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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 3, 2022 18:51:50 GMT
Is he just getting lucky to a point (how many actual games have you played where this has happened?)? If he rolls an average 7 and he throws 6 dice at the spell and it fails or you dispel it, he just lost an entire magic phase...hence depending on those spells is not a sound tactic. It's more like gambling. I've played hundreds of games of WFB 8th, and the times I lost because of those spell can pretty much be counted on one hand. It happens roughly 50% of games we play. He likes to record them, and it got to the point where every one he recorded the tactics worked, and vice versa. Damn I want his magic camera. Are the recordings just for his record or are they on Youtube somewhere for us eeflers to witness your pain? |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Aug 3, 2022 19:26:12 GMT
I haven't played much Warhammer before 8th, but I am extremely frustrated with the way magic works, specifically the Pit of Shades/Dweller's Below style spells. There is only one guy in town who plays, and his usual strategy is to constantly six die those spells, thinking they are the best way to win the game. I find this to make the game pretty boring, since the result usually is either (1) its completely ineffective and his strategy falls apart or (2) its too effective and the game is over. He knows my opinion on this but won't change his playstyle. I don't know if I am missing something which I should be doing against this (please tell me if so); its starting to sour me to the edition specifically because of the magic phase. A scroll caddy can delay it for a round, but I don't think that's enough unless I am playing something like dwarves which can effectively take multiple ones. Just as an example, I got a new army I was trying out for the first time earlier today, and we ended up rolling Meeting Engagement where my wizard started off the table (had the Talisman of Preservation and the Book of Hoeth). He went first, and casted Dwellers on an elite infantry brick which ended up panicking off the table after half of them and my BSB were dead. Next turn he used it on my wizard's unit and killed them. His wizard has killed more than half of my army pointswise before my second turn. Sorry for spamming eefl.. last post on this in a row...as this issue resonates. So on dwellers especially, if he is a dwellers fiend....I've played one guy only waaay back a few times who was like this but ended up trying something which kinda worked and made him change up his approach and he ended up being a much better opponent. Unfortunately moved away but what can you do... I wouldn't deploy my characters in the units but would put them in only after turn 2. They would be close for LOS but independent. In the example you had he cast dwellers on your elite unit including Bsb, killed half the unit including bsb and they fled. While it's not optimal for normal Warhammer Fantasy 8th edition...next time you play Mr Dwellers don't deploy your mage OR your bsb in your units and they are immune to it. Sure you still lose half your elite unit but likely pass your leadership test and lore of life cannot snipe characters really well. So basically rather than 2 dwellers targets he has 4. Psychologically having no important character in a unit makes 6 dicing dwellers far less attractive so in your instance I really think it's worth a shot as he is your only opponent option. He may target the character (50/50 on a high elf so still worth it if he nukes your mage or bsb but then your unit is untouched. Basically it makes him think twice about playing the way he is currently and if you are lucky he'll start playing around with other lores/spells....realise he is having more fun and you'll 'cure' an instant kill 6 dicer. Goodluck! I really mean it. |
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Post by Lizards_of_Renown on Aug 3, 2022 22:19:42 GMT
I stand by my statement on if he's not willing to change then reach out on this forum and see if you can find another person to play with.
I have particular beef with people play with unsportsmanlike conduct like this.
If you're doing a tournament, fine. You're going to do anything to win, but people will be expecting this. Not in casual play.
I think what might impinge on him is saying that if he doesn't want to start having a gentleman's point of view on the game, then you'll stop playing with him?
Up to you obviously.
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Post by burningriver on Aug 8, 2022 20:03:52 GMT
It happens roughly 50% of games we play. He likes to record them, and it got to the point where every one he recorded the tactics worked, and vice versa. Damn I want his magic camera. Are the recordings just for his record or are they on Youtube somewhere for us eeflers to witness your pain? Specific game is here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7AfQ6VH6cAI haven't punished myself to watch it, but we have a lot of games on that channel. The rest of the recent ones where I played dwarfs worked much better, but he was playing Chaos a lot and didn't have the same luck. |
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Post by KevinC on Aug 9, 2022 13:26:43 GMT
Damn I want his magic camera. Are the recordings just for his record or are they on Youtube somewhere for us eeflers to witness your pain? Specific game is here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7AfQ6VH6cAI haven't punished myself to watch it, but we have a lot of games on that channel. The rest of the recent ones where I played dwarfs worked much better, but he was playing Chaos a lot and didn't have the same luck. --------Ah it's you guys - you do excellent videos. I think if you use tactics like I previous described to stop magic, you'll send the message. |
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Buxe
Full Member
Posts: 135
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Post by Buxe on Aug 11, 2022 9:11:21 GMT
Saw the video. After two Empire magic phases the core of the High Elf army was eliminated due to dwellers.
I'd try out the tactics others before me have pointed out: don't put all eggs in one basket, i.e. he has to split up his attacks on more targets. And try out some of the arcane items which directly target enemy wizards. The combination of these tactics should hopefully make him change his gameplay within a couple of games.
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najo
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by najo on Sept 12, 2022 2:39:43 GMT
There is two key issues occurring that are causing the issues for you. 1) Warhammer 8th has a weird learning gap with unit sizes, charging and magic. This causes new players to use deathstars and little to no supporting units, it causes players to mess up baiting and redirecting charges, and it causes players to double down on six-dicing those big unit destroying spells.
2) Your army is an elite army AND his army is bordering on being a horde army. Elite armies lack numbers. So they need to work with smaller units, make good tactical plays and minimize loses.
So, first off, while you learn the game and army, focus on your core units. Spearmen and archers. Ellyiran reavers. Silverhelms. Seaguard. Spread out your heroes. Leave the sisters and the everqueen alone for now. You are trying to get maximum number of bodies. Bolt throwers are fine too. Hero level characters. Take a couple wizards, use the same lore. Try either shadow, light or death. No hordes and spread your characters out. Play with variations of this over and over till you start killing his units and winning.
Now, as for tactics. Two things to practice. 1) identify his A B and C units. A units are ones that if killed, he looses. B units can hold a position and kill C units easily. C units are the weaker parts of his army that do not threaten you. Analyze this from both your side of the battle and then his side. The whole game, your goal is to hold up his A units with your C units. While your A units kill his B units and your B units kill his C units. Rinse and repeat until you table him.
Finally, learn what a denied flank is and master it. Elven cavalry is good at this tactic.
You get these basics down, and then you can add in various special and rare units and lords to learn the full scope of your army.
Good luck. Let me know if you have any questions.
Oh, and since its warhammer 8th. Take a couple great eagles or 2-3 ellyiran reavers msu, and then learn how to redirect charges.
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