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Post by baaderthegreat on Dec 26, 2021 13:19:35 GMT
Okay, let's start with the simple one...
You have a Black Orc Warboss that you put on a Wyvern. That makes the whole unit immune to psychology. Why? Because the Black Orc Warboss has the immune to psychology rule. And if the rider or the mount has it, the whole unit has it (or, to be more precise, is treated as such). For the same reason, a Night Goblin boss on a Great Cave Squig is immune to psychology (here, the mount has it).
It would be a different thing if you put your Black Orc Warboss (without a Wyvern, of coure) into a unit of normal Orcs. The majority of the models has to have the immune to psychology rule in order to pass panic tests, fear tests etc. automatically. This wouldn't be the case here.
And now to my question...
What if you put your Black Orc Warboss on a chariot - where he replaces one of the Orc crew members; so you would have the Black Orc Warboss and 1 or 2 Orcs in the chariot - you can still buy an additional crew member.
Is the whole unit treated as if it's immune to psychology?
You could say...
a) No, because only 1 model has the rule (the Black Orc Boss), while 1-2 Orc crew members, the 2 boars and the chariot itself don't have it. So the majority of the models doesn't have immune to psychology.
b) Yes. This is a unit with 2 components: The Black Orc Boss as the rider, and the chariot (which includes the crew and the boars) as the mount. And as we know, if the rider or the mount has immune to psychology, the whole unit is subject to that rule.
Personally, I'd say b) is right.
Thoughts?
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 26, 2021 14:14:38 GMT
So, da big green dude on chariot is immune to psychology (the same with whole model/unit with all other dudes (crew) and hogs. Waaagh,oink-oink!)
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Post by baaderthegreat on Dec 26, 2021 14:19:44 GMT
Yes, that is the rule I was quoting indirectly.
And that's how I see it too.
I was just thinking that someone COULD argue that there are more models involved without the immune to the psychology rule... Orc crew, boars, the chariot itself... so that the unit as a whole shouldn't have it.
But I also see it that way that there ist just a rider (the Black Orc character) and a mount (chariot, crew, boars).
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Dec 26, 2021 14:32:31 GMT
Well then, I don't know (I've always hated this GW'troubles with "model..."/"model part"/"unit part" ) Consider chariot and rider(char) as a whole model. Ignore crew and boars for this situation (that's how we've played). Chariot is a single model/unit after all.
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Post by baaderthegreat on Dec 26, 2021 14:38:11 GMT
If I remember correctly, in case of Grom it is stated explicitly (in the rules of the FAQ?) that Niblet as the BSB is considered part of the chariot - so I'd say if a character is on a chariot, other crew members are considered part of the mount.
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Post by KevinC on Dec 26, 2021 14:56:06 GMT
I'd say the whole chariot is immune to psychology. The character is the rider and the chariot with all its bits is the mount.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Dec 26, 2021 15:06:18 GMT
The part of the ItP special rule that states "If the majority of the models in a unit have the Immune to Psychology rule..." does not come into play, because "In a similar manner to cavalry, a chariot has more than one set of characteristics, one for the beasts, one for the crew and one for the chariot itself, and is treated as a single model" (BRB p. 86, Italics mine). So, it does not matter how many crew members there are, it remains a single model.
In addition, a character on a chariot follows the rules for "ridden monsters," in which the character is the rider and the chariot (crew included) the mount. As such, "special rules that apply to a ridden monster do not normally also apply to character riding it and vice versa (with the same exceptions that apply to cavalry models, which are listed on page 82)" (Italics mine).
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Post by baaderthegreat on Dec 26, 2021 15:52:26 GMT
So we all agree on this.
Thank you all for your replies.
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