters, not rushed out the door and am offered every convenience to make my stay as pleasant as possible, then of course I will spend more money with that location than over some cheap second-hand website. I've done that PLENTY at my local GW store! They know me by name and I probably could've bought a brand new car off the assembly line with how much money I've spent with them. They're cool though and always welcoming. If they convert to a Warhammer Cafe there? Shoot. They'll get my money for sure!
That being said, I like different options. Do I have an A-rock? Yes. Do I have two? No. Because I don't want them identical. So this model holds great interest for me. Just that simple.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 2, 2018 15:14:24 GMT
Well, first the spider and the goblin is both a work of at least Tolkien. So it shows how absurd it is calling it GW rights (and they know it). Second, if your business plan is to sell overpriced products with bad customer care you deserve to go out of business. And yes they will have to change that and become a service provider. This happens all the time. Business adjusts or goes out of businesses when technology change.
IP fraud/copy has absolutely nothing to do with GW's bad performance. I am convinced bad management and poor innovation is the main reason.
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