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Post by frozenfood on Mar 20, 2016 17:28:47 GMT
In the last two years my mate and I have never lost with high elves. I played a shooty he list, a fully mounted, white lion horde, dragon princes,etc
Empire, OnG and Skaven have never beaten them. It's not purely the player since we both play the different armies.
As I understand it, he are not even top tier so how have you guys ever beaten them?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 21, 2016 1:26:05 GMT
In the last two years my mate and I have never lost with high elves. I played a shooty he list, a fully mounted, white lion horde, dragon princes,etc Empire, OnG and Skaven have never beaten them. It's not purely the player since we both play the different armies. As I understand it, he are not even top tier so how have you guys ever beaten them? Attrition is the key to breaking the High Elves. They can dish it out but can't really take it. Grind the pansy elves to dirt is how its done! Unless you have a good start against them you need to be the Nate Diaz to their Conor Mcgregor...... take them into deep water and strangle them. Extra ranks vs high elves helps as they will strike hard and fast with ASF. If you have the numbers to blund their initial attack you should be able to hurt them on the counter. T3 army wide is their weakness. HE are not a mid tier army, they are a very powerful army. Strength 5 is the bane of the elves themselves. Artillery and impact hits hurt them especially. Doom Divers for OnG are one of the very best investments vs High Elves. Even empire mortars which are supposed to be very poor often pay off vs high elves.... especially if you can drop their toughness  High Elves can be annoying but are very beatable. |
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Post by dannytee on Mar 21, 2016 23:01:43 GMT
I generally struggle to beat high elves in tournament settings with my dwarves. But of course in tournaments I am making an all comers list. Ballistic skill based shooting is good vs high elves as they have a high cost per model, low toughness and low armor.
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 22, 2016 10:48:05 GMT
Yeah but cannons don't kill that many. His archers are much better and usually have a better range. I once made a perfect skaven list with poison gutter runners, skitterleap, slaves,the works. He still managed to win...
Since we swap armies I'm not that frustrated but we usually just don't play them anymore since they always win.
Wonder how my new ogre army would fare?
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Post by KevinC on Mar 22, 2016 13:03:42 GMT
In the last two years my mate and I have never lost with high elves. I played a shooty he list, a fully mounted, white lion horde, dragon princes,etc Empire, OnG and Skaven have never beaten them. This is surprising to me because I believe Empire, O&G, and Skaven are the best armies to beat High Elves. I agree with grandmaster, RE: attrition. These armies have the equipment, war machine, and numbers to defeat High Elves. Basically, you want to shoot/magic/impact hits their deadly units (i.e. White Lions, Swordmasters, etc.) as much as possible. Slowly but surely whittle their numbers done. Chariots are great against Elves. Don't worry about winning combat with them. Send chariots into their elite units as a kind of suicide attack. The chariot will likely be destroyed or routed, but not before it delivers its impact hits. Every single Elven Elite trooper that dies is a massive victory over the Elves. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 22, 2016 13:32:59 GMT
I struggle with High Elf match-ups cause they are so fast (nimbly bimbly to use a phrase).
Not only do they hit hard, they tend to get to choose their match-ups.
I have fond memories of my HUGE block of Dwarf Clansmen slowly grinding away an Elite Elf unit.
But those memories are from 5th or 6th edition. It depends on the scenario.
My recent (8th edition) tournament memories against High Elf opponents are:
Positioning battles, I try to set traps for his bigger units.
Dancing around. We both avoid a full blown bloodshed.
Usually, I kill a small unit of Reavers and a bolt Thrower.
They kill 1 or 2 medium sized units.
They edge me by 50 to 250 victory points.
I don't think I've ever "Beaten" a real block of Swordmasters.
I always felt that they were just an amazing unit. They hit SOOOO hard.
Best Suggestion:
Flying monsters are good. Breath weapons are good. Thunderstomp is GREAT versus Elf Infantry.
Auto-hitting and killing on 2+s is a great way to nuke 20pt infantry models.
And Elf armies lack the S10 D6W causing cannons that are the bane of big flying monsters.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 22, 2016 13:34:57 GMT
Basically, you want to shoot/magic/impact hits their deadly units (i.e. White Lions, Swordmasters, etc.) as much as possible... Chariots are great against Elves. Don't worry about winning combat with them. Send chariots into their elite units as a kind of suicide attack. The chariot will likely be destroyed or routed, but not before it delivers its impact hits. Every single Elven Elite trooper that dies is a massive victory over the Elves. Yes, I agree. +1 KevinCGoblin chariots are particularly effective at this due to low points. |
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 22, 2016 13:52:22 GMT
Hmm chariots, abominations, firebellies, I like it. I should probably try and take out his archer units one by one and ignore the botwd unit till all else is killed. It's been a while, perhaps we should try again :-)
Any other pointers?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 23, 2016 10:05:55 GMT
Hmm chariots, abominations, firebellies, I like it. I should probably try and take out his archer units one by one and ignore the botwd unit till all else is killed. It's been a while, perhaps we should try again :-) Any other pointers? What was he shooting at with his archers usually? Also how many archers was this guy running in his list. Firebellies will have a good time vs elves.... mmmmm crispy fried pansy Depending on what long range attacks he has the Thundertusk is actually really nice vs elves (if it's alive to do its thing). The asl of the ice blast is a game changer! Ogres striking before elves is a lol. |
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 23, 2016 11:34:02 GMT
He had one shooty list with all archer core. Even with low strength they eventually kill most before I can get there.
I should concentrate on killing the archer units first, they die easier :-)
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 26, 2016 7:29:56 GMT
Oooh oooh,
My Ogres will be fighting them next!
Any suggestions?
I'm expecting an Ice chicken and lots of Silver Helms?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 27, 2016 4:13:44 GMT
Oooh oooh, My Ogres will be fighting them next! Any suggestions? I'm expecting an Ice chicken and lots of Silver Helms? Beware the Ice Chicken! Try and kill it before it hits combat if you can! Seriously beware the Ice Chicken! Make sure you have at least 2 sabretusks as redirectors. Silverhelms aren't that bad to deal with imo. Impact hits and breath weapons will be your best friend. |
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Post by frozenfood on Mar 27, 2016 8:00:43 GMT
My breath weapons (banner and firebelly) will hit after the pointy eared wussies right? So they need to survive the first attack. I'm thinking leadbelchers, mournfang,scraplaunchers and lots of defensive magic items
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Post by dannytee on Mar 27, 2016 23:49:52 GMT
I think mournfang would be good here as you say, just don't charge them into the front of white lions or swordmasters (flank or rear would be ok). They should do fine against pheonix guard or spearmen to the front. The cannon chariot would probably be your best bet for taking out the ice chicken (as grandmasterwang calls it).
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