simon
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Posts: 150
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Post by simon on Aug 2, 2021 18:17:27 GMT
Quick rules question again: The Frenzy rule gives the Extra Attack rule. The rules for Cavalry state quite clearly that only the rider or the mount (whichever has the rule) gets the extra attack. However, the Khorne daemon ability called Greater Locus of Fury, the way it is written, appears to give Frenzy to every model in the unit and therefore could give an extra attack to the Juggernauts and the Bloodletter riders.....?
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 2, 2021 21:10:13 GMT
Usually in these circumstances the army book rules usually supercede the BRB. In this case the with the rule frenzy although the whole model will have bezerk rage the extra attack only applies to the part of the model that is frenzied. However, thinking about the locus I would say both elements of the cavalry model would benefit from the extra attack.
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Post by vulcan on Aug 3, 2021 1:24:31 GMT
IF the spell doesn't say it only gives Frenzy to one part of the model, it gives Frenzy to all parts of the model.
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Post by strutsagget on Aug 3, 2021 8:50:12 GMT
There is also something about the wording, even if both have frenzy you only get one total extra attack per model.
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 3, 2021 9:59:58 GMT
Yeah, however in the BRB the wording specifically states for cavalry if either the mount or the rider have frenzy then the model is subject to berserk rage but only the part that has frenzy gets the extra attack. Therefore, if say the horse was frenzied then both the horse and rider get the benefit of being immune to psychology. However, the horse would get both ItP and extra attack rules whereas the rider would only get ItP. In the case of the greater locus of fury it states it gives it to all models. The grey area I suspect is that cavalry are considered a single model in all respects with two profiles. That aside I would say that the greater locus of fear rules supersedes this as it states all models and would effect both mount and rider. Which is why it's always good practice to take out daemon champs and heroes.
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 150
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Post by simon on Aug 3, 2021 10:58:24 GMT
There is also something about the wording, even if both have frenzy you only get one total extra attack per model. Is there a reference for that? |
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Post by strutsagget on Aug 3, 2021 11:06:36 GMT
Frenzy gives the extra attack rule and only one per model total.
”To represent their fighting fury and lack of self-preservation instincts, Frenzied troops have the Extra Attack and Immune to Psychology special rules (detailed elsewhere in this chapter).”
”EXTRA ATTACK
Through fury, extra limbs or being armed to the teeth, this warrior can strike more blows.
A model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that bestows this special rule) increases his Attacks value by 1. Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Extra Attack special rules are cumulative.”
So the arguing is the same as wood elves wild riders.
No on is saying anything else then both the rider and the steed have frenzy. You still only get one more attack added to the profile but you can choose where to add it rider/steed. As both rider and steed together is considered one model.
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Post by oldmandan on Aug 3, 2021 14:43:46 GMT
Out of curiosity if I cast Wyssans wildform on Wildriders the mounts also get a boost to strength don't they?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 3, 2021 15:09:35 GMT
oldmandan: yes. Generally, a spell that targets a unit, self-evidently targets every element of that unit, unless specifically stated otherwise. It is so self-evident that the BRB does not actually state it in the Magic section, but as an aside in the section about characters: BRB p. 100: "On the other hand, many spells and magic items bestow special rules and other effects on units. In this case, everyone (including the character) in the combined unit will be affected."
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Post by vulcan on Aug 4, 2021 1:56:29 GMT
Frenzy gives the extra attack rule and only one per model total. ”To represent their fighting fury and lack of self-preservation instincts, Frenzied troops have the Extra Attack and Immune to Psychology special rules (detailed elsewhere in this chapter).” ”EXTRA ATTACK Through fury, extra limbs or being armed to the teeth, this warrior can strike more blows. A model with this special rule (or who is attacking with a weapon that bestows this special rule) increases his Attacks value by 1. Unlike most special rules, the effects of multiple Extra Attack special rules are cumulative.” So the arguing is the same as wood elves wild riders. No on is saying anything else then both the rider and the steed have frenzy. You still only get one more attack added to the profile but you can choose where to add it rider/steed. As both rider and steed together is considered one model. Except both mounts and riders have full statlines... |
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