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Post by DiscoQing on Feb 26, 2019 8:36:29 GMT
Then it's up to you whether you use that base or not.
Generally speaking people don't have peculiar base sizes (however I do have a chariot on a 55mmx105mm base... So odd...).
Needless to say, bases should be touching when in a unit. There can be no dispute about that, it's literally in context with the rules.
In individual circumstances where the 26mm cav base is in a unit of other cav, causing issues with ranking, getting more hits by templates or allowing enemies to be 1mm closer to you... Well you would just need to accept those shortcomings, and work through it. Or get a new base to keep your unit succinct.
Ofc there's the basing guide on this forum which can help you decide which base is suitable. That's also generally acceptable.
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Post by Horace on Feb 26, 2019 9:31:03 GMT
You can use whatever base the model is supplied with, that is fine. however if you have a mis-sized base bear in mind you would not be able to join a unit in the traditional manner too. You would have to place them to the side of the unit if you can not rank them properly.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 26, 2019 9:33:44 GMT
I think you are misinformed about how production is done.
Every product is done with error tolerance. The lower the error the higher the quality and price. There is no 100% accuracy.
And we are talking partial mm.
GW bases seem to have tolerance with 5-10% with cavalry being the worst.
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Post by DiscoQing on Feb 26, 2019 10:40:04 GMT
The difference makes no difference.
Look under the template or use a grid - either way you choose, the fact remains... Bases touch in units. Lol
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Post by knoffles on Feb 26, 2019 12:49:26 GMT
It’s pretty much only on miscasts that a template is ever dead centre. In those cases, maths should be able to calculate how many models are hit. I play very flexibly and often just take maximum models if in doubt. I find that is also in keeping with fluff on miscasts and the perils of drawing in too much power! I play other templates in a similar way though if if it’s me laying them and if anything is borderline under it I won’t bother counting it. If opponents want to get funny about counting every model that is a millimetre under the template and feel that they need that much advantage then I will likely make a comment and won’t bother playing them again as they are likely the kind of player that looks for every little advantage and my hobby time is too limited to want to deal with ‘that guy’. Don’t get me wrong, I’m quite competitive but there are some things that aren’t worth while. Though my personal bug bear is ‘creative’ movement and charges.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 26, 2019 15:47:16 GMT
Well, a stone thrower with direct hit 1/3 of the time is pretty often And it is not an mm its 0.6mm in the best case and probably not even visible for the eye. I do agree it is probably something you run in a tourney and I would let anyone roll it off against me. I am just interested in how everyone runs it and how to interpreter the rules. I wish my hellcannon hits 5wide but would never claim it again anyone I did not agree on it before the game and a good friend. But I am open to change my mind just want good rules references
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Post by crownprinceimrik on Feb 26, 2019 20:55:39 GMT
This is an annoying question. The people that argue that 5 models are hit are technically correct if the model is on 25mm wide or smaller bases and the template is centered exactly over the perfect center of the middle model and if the template is itself exactly 3" in diameter (it is worth pointing out that the 3" template printed in the rulebook and the 3" template that GW sold are both not 3" exactly, in fact they are smaller). However, that said, page 9 of the BRB says that: "To work out which models are hit, you normally need to hold the template over an enemy unit ... and then look underneath to see which models' bases lie partially or completely underneath the template." Unfortunately this does say "normally", so that opens up counter arguments, but the key wording is that you need to hold the template over the unit. Meaning that you cannot just say "the template is dead center over your cavalry block", by the rules you have to go and hold the template where you want it to be. There are few people that can hold a template about 2" off the ground minimum over a cavalry unit and manage to center that template dead on to get all 5 models hit considering the margin for error is 0.4mm.
What this boils down to is that while the argument for hitting 5 is technically correct, I do not believe it is practically possible in a game. In a friendly game, I'd say to my opponent either 3 hits or 4 hits if you place the template a bit off center, which is legal. If your opponent argues for 5 and is getting annoyed about it, as it's a friendly game I'd give it to them, but I'd be less inclined to play with that person again and would be far more wary about following the rules to the letter with that person (I usually play quite casually and don't pull out protractors when determining charge arcs!). In a tournament, I'd argue quite a bit against 5 hits, and would probably ask a TO to settle it or dice off for it.
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Post by midnightfox0083 on Feb 27, 2019 18:22:25 GMT
I think you are misinformed about how production is done. Every product is done with error tolerance. The lower the error the higher the quality and price. There is no 100% accuracy. And we are talking partial mm. GW bases seem to have tolerance with 5-10% with cavalry being the worst. The tolerance is calculated such that GW cav bases were actually 24mmx50 rather than the stated 25x50, though. Similarly, their Chariot base are technically like 49x100 or something like that.
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Post by strutsagget on Feb 27, 2019 19:00:16 GMT
I think you are misinformed about how production is done. Every product is done with error tolerance. The lower the error the higher the quality and price. There is no 100% accuracy. And we are talking partial mm. GW bases seem to have tolerance with 5-10% with cavalry being the worst. The tolerance is calculated such that GW cav bases were actually 24mmx50 rather than the stated 25x50, though. Similarly, their Chariot base are technically like 49x100 or something like that. I think you misinterpreted tolerance. It is not that something has a fixed value. It means GW officially shipped 25mm bases as anything between 22,5-27,5mm. And 20mm base is anything between 19-21mm. All are legal and official GW bases. Edit Of course, the numbers are my estimates and not official from GW. Based on the sizes I have gotten from GW.
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Post by DiscoQing on Feb 27, 2019 19:34:14 GMT
Just like AoS, bases don't matter.
Use the template over models to help guess, or agree the "official size of bases" together and maths it noggin-wise, or use a grid that you both agree on/with...
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Post by vulcan on Feb 27, 2019 22:29:11 GMT
Or just don't stress over anything less than 1/8"...
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Post by knoffles on Mar 1, 2019 6:14:54 GMT
and if you are holding a template above models unless you have a perfect eye and can tell dead centre and the steadiest hand in the world, then it is unlikely the template will ever be dead centre.
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Post by strutsagget on Mar 23, 2019 9:46:47 GMT
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 23, 2019 12:39:55 GMT
It is not really a question of the rules per se, but of their practical application. That said, ruleswise you can disregard any theoretical maths of the potential maximum number of models affected - only the actual numbers under the template count, and that will indeed vary by a small amount, depending on where the template is held. In the end, I should think that such errors will even each other out. I myself have glued a thin 10 cm stand on some of my templates, which is not perfect but does help. If my opponent is not insisting on the maximum/minimum of models affected, I will not either.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 24, 2019 2:13:25 GMT
I myself have glued a thin 10 cm stand on some of my templates, which is not perfect but does help. any pictures of this implement?
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