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Post by KevinC on Dec 16, 2015 17:31:06 GMT
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Dec 16, 2015 17:59:34 GMT
Awesome! How's he going to get 40 wounds? Breath attacks in combat?
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Post by KevinC on Dec 16, 2015 18:05:17 GMT
Rick, it's the total wounds throughout the game. I suppose that needs to be written more clearly. So as soon as he causes the 40th unsaved wound, the Slaaneshi heads pops out. Get it?
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Mioum
Junior Member
Posts: 98 
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Post by Mioum on Dec 16, 2015 21:40:13 GMT
Looks good, if my Chaos-playing friend ever buy the model, I'll show him these rules. They seems fair and fun to use  And I like that you included the damaged Third Eye from Grimgor headbutt too! |
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Post by chuckjerry on Dec 16, 2015 21:53:43 GMT
Why 40? Otherwise I like it.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 16, 2015 22:09:46 GMT
The '40' number probably needs to be play tested to determine the right number. What do you think it should be chuckjerry?
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Post by chuckjerry on Dec 17, 2015 0:29:38 GMT
20-25 pure kills , not stomps or catching fleeing units would be a more see able number,
Also the sword ... i take it the sword is always open now ? Because that's a very expensive model and also very risky to use in combat .
Personally the only time I ever opened the sword was a last ditch effort otherwise I knew it would probably kill me
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Dec 17, 2015 0:35:08 GMT
Remember when Archaon was just a dude? Just a normal 25mm scale dude on a 25mm horse. He was like 1 inch tall back in the day. $9.99 for a blister pack. Harumph.
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Dec 17, 2015 1:46:47 GMT
Talk about scale creep...
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 17, 2015 8:43:44 GMT
Thanks for putting this together
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 17, 2015 8:58:02 GMT
Well ok I have just read through the rules...
Honestly as opposed to Khorghus i am not a huge fan of these.
Random spelling point under Steed of the Apocalypse it should be grown not groan.
I think Archaon in his new form should be 1000 points at minimum (Nagash level due to his size).
I prefer the old split profiles but given End Times i can understand you doing it this way.
I just don't feel the rules match the new model which is GWs largest Fantasy plastic kit released.
I don't feel these rules do justice to his new mount.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 17, 2015 12:33:25 GMT
Thanks for the feedback.
Grandmasterwang, why do you feel that way ?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 17, 2015 17:08:29 GMT
Thanks for the feedback. Grandmasterwang, why do you feel that way ? WoC Archaon is 650 points. This new super version is 900. Imo Nagash should be the underdog vs this guy (new Archaon is bigger). I've been thinking about it. I don't like the combined profiles as it makes Strength hard to deal with as it's combined but Strength 6 for this new model is weaker than a Carnosaur for example. I think the 40 wounds thing is unnecessary and the model can't grow a 4th head so adds little (imo of course). Regarding the monster, i had a look at the Warscroll to see how the 8th rules compare and i definitely feel like the 'lashing tails' granting extra attacks or hits would help make Dorghar seem more 'alive' for the 8th rules. I feel bringing across/converting some of the AOS rules would add to this. Due to the combined profile, besides the unique head rules what does the beast really add besides wounds? I mean all attacks will be with the Slayer of Kings so it feels the beast which is 90% of the new model doesn't do much at all. I don't like the 8th Eye of Shireen rules or the fluff about Grimgor really. I feel the AOS rules capture this artifact better. I dunno, just no feeling it atm. Compared to the glottkin Archaon just feels like weaksauce currently flavour and power wise. I do like the Khorne head breath weapon though. Please don't think i don't appreciate what you're doing... i just feel like there is huge room for improvement with these rules and i don't think they capture the essence of Archaon. Meanwhile your Khorghus rules are pretty much spot on for the model imo. I would definitely consider adding an additional breath weapon for the Nurgle head. The inferior 2 headed Chaos Dragon has 2 breaths if i recall. This should have more everything. Also the Swords of Chaos rule? Are there 8th Varanguard rules somewhere? Unrelated but are there 8th Edition Khorgorath rules anywhere? Finally base guidelines ala Forgeworld Monstrous Arcanum would be welcome, im thinking 100x150? Anyway i appreciate your efforts and will keep thinking on ways to improve these draft rules |
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Post by KevinC on Dec 18, 2015 21:41:28 GMT
grandmasterwang, I greatly appreciate your comments. Some of our differences are just preferences. For example, my favorite part of the entire Archaon rules I wrote is the mention of Grimgor damaging the Eye of Sheerian and the rule where the Slaaneshi head can sprout out. I also really like the direction of ridden monsters GW was doing at the end of 8th edition with the combined profile. I completely understand why some people don't like it and I do like both the tradition ridden monster rules and the idea of treating them like the Monstrous Cav profile too. However, my intent going forward is to use the ridden monster design direction GW was going for in the End Times. I thought you made a good point about the Glottkin, but I just reviewed the Glottkin's rules again and under my estimation my Archaon is superior by far (and more expensive 900 vs 810). Some of the things I am considering is a second breath weapon from the Nurgle head (and maybe a third from the Slaansh head), making Archaon S7, and I probably will lower the count to create the Slaanesh head. I want to playtest him further though. I've written some rules for the Varanguard, they are coming. I greatly appreciate your comments grandmasterwang, just there are some things (like combined monster/rider profiles) that I'm sticking with.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 18, 2015 23:01:36 GMT
I don't mind the combined profiles, although i prefer split in some instances. I wasn't asking you to change to split in this instance, just utilize the special rules to make Dorghar more of a feature considering how big he is.
Power wise Archaon is superior to the Glottkin as Glottkin isn't powerful for the points, i was talking flavor. Imo the Glottkin does a good job of making all 3 brothers distinct with Big Ghurk having the Strength 10 hit. That was the point i was trying to make. New Dorghar imo doesn't add much to Archaon besides wounds, flight and the heads. I like the head rules, but i feel that the body/tails etc of the beast itself are not well represented. Even something like allowing Dorghar to reroll its thunderstomp hits or say a lashing tail bonus would help Dorghar seem like a gigantic monster rather than just 3 heads if you know what i mean. I don't think i articulated my thoughts so well before.
In a 'competitive' matchup of course I'd take your Archaon over Glottkin (wizard levels aside) but imo Archaon the new super big bad should be more than 90 points more than old Glott. Of course this is all opinion.
Anyway thanks for the response and looking forward to seeing what you come up with for the Varanguard.
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And I like that you included the damaged Third Eye from Grimgor headbutt too!
