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Post by mrburp on Jan 2, 2019 9:07:51 GMT
Hi Guys,
I’m currenty finishing my first ever 2500 pts Dark Elves list, and its something like this:
Supreme Sorceress (Dark or Life) on Black Dragon Talisman of Preservation Dispel Scroll
Master BSB on Cold One Repeater Crossbow, Lance, Shield, Heavy Armour
10 Darkshards 10 Darkshards
28 Corsairs
9 Cold One Knights (guess where my BSB Goes)
5 Doomfire Warlocks 5 Doomfire Warlocks
Reaper Bolt Thrower Reaper Bolt Thrower
And then the big question I have, 24 Black Guard or 28 Executioners?
My initial thought was BG, as I want the unit to hold in combat until I can get a flank with one of my mobile units. Then again, spare for my Dragon and Cold Ones I’m lacking something to deal with high Toughness. Magic is still in consideration but i’m leaning towards Dark for its destruction power.
I’m open for C&C!
Edit: forgot bolt throwers
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Post by sedge on Jan 2, 2019 18:03:27 GMT
The Sorceress on Black Dragon is an interesting choice. The Sorceress wants to be safe out of combat (she only has 1 attack, minimal defence, and some of her spells such as Doombolt require her to be out of combat to use), but the dragon wants completely the opposite - to be smashing things to bits in combat. That's not to say you shouldn't use it - but be aware, that it's hard to get the best out of it.
If you're sticking with the Sorceress on Black Dragon, one suggestion is to give her the Black Dragon Egg in addition to her Talisman of Preservation - it means that when you get stuck in that tricky combat, she can become Toughness 6 for one turn to keep her alive; the breath weapon also helps to inflict a few more wounds. You wouldn't have space for a Dispel Scroll alongside that, though. The other build I'd suggest considering is The Black Amulet (keeps the ward save, also no nasty combat character will want to challenge her), The Other Trickster's Shard (messes up opponent's ward saves) and the Tome of Furion. The Tome is important as it lets you choose Soul Stealer - crucial for a solo Sorceress, as she can use that spell to increase her wounds so she's less vulnerable to warmachines or in combat.
Your other problem is that when you do get into combats, she's going to be challenged by a unit champion - so for the first round your dragon is stuck squelching a measly champion rather than inflicting massive damage on the unit. The way to get around that is to have another flying character (usually a Master on Dark Pegasus) who will charge into the same combats, and take the challenge instead.
With your BSB Cold One Master, I'd recommend replacing the shield with either the Enchanted Shield (5 points, gets you save up to 1+ save) or a Sea Dragon Cloak (6 points, does the same). If you can squeeze in points, the Sword of Might gives him constant Strength 5 attacks - you've got enough S6 from the other knights, and it means you're better off the charge.
Your Dragon, Cold One Knights and Bolt Throwers all have high Strength attacks, so don't feel you need to take the Executioners. The Black Guard will give you a nice solid block that you can rely on not to run away.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 2, 2019 18:52:40 GMT
Solid advice from sedge. I’ll just add that Executioners are often seen as the more competitive choice with their higher Str and killing blow, so taking black guard (who are no slouches) is something a bit different..
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Post by mrburp on Jan 2, 2019 20:20:13 GMT
Thanks for the replies so far. I know a Sorceress on a Dragon isn’t the most optimal, nevertheless I’ll defenitely look in to those suggestions. To be fair, I just really like the model and wanna play it, and although a Dreadlord would be way deadlier, I think the need for a lvl 4 caster is bigger.
I did feel BG would be somehow better in a list like this, but Nothing wrong with getting Some confirmation.
As for points, if I opt for the BG I have 52 to spare, so magic items and banners are still open (was considering +1 LD on Cold Ones, AP on CO or BG, the usual basicly).
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 2, 2019 23:13:10 GMT
First of all, run the Dragon! Everyone loves dragons. Second, take photos and write a battle report. Everyone wants to read about dragons. I would go with the blackguard, as sedge says you have plenty of high strength already.
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Post by mrburp on Jan 2, 2019 23:23:08 GMT
First of all, run the Dragon! Everyone loves dragons. Second, take photos and write a battle report. Everyone wants to read about dragons. I would go with the blackguard, as sedge says you have plenty of high strength already. I Will, as soon as it’s actually assembled and painted 😅 I’m actually just starting the army, since I got this bad boy (sealed) for € 80
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jan 4, 2019 11:37:13 GMT
Thanks for the replies so far. I know a Sorceress on a Dragon isn’t the most optimal, nevertheless I’ll defenitely look in to those suggestions. To be fair, I just really like the model and wanna play it, and although a Dreadlord would be way deadlier, I think the need for a lvl 4 caster is bigger. I did feel BG would be somehow better in a list like this, but Nothing wrong with getting Some confirmation. As for points, if I opt for the BG I have 52 to spare, so magic items and banners are still open (was considering +1 LD on Cold Ones, AP on CO or BG, the usual basicly). For what it's worth, while many people prefer Executioners (often they don't run Cold One knights) to Black Guard due to strength 6 and killing blow........ In a head to head matchup Black Guard destroy Executioners so it's not like you are handicapping yourself at all. They are both favourable in different situations. Executioners hard counter cavalry due to the strength/killing blow but Black Guard are great at pulping lower armored infantry (such as Executioners) with their WS and rerolls. I am a fan of both, however unfortunately only have Executioners at this stage. I'm hoping to one day own a block of nicely painted Black Guard myself so if you run/play them I can live vicariously through you
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Post by mrburp on Jan 4, 2019 16:46:17 GMT
Thank you mailman (don’t mind the Empire box, it’s for a friend)
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Post by strutsagget on Jan 4, 2019 17:09:19 GMT
Oh, sweet cold one knights. One of my all-time favorite Warhammer model.
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Post by mrburp on Jan 4, 2019 17:20:49 GMT
I also ordered 3 boxes of BG from GW so the list is defenitely becoming closer to reality. Dragon, Locks and remaining Corsairs are a februari investment tho. In fact the army is kind of a long term plan that I’m likely to make short term considering how much I wanna play this list and models
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Post by imrillion on Jan 20, 2019 23:20:31 GMT
In a small game like this, Id say go the BG, use your clever girls to deal with the bigger stuff. Or your spell-chick on big lizard to augment your BG. In small games like this BG have more uses and can be better all rounders. Anything that is huge enough to worry black guard you are gonna make a priority any way, so u will shoot and magic the ever living shit out of it. 20 BG come in at 315, Conversely 30 dread spears come in at 300. If all you have planned for them is an anchor I'd go for the 6 ranks of spears over the 4 ranks of halberds.. yea sure u are losing out on a point of str but from what u have said you aren't expecting them to clean house by themselves. You get the same amount of attacks and when augmented, or if the enemy they're facing is hexed, u are laughing. On the other hand if you don't have a real plan for the unit, go the BG, they have a wide range of uses and can turn their hand to a lot of scenarios.
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