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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 9, 2020 17:23:22 GMT
The number of hits do not necessarily equal number of tests. The condition for the test is to have been hit - as such it does not matter how many times you have been hit. That said, I stumbled on the similar "Enshrouded by Fog" special rule of the Skaven Plague Furnace (Skaven AB, p. 49): "Enshrouded by Fog – In combat the Plague Furnace becomes wreathed in a deadly fog. At the start of any close combat, any unit (friend or foe) touching the Plague Furnace suffers D6 automatic hits distributed as per shooting . This includes the unit pushing the Plague Furnace. Each model hit must pass a Toughness test or suffer a single wound, with no armour save allowed. These wounds count towards combat resolution." Which sparked the following FAQ: Skaven Official Update Version 1.7, p.7: Q: If a model is hit more than once by an “Enshrouded By Fog” attack, does it suffer 1 wound for each Toughness test that is failed (p49) A: Yes. However, as I indicated in tempore non suspecto, I am not really a fan of using Skaven rules as precedents, since - they are AB specific - an AB that is still 7th edition - and the Skaven AB, to boot. But to each his own.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 9, 2020 17:37:21 GMT
Seems like the FAQ writer was held at knife point by a Skaven, lol.
"write write 'yes yes', or stab stab"
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Post by tileag on Mar 9, 2020 23:21:17 GMT
Thanks forthe replies everyone. In the end my opponent never put Galrauch into combat so the challenge never happened. Still nice to know for the future
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 10, 2020 13:04:45 GMT
Yes, I had noticed that in your batrep. Regarding the Skaven FAQ: as it stands, it is badly phrased. If I were to put up my rules lawyer's wig, I could argue that it does not actually contradict multiple hits = 1 test. If you have to take only one test, then you still suffer 1 wound for each Toughness test that is failed. They should have phrased it something like this: Q: If a model is hit more than once by an “Enshrouded By Fog” attack, does it need to pass a Toughness test for each hit.(p49) A: Yes.
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Post by Horace on Mar 10, 2020 15:18:37 GMT
Because its a shooting attack made by a template. In combat you would do 2d6 iterations 😉 Why? You cause 2D6 hits. Any model hit must pass a toughness test.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 10, 2020 16:51:58 GMT
If using it via shooting (the written rule of the breath itself) it'd be 1 Test ofc - templates can only hit 1 model at a time.
In combat it's 2d6 times, as per the breath weapon rules in BRB.
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Post by Horace on Mar 10, 2020 17:06:50 GMT
There is not really anything to support that.
It states "any model hit must pass a Toughness test.."
"a" singular and "test" singular.
As with breath weapon attacks made in the Shooting phase, the Strength and any special effects of the creature's Breath Weapon will be covered in its rules
So it has no strength and uses the special effect covered in it's rules, which states if a model is hit, it takes a toughness test.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 11, 2020 1:11:44 GMT
2D6 of them
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 11, 2020 9:46:45 GMT
We are moving in circles now, but I guess @discoqing is hit for 2D six...
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Post by Horace on Mar 11, 2020 10:02:33 GMT
2D6 of them Just repeating 2D6 is not really a convincing argument. I don't see how it over-rides the fact it tells you to take a singular toughness test if the model has been hit.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 11, 2020 10:08:15 GMT
The breath rule is for the ranged attack. It's singular because its a template.
In combat breath weapons generate 2d6 hits instead. It's really not that hard, guys.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 11, 2020 10:52:09 GMT
That,however, is incorrect. As already explained above: Most Breath Weapons simply do not (and do not need to) distinguish between Shooting and CC, and their rules therefore apply to both. To take Breath of Change: "Breath of Change is a Breath Weapon. Any models hit must pass a Toughness test or be removed from play with no saves of any kind allowed." This applies to both shooting AND CC. Hence, [...]the special effect is the same in Shooting and CC: any models hit (whether once or multiple times) must pass a Toughness test. That is the more obvious reading of the phrase. Your reading of that particular phrase, while not impossible, is less likely. Normally, that would (and should) have been expressed by "For each hit, a model must pass etc." or somesuch. The fact that you can only hit one model in a challenge does not need to be compensated by having more tests for that model. But, as I said, we are moving in circles.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 11, 2020 14:30:56 GMT
To add perhaps a [real world] example:
Rabid dogs: any man bitten must pass a rabies test or be vaccinated.
Now, it matters not, whether the man was bitten once or 2D6 times: he still needs to take only one test, and, if he fails the test, will only be vaccinated once.
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Post by DiscoQing on Mar 11, 2020 15:54:30 GMT
Is the dog in a challenge though?
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Post by Horace on Mar 12, 2020 7:31:38 GMT
The breath rule is for the ranged attack. It's singular because its a template. In combat breath weapons generate 2d6 hits instead. It's really not that hard, guys. It specifically states to use the rules. Nowhere does it tell you to do it differently. Breath of change does not have the standard 2d6 strength x effect because it has its own special rule. Take A toughness test or die
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