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Post by thegoat on Jul 21, 2023 15:17:16 GMT
2023 is 40K 10th edition and Warhammer: The Horus Heresy – Legions Imperialis (what a horrible name!). I don't think they can squeeze in another full game launch for WH:TOW. I see a lot of youtubers promoting rumors of a late fall game launch. I have strong doubts that will happen. But seeing two game launches in 2023 implies GW can do two game launches in 2024 -- AoS 4th edition and WH:TOW. Bear in mind that they don’t really have to create a lot of “new” things for TOW, the rules systems are there already for them to tweak, pick and choose as they see fit, the models already exist for most armies in the spotlight (and those not in the spotlight). They may choose to push the release back if two large releases in a year is a bit cramped in terms of creating too much noise but in terms of having the capability it is possible. Having said all that, I would happily wait if it means a better fleshed out product at the end. I think the bottleneck is on the marketing side. I assume the models and rules are ready to go to production whenever GW decides to move forward with the launch.
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Post by johngg on Jul 24, 2023 11:15:14 GMT
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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2023 13:28:52 GMT
Wildwood Rangers make perfectly good Executioners, once they accept Malekith as the rightful King of all Elvendom, upgrade their armour, start worshipping Khaine, and don Halloween masks.
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Post by johngg on Jul 24, 2023 14:32:27 GMT
Wildwood Rangers make perfectly good Executioners, once they accept Malekith as the rightful King of all Elvendom, upgrade their armour, start worshipping Khaine, and don Halloween masks. ahh in this case, I fully agree.
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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2023 15:11:55 GMT
Rules news: www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/old-world-development-diary-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same/Old World Development Diary – The More Things Change, the More they Stay the Same… The Old World team are back again with another Development Diary, this time with an exciting look at some of the change to the rules from previous iterations of Warhammer.
When we embarked upon the daunting task of designing Warhammer: The Old World, we wanted to create a modern game in the mould of Warhammer Fantasy Battle*, a reimagining of a classic tabletop wargame that would appeal to both veterans of the Old World and newcomers to this most venerable of fantasy realms alike. With this in mind, we set about playing lots of games.** For several months the designers regularly assembled to play games of every edition of Warhammer Fantasy Battle, reminding ourselves of rules that in some cases we hadn’t played for decades. We wanted to identify which parts of a classic game we enjoyed the most, and which parts we felt could be improved upon. Here are some of the tweaks we’ve made to the rules. Drawing the Battlelines
Warhammer: the Old World is a game of massed combat. Large armies form into regimented units that advance with grim intent towards the foe. The rules encourage players to field units of varying size based on their type and role. Perhaps most importantly, the formations units adopt (how wide or deep they are) are just as significant as where they are deployed and how quickly they advance. The rules encourage units with wide frontages, but the ideal number of models per rank is decided by the player, not enforced by the rules. To do this, we’ve ensured that as many models as possible can fight in combat, giving even those models that are within the fighting rank but not in base contact with the enemy the opportunity to bring their weapons to bear. Combined with the freedom to create and arm characters as you choose from a wide range of options, players have a lot of strategic choices to make when building their units and writing their muster lists, choices that will, in turn, inform their tactics on the battlefield. Breaking the Enemy
One thing we were keen for Warhammer: the Old World to represent was the push and pull of battle, capturing the way in which a hard-pressed army will gradually succumb to fatigue and attrition. To achieve this, units that lose a round of combat will often give ground reluctantly rather than immediately breaking and fleeing, while the winner can advance to press their advantage. Players will quickly learn, however, that a cunning enemy will use this push and pull of battling units to lay traps, and an advancing unit runs the risk of exposing a vulnerable flank to a well-timed counter charge! The Power of Magic
Magic is integral to the game, though the mechanics of its use are simple. The untutored Wizards of the Old World practise strange Lores of Magic of their own devising, manipulating the Winds of Magic and crafting spells that suit their purpose. While such recklessness might alarm some, it gives Wizards freedom to cast a wide range of spells with ease. To reflect this, spellcasting has been liberated and spread throughout the different phases of the game, rather than restricted to just one. In doing so, we’ve ensured that every spell available to a Wizard can have a significant impact upon the battle if cast in the right place and at the right time. Situations where a single spell can decide the outcome of a battle are rare. The focus has shifted from keeping track of dice pools or hands of cards onto the positioning of Wizards. This means players will have to plan ahead, moving their Wizards as carefully as any other unit, both to ensure they can bring their magic to the right place at the right time, and to ensure they can counter the spells of enemy Wizards. Final Thoughts
These exciting game mechanics, and many more besides, combined with classic elements of a beloved game, give players both old and new plenty to consider when planning their armies and mastering their tactics. It’s an exciting time, and we’re really looking forward to seeing the serried ranks of fantasy armies marching across gaming tables once more! * An early name for the game set in the Old World, it had previously been Warhammer the Mass Combat Fantasy Role-playing Game, then Warhammer Fantasy Battle Rules among others, before finally becoming Warhammer the Game of Fantasy Battles
** It’s a tough job, but someone’s gotta do it…
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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2023 15:20:01 GMT
Worth noting that the pictures show models on the new base sizes - i.e. they're new photos. So we can assume 1) those models will be available again (great!) but also 2) those models aren't due to be replaced any time soon with new kits (not so great).
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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2023 15:24:29 GMT
Key rule highlights:
1) "we’ve ensured that as many models as possible can fight in combat, giving even those models that are within the fighting rank but not in base contact with the enemy the opportunity to bring their weapons to bear." - a big change to counter deep tarpit units.
2) "To achieve this, units that lose a round of combat will often give ground reluctantly rather than immediately breaking and fleeing, while the winner can advance to press their advantage." - that section strongly suggests a unit that loses a combat but doesn't break will be pushed backwards. That's an intriguing concept.
3) "The untutored Wizards of the Old World practise strange Lores of Magic of their own devising, manipulating the Winds of Magic and crafting spells that suit their purpose." - inevitable given the era; Empire wizards likely won't be using the 8 main lores.
4) "To reflect this, spellcasting has been liberated and spread throughout the different phases of the game, rather than restricted to just one."
5) "Situations where a single spell can decide the outcome of a battle are rare. The focus has shifted from keeping track of dice pools or hands of cards onto the positioning of Wizards. This means players will have to plan ahead, moving their Wizards as carefully as any other unit, both to ensure they can bring their magic to the right place at the right time, and to ensure they can counter the spells of enemy Wizards." - suggests a Wizard requires proximity to either the enemy caster or to their target to dispel.
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Post by sonofkurnos on Jul 24, 2023 15:53:04 GMT
I'll be honest, I was really hoping for "Warhammer fantasy with some refinements"... However, just on this it's sounding a bit like an entirely different game 😒
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Post by thegoat on Jul 24, 2023 15:56:04 GMT
Removing the magic phase is a big change. Traditionally the magic phase has been a whole game inside another game. I liked this change when they did it in 40K. But I'll reserve judgement for how well it works in WH:TOW.
All the other rule hints are too broad and generic to really comment on. I'm still wondering "where is the beef" with these updates.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jul 24, 2023 16:57:53 GMT
I think this sounds intriguing...especially the blocks being pushed back and forth depending on combat results.
In the pictures imo units of Swordmasters, miners and thunderers which rank up well on 20mm bases look a bit odd spaced out on 25mms.
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Post by Naitsabes on Jul 24, 2023 20:21:12 GMT
Worth noting that the pictures show models on the new base sizes - i.e. they're new photos. So we can assume 1) those models will be available again (great!) but also 2) those models aren't due to be replaced any time soon with new kits (not so great). Depends on definition of 'anytime soon'. GW has a history of showing models in the main rulebook and then replacing those models some months later when an army book came out. Of course if there aren't any army books and since this isn't a mainline game anymore, who knows how much they will release. I spotted with my eagle-y eyes the old Empire knights in one of the pictures and surely they wouldn't sell those and their tired 1992 ponies for much longer. Right? Please? PLEASE?!?
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Post by sedge on Jul 24, 2023 21:03:33 GMT
Yeah, seeing all the old core units was quite disheartening - Dwarf Warriors/Thunderers, High Elf Archers, common Goblins. Those are all long overdue a replacement. The regular Orcs hold up a bit better, and the much-maligned Empire State Troopers are just about tolerable. Those old Slayers... they can't still sell them? And the boars pulling that Chariot?
I didn't see High Elf Spearmen, and have therefore decided they must have a replacement kit made. Or they're canned and we just have Lothern Sea Guard.
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by simon on Jul 24, 2023 21:04:26 GMT
What size bases are the orcs on? I don't have those models so can't tell from the pic.
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 152
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Post by simon on Jul 24, 2023 21:17:33 GMT
Yeah, seeing all the old core units was quite disheartening - Dwarf Warriors/Thunderers, High Elf Archers, common Goblins. Those are all long overdue a replacement. The regular Orcs hold up a bit better, and the much-maligned Empire State Troopers are just about tolerable. Those old Slayers... they can't still sell them? And the boars pulling that Chariot? I didn't see High Elf Spearmen, and have therefore decided they must have a replacement kit made. Or they're canned and we just have Lothern Sea Guard. Yes it will be hilarious if they start selling those slayers again! That said they are timeless models in my opinion. Still it's nice to see armies other than Brets and TKs displayed. Models wise I guess the rest of us will have to wait..
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Post by thegoat on Jul 24, 2023 22:02:21 GMT
Yeah, seeing all the old core units was quite disheartening - Dwarf Warriors/Thunderers, High Elf Archers, common Goblins. Those are all long overdue a replacement. The regular Orcs hold up a bit better, and the much-maligned Empire State Troopers are just about tolerable. Those old Slayers... they can't still sell them? And the boars pulling that Chariot? I didn't see High Elf Spearmen, and have therefore decided they must have a replacement kit made. Or they're canned and we just have Lothern Sea Guard. Yes it will be hilarious if they start selling those slayers again! That said they are timeless models in my opinion. Still it's nice to see armies other than Brets and TKs displayed. Models wise I guess the rest of us will have to wait.. Not sure why seeing "old" models is bad. I greatly prefer old models -- metals from 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th editions are the best. Out of everything pictured in today's update those classic metal Dwarf Slayers are probably my favorate. Serious question: Why do so many gamers always want "old" models replaced? Bad models should be replaced, for sure. But when it comes to Warhammer models, old does not automatically mean bad.
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