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Post by strutsagget on Mar 12, 2019 20:01:49 GMT
I am more interested in the wording on black hammer. What does killed outright mean? No AS? No WS? Regeneration? I can’t find any explanation. Except killing blow is explained.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 12, 2019 20:07:39 GMT
I don't think it comes down to 6 dicing the one spell you want to get through. Don't get me wrong, that is a viable tactic, but it is far from the only one. The Sorcerer-Prophets are expensive and valuable to the CD army. Continually flirting with miscast (especially since they are even more vulnerable to it than other wizards) is a risky proposition. The chalice can really play mind games with your opponent. Do they let a few "lesser" spells go through early on in an attempt to stop the more important one (but risk being "chaliced" in the process). The chalice gives you a very good chance at getting your last spell through. Your opponent can save a bunch of dice to counteract this, but doing so requires that he let a bunch of earlier spells go through. I think it is quite a nuanced magic item. Planning out your magic phase (spell order, dice allocation, etc.) becomes even more important. I am talking about the opponents magic phase. It will do less there then you think. First time an opponent face it it will be good but it will damper pretty fast as they learn. But in your own phase: in most sees you have 6-8 dice and only 2 viable spells. And yes chalice will force dispel on first spell. But you should get 1 spell anyway. Okay, I had misunderstood. That makes sense. I'd still argue that forcing your opponent to choose one style of playing his magic phase is a good thing. And even still, I believe there are some mind games to be played, though I could be mistaken, I haven't actually played the item. Also, there might not always be an obvious 6 dice spell to cast (because of spell selection, range, etc.). The fact that the chalice works well in both the Chaos Dwarf's magic phase and that of the opponent is pretty solid. |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 14, 2019 0:43:28 GMT
It's not a magic item per say but I think the Blood of Hashut should be included here as it's a unique to LOA option. One of the few things that can make a heavily armored Doombull, Vampire Lord or Daemon Prince crap their pants so is noteworthy for this reason. I'm glad it's an option for the mighty prophet. I have only inflicted it on myself  Hahaha classic. I've been lucky in that sense. The risk makes the points cost about right in my estimation. |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 14, 2019 1:03:41 GMT
I am more interested in the wording on black hammer. What does killed outright mean? No AS? No WS? Regeneration? I can’t find any explanation. Except killing blow is explained. " Any Flammable model successfully wounded is killed outright"The way I read it is that if you successfully wound a Flammable target, it is simply removed from play (instead of merely suffering a single wound as normal). By "successfully wound" I think they mean that the target has failed their armour/ward/regeneration saves. In my eyes... wounding the target + target failing saves = successful wound If that wasn't the case (and saves did not apply) there would be no need to include the word "successful". It could simply read: "any Flammable model wounded is killed outright". |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 14, 2019 1:24:29 GMT
I am more interested in the wording on black hammer. What does killed outright mean? No AS? No WS? Regeneration? I can’t find any explanation. Except killing blow is explained. " Any Flammable model successfully wounded is killed outright"The way I read it is that if you successfully wound a Flammable target, it is simply removed from play (instead of merely suffering a single wound as normal). By "successfully wound" I think they mean that the target has failed their armour/ward/regeneration saves. In my eyes... wounding the target + target failing saves = successful wound If that wasn't the case (and saves did not apply) there would be no need to include the word "successful". It could simply read: "any Flammable model wounded is killed outright". Yeah that's how I play it. My prophet has claimed 2 Tomb Kings with his Black Hammer. I allowed them to attempt saves. Ash Storm on a unit of ASL monstrous infantry (ie Ironguts) with poor armour saves and the Black Hammer is ideal. It did occur to me when I was thinking up various End Times battles/scenarios that it wouldn't be so hard to take out the 12 wound Glottkin in this manner. |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Mar 24, 2019 5:19:26 GMT
Here is a fun little "trick" with the Dark Mace. Give it to your Sorcerer-Prophet on a Bale Taurus and purposely expose your flank to an expensive single wound cavalry unit (think Chaos Knights or Blood Knights, etc.). Once in combat, activate its special ability and instantly wipe out the whole unit/first rank (since every model will be in base contact).
The maneuver is dependent on how your group plays the item. Some people argue that it can be activated at any time, while others state that it must be activated in initiative order. If you're playing it by initiative order, then it might be too risky to employ.
In any event, it is far too expensive and situational to be fielded in a competitive list, but it is something funny I came across.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 26, 2019 6:12:24 GMT
Here is a fun little "trick" with the Dark Mace. Give it to your Sorcerer-Prophet on a Bale Taurus and purposely expose your flank to an expensive single wound cavalry unit (think Chaos Knights or Blood Knights, etc.). Once in combat, activate its special ability and instantly wipe out the whole unit/first rank (since every model will be in base contact). The maneuver is dependent on how your group plays the item. Some people argue that it can be activated at any time, while others state that it must be activated in initiative order. If you're playing it by initiative order, then it might be too risky to employ. In any event, it is far too expensive and situational to be fielded in a competitive list, but it is something funny I came across. The Dark Mace is brutal. While I've never used it with my Chaos Dwarfs a custom homebrew unit in Angron the Red Primarch (yes that Angron!) has the item so I've used it a bit. A classic was with a unit if White Lions to the front and a unit of Swordmasters in the flank, both 5 wide. Dark Mace activated and 10 elves dead instantly including the 2 unit champions. Good stuff. |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Apr 18, 2019 6:34:40 GMT
I've unfortunately never tried it but in a mega battle (5000 points + a side) I'd love to try the Ashak flask against Dwarfs, Skaven, Chaos Dwarfs or Empire. It's on my 'one day' list  18 inch range is massive and D6 wounds is nothing to sneeze at. I think the bigger the size of the battle the more potential this item has. I mean you are potentially getting 36 inches worth of war machines/chariots which is simply massive. In one of those super 10k points + per size battles I'd consider it a must take depending on the army. |
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Post by TheGreatHornedRat on May 13, 2019 18:25:05 GMT
Stone MantleIt is a little steep at 40 points for a pip of toughness, but Chaos Dwarfs have to take toughness tests with very expensive models! You could use it to protect the Daemonsmith Sorcerer from toughness tests, as you would increase his toughness from 4 to 5. It would prevent him from taking a scroll or the chalice though. It wouldn't help your Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness tests since his toughness is already 5 and a natural roll of 6 is always considered a fail. However if you did have the item on him AND you failed your Sorcerer's Curse toughness test (and survived), you would have a Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness 7! Let the Screaming Bells ring with glee! |
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Post by strutsagget on May 13, 2019 18:30:21 GMT
You could use it to protect the Daemonsmith Sorcerer from toughness tests, as you would increase his toughness from 4 to 5. It would prevent him from taking a scroll or the chalice though. It wouldn't help your Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness tests since his toughness is already 5 and a natural roll of 6 is always considered a fail. However if you did have the item on him AND you failed your Sorcerer's Curse toughness test (and survived), you would have a Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness 7! Let the Screaming Bells ring with glee! That’s just mean... I hate that bell and it’s a reason I love hellcannon with only T6 |
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Post by TheGreatHornedRat on May 13, 2019 18:35:28 GMT
It's something to take into account for sure if you're playing against Skaven and they have a bell.
I might edit my post on Hellcannnon vs Dreadquake to reflect that as well; sometimes being T6 is better than being T7. (who knew?) (is the dreadquake T7? I assume so being a warmachine)
I'm honestly REALLY looking forward to the day where I start playing games large enough to bring two bells. It's such an amazing kit and a great looking model.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on May 13, 2019 21:33:37 GMT
You could use it to protect the Daemonsmith Sorcerer from toughness tests, as you would increase his toughness from 4 to 5. It would prevent him from taking a scroll or the chalice though. It wouldn't help your Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness tests since his toughness is already 5 and a natural roll of 6 is always considered a fail. However if you did have the item on him AND you failed your Sorcerer's Curse toughness test (and survived), you would have a Sorcerer-Prophet with toughness 7! Let the Screaming Bells ring with glee! Only if it hasn't been shot off the board!  |
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Post by TheGreatHornedRat on May 13, 2019 21:45:03 GMT
Agreed! In my experience the bell is usually target priority #2, right after the Hellpit Abomination.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on May 13, 2019 21:56:14 GMT
Agreed! In my experience the bell is usually target priority #2, right after the Hellpit Abomination. Yeah... those Hellpits are scary. They definitely have to go! I think CD have quite few tools at their disposal to do so. |
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Post by strutsagget on May 14, 2019 5:21:45 GMT
I find doom wheel most annoying. And then cannon. I have not faced hellpit that much though after my first game against Skaven where it charged my wild riders and died |
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