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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2018 19:48:48 GMT
I've got my first WFB game in ages on Sunday, and it'll also be my first game with Dwarves. I'm playing against the opponent who'd challenged me to paint up a new army this year to face his new Skaven army. The intention was to only play painted units, but I think he's only got a couple of bases of giant rats done, so we're allowing unpainted models too. However, since I've got quite a few Dwarves complete, I'm fielding all of those, to rub it in his face - that's my 20 Hammerers/20 HW+shield Longbeards/20 Ironbreakers/10 Irondrakes. Also 20 Rangers (being fielded as Quarrelers) that I've nearly completed. We're playing a smallish game as both armies are new to us, so there won't be room for much more beyond that. I try not to be a really competitive player, and the aim here is to focus on the painted units, but I really want to beat him, because a) Skaven, b) I've been on a losing streak against him, c) I don't want to see him kill all my nicely painted models, and d) Skaven. He might read this forum, as he's a skulking thaggoraki, but I've got nothing to hide. This is the list I've come up with: - Thane (general), Great Weapon, Oath Stone, Master Rune of Gromril, 1 Rune of Iron - 146 points
- Runesmith, Shield, 1 Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone - 93 points
- 20 Longbeards, Shields, Full Command - 260 points
- 20 Quarrelers, Great Weapons, Full Command - 310 points
- 20 Hammerers, Full Command, Master Rune of Valaya - 375 points
- 20 Ironbreakers, Full Command - 310 points
- Gyrocopter - 80 points
- Cannon, Rune of Burning, Rune of Forging - 150 points
- 10 Irondrakes, Full Command, Trollhammer Torpedo, Rune of Slowness - 235 points
Total: 1989 points; I'm not sure what to spend the last 10 on.
I know someone will suggest a BSB, but I'm of the FvonSigmaringen school of thought that the Thane in this list has to be general. Knoffles will probably say that the Trollhammer Torpedo is a bad idea on the Irondrakes, but it's what I built them with, so I'll stick with that.
Roughly, I'd imagine the Ironbreakers at one flank with the Thane, while the Longbeards sit closer to the other side (albeit with a unit either side) to act as a quasi-BSB. The Runesmith will probably go in the Longbeards.
I don't know what my opponent will bring, but he'll probably want to play some of the impressive centrepiece Skaven kits, so an expensive Lord like Thanquol (End Times version), a Verminlord or Grey Seer on Screaming Bell. That's why I took the MRoV to ensure I've got good magical defence. He has a Hellpit Abomination, but hasn't built it yet... or that's what he tells me.
Does this list look decent, given my restrictions? Is there anything worth spending the last 10 points on? And how would you play the army?
Other options I've got, in case it's useful:
- 30 Thunderers
- 20 Slayers
- Gyrobomber
- Bolt Thrower
- Organ Gun
- Assorted characters (no Lord on Shieldbearers yet, and only Grimm Burloksson as an Engineer)
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Post by knoffles on Jul 24, 2018 21:12:14 GMT
I will definitely suggest splitting the Quarrellers into two units of 10. It means you have more flexibility in targeting his rat darts (and both units can combine fire if required). I would drop the champion and then you can give both units a musician and standard and that’s your spare 10pts taken care of.
Give the troll hammer a go. It does occasionally pay off and if it does against a hellpit, you’ll be laughing 😀.
The longbeards are a good choice for the Runesmith. He also works well in the ironbreakers, though your general is there so it becomes an all your eggs in one basket. He also works well in the Irondrakes but that unit is a bit small in your list to get the benefits.
P.s. don’t forget you get hatred as standard against the Skaven vermin!
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Post by mottdon on Jul 24, 2018 21:47:17 GMT
While I DEFINITELY dont agree with your assessment of the Thane having to be the general instead of BSB, I don't think it'll really have much impact in this game. With their high Ld, they're not going to be in much trouble unless you come up against highly offensive units like the Doomwheel or HPA.
That's also why I think you're correct in taking the Trollhammer Torpedo. It's virtually the only long-range, missile weapon you have in your list. You're going to need it to handle Skaven big bads. The Hammerers can do a lot of damage initially, but after a turn or two of combat, they will be severely depleted.
I think you're biggest problem will be if he brings artillery. Other than your Gyro, you'll have to just hope it blows up. I'd also keep your Ironbreakers and Hammerers fairly close, with the Ironbreakers and Longbeards guarding the flanks of the Hammerers. Running a protected flank deployment might be a good option. That'll force him to come to you.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 24, 2018 22:04:30 GMT
I would probably try to save an extra 10 points somewhere and then get the Vanguard upgrade for the Gyrocopter.
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Post by sedge on Jul 25, 2018 10:45:05 GMT
Thanks for the tips. The Gyrocopter vanguard change would be fairly simple, just by dropping the Quarrelers' champion. On splitting up the Quarrelers - my instinct with missile units is to field them in minimum-sized units to give you more drops, and more flexibility on targets. However, I thought Dwarves may be different as GW-armed units are a solid combat block too, so you want them in a decent sized unit so they can last in a fight. It would be quite unwieldy, having a unit of 10 x 2, however.
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Post by livewaaaaagh on Jul 25, 2018 13:23:15 GMT
That's a pretty good list to be honest. I like it. I've only played against Skaven once and got artillery'ed to death. So I'd advance at once if he's strong on arty. Other than that, a strong list! Good luck! Don't forget hatred! D
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Post by mottdon on Jul 25, 2018 13:32:18 GMT
Dwarf Quarrelers are surprisingly resilient! I think fielding two units of 10 is the way to go. I'd only take Vanguard on the Gyro if you have the extra points. I wouldn't cut anything for it. Personally, I'd leave off the Vanguard, split up the Quarrelers into two units of 10 with Standards and Musicians on each.
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Post by knoffles on Jul 26, 2018 9:27:14 GMT
I’d probably prioritise standards over musicians if you wanted to save some points, as they would help with the fortitude Scenario and with the move or fire rule, they still can’t shoot if they swift reform making the musician of secondary importance (in my eyes anyway).
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Post by mottdon on Jul 26, 2018 13:52:27 GMT
Huh. I've honestly never thought about it like that. I've always made the Musician the top priority, because I want them to be able to face whatever threat is going to inevitably charge them.
Brain fart: Do they still get to make a Stand and Shoot reaction after making that swift reform? (I'm on vacation right now and don't have my books with me. ☹️). If so, I'd think that was more important, but if not, then the Standard.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 26, 2018 14:05:25 GMT
Brain fart: Do they still get to make a Stand and Shoot reaction after making that swift reform? (I'm on vacation right now and don't have my books with me. ☹️). If so, I'd think that was more important, but if not, then the Standard. In theory: yes, But since they can only make a Swift Reform in their own turn, they normally cannot be charged in that turn. |
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Post by sedge on Jul 26, 2018 14:39:20 GMT
I'm thinking this is probably what I'll field:
- Thane (general), Great Weapon, Oath Stone, Master Rune of Gromril, 1 Rune of Iron - 146 points
- Runesmith, Shield, 1 Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone - 93 points
- 20 Longbeards, Shields, Full Command - 260 points
- 10 Quarrelers, Great Weapons, Musician, Standard - 160 points
- 10 Quarrelers, Great Weapons, Musician, Standard - 160 points
- 20 Hammerers, Full Command, Master Rune of Valaya - 375 points
- 20 Ironbreakers, Full Command - 310 points
- Gyrocopter - 80 points
- Cannon, Rune of Burning, Rune of Forging - 150 points
- 10 Irondrakes, Full Command, Trollhammer Torpedo, Rune of Slowness - 235 points
Total: 1,999 points.
I could drop the Quarreler musicians to get Vanguard on the Gryocopter. I think the Musicians could be useful though, if I decide I need to sacrifice a unit of them to reform + move to protect a flank of one of the more important units.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Jul 26, 2018 16:26:32 GMT
Brain fart: Do they still get to make a Stand and Shoot reaction after making that swift reform? (I'm on vacation right now and don't have my books with me. ☹️). If so, I'd think that was more important, but if not, then the Standard. In theory: yes, But since they can only make a Swift Reform in their own turn, they normally cannot be charged in that turn. On reflection, the answer must be "No." While S&S does not take place in the Shooting Phase, it is still subject to the same limitations. Of course, they still could not normally be charged in their own turn. |
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 2, 2018 22:19:00 GMT
I don't have any Irondrakes but I'd not leave home without one. Hammerers are obviously good and you may be limited by numbers but you'll lose a lot of them - but if you can't make the unit bigger... Guess you'll have to tell us how it went.
Greg
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 2, 2018 22:23:58 GMT
I think you've great faith in not having a BSB or making the ironbreakers stoic. I rarely take the master rune of Valaya, usually because the BSB has other runes, I take the ancestor rune of runes of slowness instead.
Greg
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Post by sedge on Aug 3, 2018 5:43:48 GMT
Things went really badly: eefl.freeforums.net/threads/recent/1162 - though part of that was me making a stupid error in calculating combat resolution. I think next time we might have a bigger game, so there'll definitely be a BSB in there. |
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