I can't seem to find anything supporting my claim. I found wither last night and were about to post it but fvon beat me to it
I change my mind and would also go with:
Both the general and the unit still count as having -1 leadership for the rest of the game
FvonSigmaringen I also try to find what happens to aug and hexes when characters leave the unit targetted by it. Think you earlier said it stopped affecting the character (AshStorm) where is the difference here
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Apr 12, 2019 10:00:41 GMT
That is correct. The difference lies in the duration of the spells. As you know, there are spells that are cast instantly, remain in play, and last for more than one turn.
If one follows the Skaven FAQ, Wither and similar spells would be spells that last more than one turn, in casu until the end of the game.
As NIGHTBRINGER already quoted above, in the case of spells that remain in place, or that last more than one turn, BRB p. 97 specifies: “When a character joins a unit that is under the effect of a spell that affects the entire unit, the character only benefits or suffers from the effects of the spell whilst he remains in the unit.” And vice versa: “Similarly, if a character is the subject of a spell that is capable of affecting a unit, the effect will also apply to any unit he joins, for as long as he remains part of it, and the spell lasts.”
One can easily see that the Skaven FAQ goes against this rule, but without justification for doing so. You may perhaps remember from another thread that I am always a bit weary of using Skaven FAQ, because:
- they are AB specific - an AB that is still 7th edition - and the Skaven AB, to boot.
If we disregard the Skaven FAQ, one comes to a somewhat different conclusion. In my opinion, spells like Dark Subjugation (and, indeed, Wither itself) are spells that are cast instantly. The fact that a spell is cast instantly does not mean it cannot have permanent effects, the most obvious and common example being the effect of Wounds lost or Wounds regained. Once cast, these spells are no longer active on the target, but that does not change the fact that the result on the target is permanent. So, characters that are part of the unit at the time Dark Subjugation is cast, have been targeted by the spell. Since the result of the spell is permanent, they will retain the malus, even if they leave the unit, just as if they had lost/regained Wounds as a result of a spell. However, this also means, that characters who join that unit in subsequent turns do not suffer the malus (contrary to the Skaven FAQ).
Ash Storm, on the other hand, is a spell that last more than one turn, and thus is subject to the BRB rule on p.97.
Admittedly, the BRB is a rather hazy, when distinguishing between a spell and its effects in this regard. The French version is once again a bit clearer. I hope that I have been clear enough in expressing my views.
The topic at hand is the best lore of magic for a Sorcerer-Prophet. Which lore has served you best? Which is your go to lore in a general (non-tailored) list? What do you like most about the lore? Why is it better for you than the others?
For the poll itself, consider the question in the context of an all-comers list. However, in the thread, feel free to expand upon opponent specific alternative choices!
Vote and discuss!
Given the current posts in the main forum about the WOC high power level and the annoying unkillability and manoeuvrability of the famed and feared Hortennse Disk Lord...........
I thought I'd do a call back to this thread and my selection of the Lore of Hashut as my favourite for a Sorcerer Prophet.
If you can cast Ash Storm on the Hortennse Lord it completely neuters the bugger down to a well deserved movement of 1 due to the disk he rides.
But I agree - Lore of Hashut. You're pretty much the only model across all army books that can take that exclusive, and very scary lore (short range aside), why wouldn't you take it?
Nothing wrong with lore of Hashut but it still not even close to as powerful as lore of death. Compare number of games won by lore of death purple sun and hashut ash storm :/ compare S6 with no range fireball to LD 10 spirit leach.
With that said lore of hashut is fun and fluffy and that’s the reason you play it.
Post by TheGreatHornedRat on May 8, 2019 16:56:16 GMT
Look at the number of armies that have access to Purple Sun and have used it to win games vs the number of armies that have Lore of Hashut and have used it to win games.
That's like saying more people die each year due to bee stings than shark attacks. LOOK AT WHERE HUMANS LIVE - of course that's the case literally BILLIONS more people are exposed to bees than sharks every year.
I'm not trying to claim that one is better than the other - but purple sun spam was a huge reason people HATED 8th edition (well, at least the magic phase anyway) and were quick to jump ship to AoS when it came out. If it means the difference between a fun game and making my opponent not want to play anymore than of course I'm going to take what's fun. You are right though that Lore of Death is probably the more deadly choice.
Personally I won't ever take lore of death unless my opponent is well prepared for it, even then I probably wouldn't take Purple Sun, even if I rolled it (and my regular opponent these days plays lizardmen ) - plus I've always felt icky after using that spell against someone.
Not sure if the smiley is to denote seriousness but...I don't think purple sun was exaggerated. It was a serious consideration/concern for any competitive list building at the time.
Anecdotal I know, but in a Storm of magic game I watched that single spell destroy two 30+ units of Saurus and a Slann with a single casting. If that's not cause for worry or concern I don't know what is