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Post by DiscoQing on Sept 27, 2021 14:13:40 GMT
Hi, Hopefully super easy... Please enjoy this piece of artwork I made to help demonstrate my question:  The red unit is a unit of Mournfang. The blue one is a unit of KotR with 3 Paladins in the front. The purple unit are 5 Yeomen. The Knights and the Yeomen charge (given previous positioning, they have both maxed the amount of models in base contact..). The knights have 2 models in contact with the mournfang, all 5 of the yeomen are in. The paladins strike first (I5) and kill a mournfang. The ogre player removes the mournfang on the left, with the arrow on it. Is this correct? If the ogre player removes the mournfang on the right instead, he is removing 2 yeomen from combat; So in either case 2 models are being removed, however the one on the left removes a whole unit. I have to say that it was eventually ruled in the bretonnian player's favour, as the knights on the flank count as being in base contact on the Charge (so more than 2 were being removed). But could the knights have been safely removed from combat if they weren't Bretonnians? Cheers |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 27, 2021 15:53:37 GMT
In this case, it does not matter which model you remove, since you need to keep as many units in CC as possible, as long as part of the enemy unit is alive. So, if the Mournfang on the right would be removed, you would nudge the Mournfang back into base contact with the KotR.
BRB p. 61 (Shrinking Units and Multiple Fights): "Occasionally, a situation can arise when one or more units are no longer in base contact with the enemy, but at least part of the enemy unit is still alive. This normally occurs when an enemy has been charged in the rear — as casualties come from the rear rank first, this would in theory leave the attackers stranded from their foe. Clearly this is wrong, just as warriors on a real battlefield would push on to continue the fight, and would not stop fighting if the enemy was standing a few paces away, so must warriors on the miniature battlefield.
Whenever a unit becomes stranded in this manner, the attacking unit is immediately nudged (by as small an amount as possible) to bring it back into contact with the foe. This move cannot be used to alter the facing the attacker is in base contact with, nor is it an opportunity to change the attacker's formation or charge a unit not engaged in the fight. If the attacker cannot be moved in this manner, then the defending unit is moved instead." [Italics mine]
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Post by rahotep75 on Sept 27, 2021 16:02:07 GMT
Removing casualties in order to prevent other models with a lower initiative from attacking is a perfectly valid tactic. Your particular situation would be resolved per the “Shrinking units and Multiple fights” section, where the units would be nudged back into base contact, assuming the appropriate break checks were taken.
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Post by DiscoQing on Sept 27, 2021 19:18:26 GMT
So that shrinking rule says you nudge the attacking unit as close as possible, which couldn't happen with just the knight Lance, the yeomen would have to nudge too(?).
The left mournfang being removed would literally remove all of the knight unit from combat - whilst the knight unit and the mournfang are both still alive.
In my mind, you keep as many models/units in base contact as possible, choosing to remove a model that removes an entire unit from combat when there is also an option to keep all the units in, seems... Wrong?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 27, 2021 21:13:36 GMT
As quoted and even emphasised in my previous post: "If the attacker cannot be moved in this manner, then the defending unit is moved instead." [Italics mine] Since the KotR cannot be moved into base contact, the Mournfang are moved into base contact instead. You do not need and, indeed, cannot, nudge the Yeomen. In this case, you simply slide the Mournfang into corner to corner contact with the KotR, thus maintaining base contact with both the KotR and the Yeomen.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 28, 2021 7:19:53 GMT
Note that saying "it does not matter which model you remove" was not quite correct. If you remove the right model, 2 Paladins and 2 KoTR could attack in the next turn; if you remove the left model and then nudge the Mournfang into corner to corner base contact with the KotR unit, only 1 Paladin and 1 KotR could attack. That to decide is, of course, up to the controlling player of the Mournfang.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 15, 2021 18:18:29 GMT
The only thing I’m going to add to this thread is how fantastic the visual aid is. Totally made my day! Hat off to you DiscoQing |
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Oct 15, 2021 21:01:24 GMT
I guess, they already played Warhammer in prehistoric times:  Seem to have used lots of skirmishers... |
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Post by DiscoQing on Oct 15, 2021 21:19:42 GMT
So glad my GCSE in art has FINALLY paid off!
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