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Post by johngg on Apr 17, 2023 14:59:36 GMT
I just built a unit of the new plastic Blood Knights yesterday, and can see why they'd change base sizes. There's no way they can realistically fit on 50x25mm cavalry bases without comical overhangs and elevation variations. I guess the main motivator then was to avoid restricting AoS model design while also ensuring the many kits that are equally valid for AoS/WFB can be used in The Old World as well. Agreed, it is 'possible' however I used mine as 'Undead' Demi-Gryphs and mounted them on 50x75 bases. Which, to be honest wasn't great either. I@m hazarding a guess that the Bret Knights shown recently are on something like 30x80 but who knows... yet!
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Post by johngg on Apr 17, 2023 15:02:55 GMT
Agreed. With the current base sizes and unit footprints, maneuvering on the battlefield is already tricky. Heck some armies have trouble just fitting everything into their deployment zone. Units on 25mm bases (Chaos warriors, Orcs, etc.) are less maneuverable compared to units on 20mm bases (humans, elves, dwarfs, etc.). Larger bases for everybody means larger unit footprints for everybody and more difficulty maneuvering for everybody. If they drop the model count per unit to compensate, the game will not be as appealing (though I could accept horde formation going away). So much yes! I'm pretty sure my 2500 Empire Army now won't fit along the long table edge in one long line. Totally not a gripe as I'll now have to adapt my deployment strategy and learn a new skill, good!
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Post by vulcan on Apr 17, 2023 15:04:54 GMT
More or less silly than one man actually being 200? Is that fence 200 fences as well? All a matter of taste really. Is that cannon really 200 cannon? Is that actually 200 dragons?
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Post by johngg on Apr 17, 2023 15:06:08 GMT
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Post by Darnok on Apr 17, 2023 15:26:47 GMT
TOW confirmed as a game featured on Warhammer Fest, which is April 29./30.:
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Post by sedge on Apr 17, 2023 15:45:37 GMT
Reasonably positive that it's billed as having the same "status" as the Horus Heresy. That gets a tab on GW's homepage, a fair number of plastic kits, and FW support for resin bits. I'll take that, along with good old WFB kits coming back.
Then when everyone buys lots of TOW stuff and AoS crashes, TOW can become the headline game, and AoS the niche one. A man can dream...
The fact they have a section on it then means we're almost certainly seeing shiny new TOW models unveiled.
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Post by gangland on Apr 17, 2023 16:03:04 GMT
Reasonably positive that it's billed as having the same "status" as the Horus Heresy. That gets a tab on GW's homepage, a fair number of plastic kits, and FW support for resin bits. I'll take that, along with good old WFB kits coming back. Then when everyone buys lots of TOW stuff and AoS crashes, TOW can become the headline game, and AoS the niche one. A man can dream... The fact they have a section on it then means we're almost certainly seeing shiny new TOW models unveiled. Man, at least in my area Fantasy is easier to find a game with than AoS seems to be. The fact that the AoS big edition box can be had for under $100 and most AoS sections on websites see very little activity... I don't think you are dreaming too big tbh.
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Post by KevinC on Apr 17, 2023 18:27:09 GMT
Regarding the bases...
While I'd really prefer things to stay the same...I want my models to work in WFB, GW is making the right decision. Ever since the end of WFB 5E there have been a fair amount of models that are difficult to rank up. This mainly started with the plastic regiments sets that began to come out during 5E and became prominent in 6E...such as Skaven, Goblins, Chaos Warriors etc.
So I don't believe the decision for larger bases is a gimmick, I believe it's a design choice they see is best for the game and the creation of new models. It appears to me that GW is really trying to make TOW as true to WFB as possible. In fact, the name change is probably only to distinguish it from AOS, which is now their premiere Warhammer fantasy game.
That said, there is no way I'm rebasing anything. I'll use different movement trays. If I start a brand new army for TOW, I will probably continue to base as WFB 8E.
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Mallo
Full Member
Posts: 244
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Post by Mallo on Apr 17, 2023 19:04:12 GMT
Reasonably positive that it's billed as having the same "status" as the Horus Heresy. That gets a tab on GW's homepage, a fair number of plastic kits, and FW support for resin bits. I'll take that, along with good old WFB kits coming back. Then when everyone buys lots of TOW stuff and AoS crashes, TOW can become the headline game, and AoS the niche one. A man can dream... The fact they have a section on it then means we're almost certainly seeing shiny new TOW models unveiled. Man, at least in my area Fantasy is easier to find a game with than AoS seems to be. The fact that the AoS big edition box can be had for under $100 and most AoS sections on websites see very little activity... I don't think you are dreaming too big tbh. For a time, I was big on AoS. Other than a couple of people in the local store, there is no AoS presence in the local area. The only people playing it are the local GW manager, his staffer and one or two of their club regulars. The other more local club to me is 40k only. The local stockist in town has a minimal selection (GW holding new stock hostage with their usual corporate BS) but the same AoS kits are always collecting dust. I think my misses is the only one to have brought AoS from them having wiped them out of the AoS start collecting sets for my WFB collection. I still drop by the actual AoS forum, even that sees very little traffic now. The most active threads are the rumours and news thread, and the old world thread. And yet...even as a tiny empty country, with a very small wargaming scene we have actually seen a group put on a 9th Age tournament weekend. To me, that speaks volumes about AoS here!
AoS was doomed the moment they announced the old world tbh. Even if GW keep pushing it as the main game, the old world is going to cannibalise sales.
Regarding the bases... While I'd really prefer things to stay the same...I want my models to work in WFB, GW is making the right decision. Ever since the end of WFB 5E there have been a fair amount of models that are difficult to rank up. This mainly started with the plastic regiments sets that began to come out during 5E and became prominent in 6E...such as Skaven, Goblins, Chaos Warriors etc. So I don't believe the decision for larger bases is a gimmick, I believe it's a design choice they see is best for the game and the creation of new models. It appears to me that GW is really trying to make TOW as true to WFB as possible. In fact, the name change is probably only to distinguish it from AOS, which is now their premiere Warhammer fantasy game. That said, there is no way I'm rebasing anything. I'll use different movement trays. If I start a brand new army for TOW, I will probably continue to base as WFB 8E. I'm not part of the 'tin foil hat' gang that seem to think this is a money making scheme, designed by GW to 'force' those folk with old armies to replace them with new bases or models. But I do find it strange that GW didn't announce the removal of 20mm bases when they knew it was going to happen. It can't have been a recent decision as someone had to have told the army painters, so enough time has been given for the teams to have all those new armies in time for the photography. It would have gone along way if GW had released the info of the removal of 20mm bases before they let people go all gung-ho on painting classic minis to use for the old world.
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Post by herjan1987 on Apr 18, 2023 10:10:32 GMT
Reasonably positive that it's billed as having the same "status" as the Horus Heresy. That gets a tab on GW's homepage, a fair number of plastic kits, and FW support for resin bits. I'll take that, along with good old WFB kits coming back. Then when everyone buys lots of TOW stuff and AoS crashes, TOW can become the headline game, and AoS the niche one. A man can dream... The fact they have a section on it then means we're almost certainly seeing shiny new TOW models unveiled. Dont worry at Bugmans Brewery ( Warhammer Dwarf forum ) we keep the Damaz Kron close so we can strike this grudge out as soon as it happens. Or else GW will fall by the hand of the Dwarfs Other thing GW might revailed under the radar, what is the new Tomb King Liche Priest. This bad boy has been made for Warhammer Chaosbane. Now if you compare it to this picture: , then you can see the similarities. I saw this on the internet so I would not like to take the credit.
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Post by KevinC on Apr 18, 2023 12:25:43 GMT
Man, at least in my area Fantasy is easier to find a game with than AoS seems to be. The fact that the AoS big edition box can be had for under $100 and most AoS sections on websites see very little activity... I don't think you are dreaming too big tbh. For a time, I was big on AoS. Other than a couple of people in the local store, there is no AoS presence in the local area. The only people playing it are the local GW manager, his staffer and one or two of their club regulars. The other more local club to me is 40k only. The local stockist in town has a minimal selection (GW holding new stock hostage with their usual corporate BS) but the same AoS kits are always collecting dust. I think my misses is the only one to have brought AoS from them having wiped them out of the AoS start collecting sets for my WFB collection. I still drop by the actual AoS forum, even that sees very little traffic now. The most active threads are the rumours and news thread, and the old world thread. And yet...even as a tiny empty country, with a very small wargaming scene we have actually seen a group put on a 9th Age tournament weekend. To me, that speaks volumes about AoS here!
AoS was doomed the moment they announced the old world tbh. Even if GW keep pushing it as the main game, the old world is going to cannibalise sales.
Regarding the bases... While I'd really prefer things to stay the same...I want my models to work in WFB, GW is making the right decision. Ever since the end of WFB 5E there have been a fair amount of models that are difficult to rank up. This mainly started with the plastic regiments sets that began to come out during 5E and became prominent in 6E...such as Skaven, Goblins, Chaos Warriors etc. So I don't believe the decision for larger bases is a gimmick, I believe it's a design choice they see is best for the game and the creation of new models. It appears to me that GW is really trying to make TOW as true to WFB as possible. In fact, the name change is probably only to distinguish it from AOS, which is now their premiere Warhammer fantasy game. That said, there is no way I'm rebasing anything. I'll use different movement trays. If I start a brand new army for TOW, I will probably continue to base as WFB 8E. I'm not part of the 'tin foil hat' gang that seem to think this is a money making scheme, designed by GW to 'force' those folk with old armies to replace them with new bases or models. But I do find it strange that GW didn't announce the removal of 20mm bases when they knew it was going to happen. It can't have been a recent decision as someone had to have told the army painters, so enough time has been given for the teams to have all those new armies in time for the photography. It would have gone along way if GW had released the info of the removal of 20mm bases before they let people go all gung-ho on painting classic minis to use for the old world. --------------But it's not a money making scheme...a player does not need to change base sizes, one can simply place them on a tray or piece of cardboard. When it comes to announcements, they have to be guarded. There are a lot of fantasy miniatures ranges out there, plus all the 3D print stuff. I'm not convinced the new game will survive for more than a few years...
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Post by johngg on Apr 18, 2023 13:44:04 GMT
Chaps, why are we discussing the history of AoS? I have notheing against that game but its a completely different game.
That being said and picking up on an earlier point, TOW will be to Aos, what the HH is to 40K. This has been explicitly stated by GW.
So, shall we dispence of the unecessary history from almost 10 years ago and look forward to the new game coming...
just a thought
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Post by gangland on Apr 18, 2023 15:31:06 GMT
Chaps, why are we discussing the history of AoS? I have notheing against that game but its a completely different game. That being said and picking up on an earlier point, TOW will be to Aos, what the HH is to 40K. This has been explicitly stated by GW. So, shall we dispence of the unecessary history from almost 10 years ago and look forward to the new game coming... just a thought Well, you did just state that it isn't irrelevant and it was more about its current state than anything from 10 years ago... just saying. Regarding the currently discussed game though I am warming up slowly to the new base size, I figured it was going to happen, I'm starting to think it does lead to a few more positives and I don't see why 8th rules would be incompatible if more or less all bases are being rescaled. I guess a few less wounds for templates which may not be a bad thing? (this last part assumes both armies are on the new size, maybe someone with better knowledge on game mechanics can correct me.)
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Post by Horace on Apr 18, 2023 19:14:26 GMT
Not sure why people think you won't be able to work out base sizes with a movement tray? If you're really super bothered about working out the exact lines, just lightly etch the tray in the right spots before you paint it. Super easy.
I will probably 3d print these exact things. I'm sure someone will sell them.
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Post by thegoat on Apr 18, 2023 20:16:50 GMT
Not sure why people think you won't be able to work out base sizes with a movement tray? If you're really super bothered about working out the exact lines, just lightly etch the tray in the right spots before you paint it. Super easy. I will probably 3d print these exact things. I'm sure someone will sell them. Agreed. If you are somehow gaining an advantage when playing with true bases and losing that advantage when playing with an identically sized movement tray, then you are doing something seriously wrong.
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