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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:03:09 GMT
Realising that we had lots of individual lizardmen tactica articles copied from the Lustria forum but lacking an overarching Lizardmen army book review, I thought I'd give this the normal Knoffles treatment. This thread will be a compilation of several guides created by/from the below players/sources. Most views expressed are theirs and I have attempted to blend them into a coherent document and amended, added to and in some cases, re-written them where I thought pertinent. After the first post, I won't attribute sections to individual creators. As ever, if you note any mistakes, please let me know. The below list has links to the individual posts in the thread. Post 1 - Recognition of contributors, list of posts, introduction to Lizardmen and note on the lack of Errata/FAQ. Post 2 - Army Special RulesPost 3 - LordsPost 4 - HeroesPost 5 - Dedicated MountsPost 6 - CorePost 7 - SpecialPost 8 – RarePost 9 - Army Book Magic itemsPost 10 - BRB Magic itemsPost 11 - Slann Disciplines Post 12 - Magic loresPost 13 - Soul of Stone Math-hammerRecognition
As with other guides here, this contents of this have been taken from multiple sources. The base document was taken from: Learn2Eel’s excellent guide. The first installment can be found here: imperatorguides.blogspot.com/2014/10/lizardmen-unit-overview-lords-and-army.htmlOther sources included: 1D4Chan: Warhammer/Tactics/8th Edition/Lizardmen - 1d4chanVarious guides at Lustria (some that have also been copied to this forum): Index - 8th Edition LM Tactica Index | Lustria Online (lustria-online.com)Why Play Lizardmen
Do you like Dinosaurs and great looking models? Do you like the opportunity to paint bright colourful units mixing reptilian and Aztec themes? Do you like to lie on a rock waiting for the sun to warm your cold-blooded body? Congratulations, you’ve found the army for you! Lizardmen Core is limited in range but not bad. Saurus are tough and hard-hitting, Skinks fill many roles, acting as charge redirectors, harassing, shooting, scouting. Their elite infantry, Temple Guard, are complete murder in large packs and will roll over any infantry except the strongest units of Chaos Warriors. They have diverse and extremely powerful monsters, one of the best spellcasters in the entire game and Saurus characters are perfectly designed to destroy enemy Lords and Heroes in a quick, confusing and bloody fight, all the while riding a T-Rex or a raptor. Lizardmen Overall:
1. Lizardmen can do most things but long-range shooting well. We have a solid magic presence, great monsters and several fast-moving units and/or flyers to (hopefully) take out whatever cannons our opponents bring. If we want to, we can also build a shooty list with a limited range, but great movement. 2. Lizardmen is an infantry centric army – we are reliant on clouds of skinks or units of Saurus warriors almost regardless of what list we play. There’s a very limited selection in core, and none of the choices are enough of a powerhouse, to receive much more than the minimum dedication of points in a competetive list. 3. Lizardmen can go with both a defensive and an offensive strategy. However, due to the lack of long ranged shooting, besides our solid magic presence, we’ll usually be forced to be the aggressor to support our fast-moving artillery killers, flyers and monsters. Lizardmen Errata/FAQ
It’s worth noting that Games Workshop never released an errata/FAQ for the Lizardmen book. As such this is a book littered with some of the most argued about rules interpretations of any army in the game. I’ve tried to point all of these out as I come to them, both noting what are the actual Rules as Written (RAW), as well as what I believe is the intent (RAI). The intent is often, purely my opinion on the subject - Knoffles.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:07:42 GMT
Post 2 - Army special rules
Most Lizardmen units benefit from one or more of the following special rules:
Cold-Blooded
While not every model in the Lizardmen army has the Predatory Fighter special rule, the Cold-Blooded special rule is endemic throughout the army and is perhaps its signature trait when compared to other armies. The theme behind Saurus infantry is that they don't hit particularly hard but they are tough enough and have good Leadership to hold back enemy combat units for a decent length of time, and Cold-Blooded is certainly the biggest proponent for such tactics. Usually, all tests rolled against a unit or models' Leadership value are resolved by rolling 2D6 and comparing the result against the value of the model after any applicable modifiers are taken into account, with a failed roll exceeding the value and a successful roll scoring below the value, respectively. The Cold-Blooded special rule ensures that the generally average to good Leadership of Lizardmen isn't much of an issue - especially if you have a Leadership 10 General - by instead having your units roll 3D6 as opposed to 2D6, choosing the lowest two dice scores of the three total rolled. Considering your main combat infantry in Saurus Warriors are natively Leadership 8 and traditionally rely on their deep ranks, Toughness 4 and 4+ armour saves to hold opponents up, any unit with all three of Cold-Blooded, Steadfast (or natural Stubborn) and at least Leadership 8 will almost never fail a Leadership test.
For an army that is ridiculously dominant in terms of chaff and the movement phase while fielding some incredibly powerful monsters and combat units as well, this is an awesome special rule that helps to make up for the low Leadership of most Skink and monstrous units in the army while securing Saurus' place as anvils rather than outright damage dealers. For the ultimate anvil, combine a Slaan Mage Priest Battle Standard Bearer with the Standard of Discipline and a sizable unit of Temple Guard and just watch as opponents are rendered helpless against your permanently Stubborn block that rolls 3D6 for all Leadership-based tests, choosing the two lowest scores each time, and re-rolls all failed Leadership tests on the Slaan's Leadership 10. Alternatively, you could always use Lord Kroak with a block of Temple Guard for an Unbreakable formation of Strength 5 and Toughness 4 Saurus, but then you miss out on all those lovely rulebook and High Magic augments! This special rule is so darned useful that even Empire Generals and Captains have an exact mimic of it and are often used specifically to provide it for their own highly important regiments!
This rule also allows you to have units operate outside of the General or BSB’s bubbles but with only an average leadership across the board, it does come with some risks.
Predatory Fighter
While Cold-Blooded has been a staple of Lizardmen army books for several editions running now, Predatory Fighter is an entirely new addition to the make-up of Saurus units exclusively and thus it isn't really an army-wide special rule so much as it is either a nice little boost or disadvantage to have depending on your perspective. Seeing as Saurus have traditionally been used almost exclusively as anvils given that they are relatively cheap Toughness 4, 4+ armoured models that can hold ground with their good Leadership 8 and the Cold-Blooded special rule, one could see the introduction of Predatory Fighter as an attempt by the rules designers to invigorate more offense-oriented builds for Saurus regiments. The results are, at best, mixed. The main benefit of Predatory Fighter is that Saurus units that roll a 6 to hit in close combat with their attacks immediately generate an additional attack that must roll to hit as normal, though much like the Red Fury Vampiric Power these additional attacks cannot themselves generate extra attacks. This has natural synergy with the Harmonic Convergence spell from the Lore of Heavens which is ironically employed by many Skink Priests and in my experience it serves as more of a nice little boost for your units, than anything else.
Given the poor Weapon Skill and Initiative values of almost all Saurus outside of characters, this usually serves to generate a handful or fewer extra hits that tend not to make too much of a difference to a combat result anyway. What is really nice is that characters get the full benefit of this special rule and thus giving Magic Weapons that confer extra attacks to an Old Blood or Scar Veteran isn't a bad idea for potentially generating even more Strength 5 or greater attacks. Before I move on to the downside of the special rule, however, I must first address one of the more glaring rule debates surrounding Predatory Fighter - do supporting attacks made by models with this special rule still generate extra attacks when rolling a 6 to hit? Per the rules as written, the answer is a clear and and solid "no"; models that make supporting attacks can only make one attack for any reason unless they are Monstrous Infantry or have a rule that specifically overrides the restriction.
This means that you need to roll the front ranks' attacks separately to the supporting attacks which can be somewhat irritating but ultimately it only adds a few minutes, if that, to the total length of a game. Still, the fact that this rule is somewhat limiting in that way and doesn't really do much for anything except characters, ensures that the secondary effect of Predatory Fighter is even more disconcerting than it really should be. To cover all bases, the argument for PR being allowed for supporting attacks, is that the Army Book rules trump the Basic Rules. However the counter is that nothing in the army book rule, directly counters that the supporting attack restriction is overwritten.
To put in context how mediocre predatory fighter statistically is, if you follow Rules as Written (RAW). You more often than not, find Saurus warriors in a bus formation of 5 or 6 wide. With 2 attacks each, the odds are you will score 2 extra attacks from PF. With WS 3, these normally hit on a 4+ and with a Str of 4, you will generally either wound on a 3 or 4+. So the odds of PF actually causing any extra damage, even before any saving throws are made, is very low. Now of course, you’ll get those times where you’ll buck the odds and roll hot with multiple 6’s to hit but really the odds are not in your favour. This, combined with the awkwardness of rolling separate attack dice, is one of the reasons that at the time of writing (Oct 2022), the UK tournament scene widely accepts that PR can also trigger from supporting attacks. It also makes spears a now worthwhile consideration.
Being unable to restrain pursuit unless a Skink character is within 6" definitely outweighs the positives of Predatory Fighter, if you are playing against a skilled opponent that knows exactly how to control the movement of and dominate frenzied opponents. With the possible exception of Kroxigor, Saurus units will rarely achieve victory in close combat, by outright annihilating their quarry and thus the chances of pursuit are very high in any combat you gain the upper hand in. Failing to restrain pursuit is usually bad when your opponent knows exactly how to bait your units and win the positional game by getting pivotal flank and rear charges on exposed units, thus the need for Skink characters is even greater than in the previous army book. Still, I don't think this should be seen as too big of a deterrent to using Saurus units - if there is one thing Lizardmen excel at it is winning the movement phase with masses of Skinks, flying Monstrous Cavalry and a wealth of Vanguards or Skirmishers. Heck, Skink characters themselves are crazily inexpensive anyway and a good list will often feature at least two Priests, one with a Dispel Scroll and another with the Cube of Darkness, for some excellent magic defence.
Aquatic
While certainly a far more useful special rule for the units in question than Predatory Fighter is for Saurus, to say that Aquatic is the most situational of the three army-wide special rules is probably an under-statement. Native to Skinks, Kroxigor and various units such as Jungle Swarms and Salamanders, units that are Aquatic in nature not only ignore all dangerous terrain tests forced by rivers or marshlands but can also claim rank bonuses, employ the Steadfast special rule by having more ranks than their opponents in a combat and even march as normal while moving. This is equivalent to the affinity Wood Elves have with forest terrain even if the buffs here aren't quite as significant as for the tree-lovers, though one could argue that as most Skink units are already Skirmishers adding an additional -1 to hit penalty for opponents shooting at them while they are moving through water-based terrain is a pretty hefty advantage. If you actually play on a board that uses marshlands or rivers then the applicable units - even Troglodons, surprisingly - get some very nifty little bonuses that you usually wouldn't plan on, though otherwise this is definitely a forgettable special rule. What is rather notable here is that the Saurus-exclusive Predatory Fighter and Skink-native Aquatic special rules are both represented on Kroxigor, giving their rules some nice nods to their background as seemingly over-grown Saurus that share a strange affinity with their far smaller Skink brethren.
Jungle Poisons
Simply put, poison for skinks. Point your skinks at the right enemy target, or your chameleon skinks in that regard and watch the poison take effect. Having only an armour (and/or ward) save to avoid taking a wound, many monsters, warmachines or other softly armoured targets will be wounded when hit. Poison is at its most usefulness against low AS, high toughness units.
Scaly Skin
Scaly skin is an armor save on top of, or instead of, a normal armor save. This can be huge when considering our lords and heroes come bearing a 5+ or 4+ scaly skin, with options for Light armour and Shields. With only one model missing out (the Slann!) this is a great special rule. It should be noted that Lizardmen otherwise, don't have access to heavy armor or the special kinds of armor some other races possess, which means Lizardmen are not the most armored Warhammer army.
Arcane Vassal
Very valuable for Slann and Skink Priest pairings. Skink Priests have just the right combination of mobility and expendability to make them great for aiming Slann spells, especially short ranged spells. Somewhat less valuable on the Troglodon, but the size gives it a good vantage point and you can one-two punch enemies with a spell followed by some acid spit and unlike a Skink Priest, it can survive a fight (well some fights).
Telepathic Confabulation
With the End Times expanded Lord allowance, you do need a large points sized game to have two Slann in one army. To make this power more than a novelty, you generally need one Slann in the center of your army to transfer radius spells to and a more a distance Slann to transfer your long range spells too. You can also transfer your miscast prone high value spells to a lone Slann away from a bunkered Slann. Be wary of giving one Slann all of your best spells, since you lose everything if he dies.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:08:30 GMT
Post 3 - LordsSlaan Mage-Priest – 300pts
One of the most powerful generic wizards in the game when fully kitted out. These are all Level 4 Wizards and frankly that is always a good thing, seeing as you require that for magic defence as well as the bonus to casting. The Slann is very defensible, coming stock with a 4+ ward save, which is more often than not the first item purchased for other armies' Level 4 Wizard choices and has a total of five wounds at Toughness 4, or to put it another way, two more wounds than most other Level 4 Wizards. When you consider that most Level 4 Wizards with a Talisman of Preservation are just under 250 points each, that a Slaan pays an additional 50 or so points for those extra wounds, ignores dangerous terrain, can cast damage spells through supporting Skink Priests and has unique defensive benefits when joined to Temple Guard (for instance, he goes in the 2nd rank so can’t be targeted in combat and auto passes look out sir rolls), makes it a pretty well priced unit at the 300pt price tag. You could argue that what you really want from a spell caster is just a high Wizard Level and the ability to hide out of harm's way at all times, so paying exponentially more points to increase their survivability can often be unnecessary. This logic weighs heavily on a Slaan's shoulders and argueably makes them inefficient compared to other Level 4 Wizard options from army books such as the Empire or Dark Elves. When you can hide in a Warlock bus or out of sight as a solo model, why bother spending so many points on defensive upgrades? One also needs to remember that the best way to defend a Slaan - joining them to Temple Guard - leaves their protectors notoriously vulnerable to miscast damage, with any of the Strength 10 hit results causing crazy amounts of damage to an expensive Temple Guard unit. Basically, the army book encourages you to spend a lot of points not only on the Slaan itself but also on their bodyguards in the form of Temple Guard, usually in sizes of twenty six or more models. While some might say it stops you from wanting to spent points on an "unnecessary" combat Lord (and besides, the End Times rules supersede this) it doesn't save you points for important units like Salamanders, Stegadons and Terradons. A Slaan can (and more often than not) will even be your army battle standard bearer. This does mean you add an additional 200 bonus victory points, on top of the actual cost of a Slaan, once your opponent slays it. Whether rightfully or wrongfully, Slaan are actually your best bet as a battle standard bearer seeing as they can still be your General even with the upgrade; give them the Standard of Discipline and you will have a Leadership 10 General that allows every friendly unit inside its Inspiring Presence range to benefit from the Hold Your Ground and Cold-Blooded special rules equally. And they are easily your most survivable Battle Standard Bearer option to boot. As with all BSB’s, if he and his unit flee from combat, you will automatically remove him from combat but being inevitably stubborn LD10 and rr-rolling with 3D6, makes this highly unlikely. As for what other upgrades you should look at using, perhaps the most common build is to take a channeling staff (in addition to the Standard of Discipline) as your sole magic item, then use the Becalming Cogitation, Harmonic Convergence and Focus of Mystery Disciplines. This will give you a Slaan that will on average channel one extra power or dispel dice per magic phase, re-roll a single failed dispel attempt in each opposing magic phase and have the Loremaster (High Magic) special rule. Not only is this Slaan awesome for magic defence and maximising your magic dice, but it also is arguably the most versatile build as the Lore of High Magic is wonderfully diverse with every spell having some great uses at one point in a game or another. The lore attribute of the Lore of High Magic is what seals the deal here, allowing you to swap out a spell you have just used, for a randomly determined spell from one of the eight spell lores of your choice - you can use the High Magic spells for as long as they are useful to you, then swap them out for spells that better suit the current situation! Another amusing combination is to take the Arabyan Carpet, the Lore of Death and the Higher State of Consciousness Discipline - this particular Slaan flies around and delivers the incredibly damaging Lore of Death spells to opponents at a close range, while relying on the ethereal special rule to survive. The theme behind a Slaan is that while they are good value in a sense, you generally want to avoid keeping them stock as their unique combination of a high Leadership General, Level 4 Wizard and Battle Standard Bearer on an incredibly well protected platform (assuming you use Temple Guard) is priced adequately once you upgrade them to their maximum potential. The points invested in to a Slaan will thus almost always be titanic, but to say they aren't good choices would be an outright lie; they may be risky to use if you have bad luck with miscasts, but otherwise they are fantastic Lords that mostly live up to their stature as the greatest of all wizards in Warhammer Fantasy. For Slann Disciplines see POST - 11For Spell lores, see POST - 12Link to Common Slann BuildsSaurus Oldblood – 140pts
The Saurus Oldblood is possibly the most efficient combat character in the game when taken at face value. Three wounds at Toughness 5 with a basic 4+ armour save that combines fully with actual sets of armour makes the Oldblood by far the easiest combat Lord in the game to protect. Five Strength 5 attacks with Weapon Skill 6 at Initiative 3 are suitably hard-hitting and nothing to be sniffed at. Their damage output is made even more impressive by the Predatory Fighter special rule, conferring the Oldblood extra attacks for any roll of a 6 he makes when rolling to hit in close combat. While this particular special rule isn't really helpful for ranked-up Saurus with only two Strength 4 attacks each for the most part, giving it to a Lord choice with five attacks that can get up to a ridiculous Strength 8 and still have good defensive stats is just insane and at the same cost as a High Elf Prince. While a High Elf Prince does have Always Strikes First and slightly better Weapon Skill to boot over an Oldblood, a Prince cannot match an Oldblood's base Strength, Toughness, Attacks or armour save - that they are priced identically sheds an unfavourable light on the Prince. An Oldblood can get to a 2+ armour save on foot just through mundane (i.e. non-magical) equipment, a feat matched only by Dark Elves; a 1+ armour save is ridiculously easy to obtain as soon as you take a mount, while lacking a stock suit of armour but having Scaly Skin means an Oldblood is a perfect recipient for the Armour of Destiny. On that note, how does a 1+ armoured Oldblood on foot with a 4+ ward save and five Strength 7 attacks sound? It seems like it would be expensive but it really isn't, rounding out at just under 240 points - need I mention that the chances of getting at least one extra attack through Predatory Fighter each round are extremely high, effectively leaving the Oldblood with six base attacks? With the possible exception of Crom the Conqueror, you will be hard pressed to find a combat Lord that can match an Oldblood at that point’s level for sheer survivability and damage output. Oh, and if you want a giant lizard riding an even more titanic dinosaur, the Carnosaur may very well be the perfect fit for you - just be prepared to lose said pairing in almost every game you play. While many different builds exist for this savage combo, I generally prefer prioritizing defence on the Oldblood seeing as a Carnosaur will brutalize almost anything it touches. For the uninitiated this means giving your Oldblood the Armour of Destiny, the Dawnstone and whatever else strikes your fancy such as a cheap Magic Weapon; the Carnosaur might be fragile, but the Oldblood will be a living tank with a 1+ re-rollable armour save and a 4+ ward save. From there, give the Carnosaur the Loping Stride and Bloodroar upgrades and watch as your expensive but devastating Lord either makes it into combat very quickly whereby it will tear almost anything apart, or laugh as your opponents units flee from the terrifying maw of the monstrous Carnosaur. No matter how you kit out an Oldblood, no other generic character option in any army books' Lord slot I can think of comes anywhere close to the sheer efficiency of an Oldblood. About the only real issue with this character is that it makes a poor General - aside from being very survivable - as it has a mere Leadership 8. WS 6 is also a bit of a letdown so items such as fencer’s blades or sword of striking can really boost his output. He is cheap enough that you can fit one in alongside a Slann regardless of whether you use the increased character allowance from the End Times rules. Some example Old-Blood builds can be found here: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1444/cowboy-builds-statisticsLord Kroak - 400pts
If you actually want to honour the Slaan by fielding one of the greatest of their kind ever to live and perhaps the most powerful of all, Lord Kroak should always be your choice over the insipid Lord Mazdamundi. While Itza's Deliver has long since passed into the spirit world, what remains of the First Slaan is still more than enough to cause havoc on the battlefield. While Mazdamundi tries to combine limited combat potential with heavy spell-casting, Kroak should never be directly involved in a combat - remember that a Slaan joined to a Temple Guard unit hides in the second rank - and can at best be used as a tarpit against a mediocre fighter in a challenge. With a single Weapon Skill 1 attack resolved at Initative 1 and Strength 3 with no additional effects to speak of, Kroak is just as capable in combat as a pathetic Zombie - but of course, that isn't why you field the long-dead toad. The reason you can tarpit characters with Kroak is that his defensive stats are actually ridiculous with five Toughness 6 wounds and a whopping 3+ ward save, meaning that any attack lacking the Killing Blow or Multiple Wound special rules may as well be rendered useless against Kroak. That he can just hide behind the rest of the Temple Guard and never have to worry about challenges he doesn't want to be involved in means you can freely deduce which characters Kroak can hold up and send him against them so that they generate little to no combat resolution, while avoiding the ones that can actually hurt Itza's saviour. Otherwise, Kroak does have two glaring vulnerabilities that opponents will be quick to exploit. Not only does he have a pathetic Initiative 1, but he is also flammable. Both of these will rarely come into play given Kroak's position in a Temple Guard unit and because Slann automatically pass any look-out-sir rolls, so spells like Purple Sun of Xereus or Pit of Shades won't be able to hit him. Where Kroak really starts to become interesting is once you consider all of his many support abilities and equipment, most notably the fact that any Temple Guard unit he joins become Unbreakable. Let me rephrase that in case you didn't catch it the first time; if Lord Kroak joins a unit of Toughness 4, 4+ armoured Temple Guard, they will never run away from anything, ever. Not only will your opponents hate you for this once you start using supporting wizards to cast Wyssan's Wildform on the Temple Guard, but they will almost assuredly start tearing their hair out once they realize all shooting and close combat attacks made against Kroak and his unit are at -1 to hit. Unless your opponent has access to a "characteristics-test-or-die" spell or lots of attacks that do not roll to hit - ranging from Terrorgheist Death Shrieks and thunderstomps to cannonballs and stone throwers - Kroak's Temple Guard unit will be almost impossible to truly destroy on the battlefield, especially when taken in sizable numbers. While a traditional Slaan can cause lots of damage to his own unit via miscasts, Kroak has an in-built defence against this by effectively ignoring each miscast he suffers on a 2+ to instead treat it as an easily manageable Magical Feedback result exclusive to Kroak. Losing D6 power dice for a Level 4 Wizard that casts his single spell on a 10+ isn't much of an issue, nor is a single Strength 6 hit on a model with six wounds, Toughness 5 and a 3+ ward save. Basically, Kroak makes a block of Temple Guard almost impossible to stop through non-magical means, even if their decent damage output won't actually win combats anyway. You can forget trying to steal Kroak's sole spell or reducing his Wizard Levels either (I am looking at you Malekith) as he can never lose his unique spell nor be reduced below Wizard Level 1 - if you want to stop the vengeance of Lord Kroak, you need to actually put the Slaan down once and for all. On a situational basis, Lord Kroak also causes Fear and thus so too do any Temple Guard in base contact with him, though this is admittedly very limited. Of course, what would a Slaan be without their magic and this is true of Kroak even if he is but a mere dust-mite compared to his former power since his sacrifice aeons ago. Being a Level 4 Wizard only really applies to dispel and casting attempts seeing as Kroak only knows one spell, so essentially he is very much a basic Slaan with far less spell lores to choose from. His one spell is aptly named the Deliverance of Itza, it is a direct damage spell that is cast on a 10+ and can never be stolen by an enemy wizard. There are three versions of this spell; the first targets all enemy units within 12" and is cast on a 10+, the second targets all enemy units within 18" and is cast on an 18+, and the third targets all enemy units within 24" and is cast on a 24+. This spell is the next on the list for ‘needing an FAQ’. The spell is direct damage (so can only target units in the front arc) but states it hits all enemy units within xx”. So RAW, it can only hit all enemy units within xx” in his forward arc! It is often argued that hits all enemy units with xx” means that the spell is now a radius/bubble effect. Given that this is how it worked in previous editions, I suspect that this was indeed the intention, else the spell becomes extrememly lacklustre, especially at the lower power/range. Regardless of which version of the spell you use, all affected units suffer 2D6 Strength 4 hits, while Daemonic and Undead units instead suffer 3D6 Strength 4 hits. Despite (if using RAW) the spell being pretty mediocre, you’ll notice that Lord Kroak can cast this spell as many times as you want in the one Magic phase provided you have the power dice to spare - just be aware that this does not override the "losing focus" rules and thus failing to cast it will still prevent Kroak from casting it again in the same phase. Considering that Kroak will statistically cast the 10+ version on two power dice and cast the 18+ version on four power dice, your opponent will really start feeling the heat once his Temple Guard unit closes the gap (or if cast through a compulsory flying skink mage). It will clear out chaff and severely weaken infantry blocks with ease if your opponent fails to stem the tide of spells early on, though the fact that it cannot affect enemy units in combat means that a force dependent on getting into combat can just rush in and be perfectly safe from the expensive Level 4 Wizard. In that sense, the Deliverance of Itza is more amusing than it is useful, especially as Lizardmen really don't need help clearing out chaff which is what the spell really is best at. Of course, this is all before you remember that Kroak can still cast the Deliverance of Itza through a Skink Priest or Skink Oracle on a Troglodon - while you likely won't use the latter, having the former fly around with the Cloak of Feathers can actually lead to some brutal early game damage against opponents lacking good magic defence, though this is obviously situational. Still, making an entire unit of Temple Guard Unbreakable and making them harder to hit in combat and shooting is pretty darn good value for only 100 points more than a stock Slaan, especially given how survivable Kroak is for the most part. I just find it rather unfortunate that such an expensive Wizard is relegated to casting a single somewhat limiting damage spell and is neither Leadership 10 nor a Battle Standard Bearer like a regular Slaan will often be, and for these reasons and more I think Kroak is more of a themed choice than anything else. If nothing else, Kroak will obliterate chaff-heavy builds like "Skink Clouds" or massed Dark Riders and Doomfire Warlocks in record time if they don't play very smartly, while he is certainly far more valuable than Mazdamundi. Seeing as Lord Kroak is well and truly dead and the husk that joins the battlefield shares a mere fragment of the First Slaan's ancient power, one can only imagine what a fully restored Lord Kroak would be capable of in-game! Incidentally with The End Times Kroak can now take the Lore of Undeath, since it says that ALL wizards can generate spells from it (and with him being dead himself you can certainly argue he's more in tune with Death Magic than most Necromancers), so now he has a proper lore again! Lord Mazdamundi – 780pts
As the most expensive special character in any Games Workshop army book (if you discount the Undead Legion and before any upgrades or optional mounts are taken into account) it would be fair to assume that Lord Mazdamundi is one of the most powerful characters in Warhammer Fantasy. While this is certainly true of the greatest living Slaan in the background, the actual in-game performance is another matter entirely. First of all, if you are going to spend that many points on a Lord choice that will almost assuredly also be your General, the bare minimum you would expect is that it provides you with a Leadership 10 Inspiring Presence - Mazdamundi is Leadership 9 only, though I guess he does at least have an 18" Inspiring Presence. Secondly, said character must also have some very impressive defensive stats to justify such a ridiculously high cost - especially if, like in Mazdamundi's case, they are also the Battle Standard Bearer but I would be lying if I said Mazdamundi was particularly difficult to kill. 780 points worth of Slaan Mage Priest and Ancient Stegadon has never looked so fragile, especially as opponents can field three cannons for less than half of the total cost of Mazdamundi himself. As soon as any respectable player notices that the Lizardmen General, primary spell-caster and Battle Standard Bearer are combined on a single model on a monster mount - and with the way cannon-balls work, monster mounts are quite sub-par in 8th Edition for the most part - they will focus all of their regular shooting, magic and war machines on to that model and kill it in record time. For a model that is incapable of claiming Look Out Sir rolls, you had better expect it can survive more than two or three cannonball hits assuming average rolls and in that sense Mazdamundi fails completely. Yes, five wounds at Toughness 4 with a 4+ ward save is certainly impressive, especially with the five wound Toughness 6 Ancient Stegadon as a buffer, but war machines will simply tear this particular pairing apart almost contemptuously in record time. Your classic two Great Cannons and two Steam Tanks in an Empire list will statistically flatten both Mazdamundi and his Stegadon in one round of shooting, assuming at least one miss and one or two passed ward saves - regardless of whether Mazdamundi survives because of the ward save, the Stegadon Zlaaq is virtually guaranteed to die. From there, Mazdamundi will be perilously open to attack from roving Demigryph Knight units and other Ballistic Skill based shooting attacks from Helblaster Volley Guns, Archers and so on. The sad truth here is that those pair of Great Cannons and two Steam Tanks are still less expensive than Mazdamundi and can accomplish far more in three shooting phases than just killing the revered Slaan and his precious mount. The equation becomes even more unbalanced if Dwarfs or Dark Elves enter the fray, with the former able to bring upwards of seven runed war machines for an equivalent cost to Mazdamundi and easily annihilating him in one round (though I appreciate that you wouldn’t normally have that many warmachines but if you are playing a game where you could field this Slann, you may well have that many!), while the latter can use the cheesy Cauldron gun-line build in conjunction with six-dicing Doombolt on Warlocks to splatter the pair in a matter of minutes, not turns. And heck, unless you bring a second Slaan - but really, why would you waste so many points on just spell-casters when you have no reliable power dice generation like Tomb Kings? You will not only lose your probably General and guaranteed Battle Standard Bearer when Mazdamundi is eventually slain, but also your primary spell-caster. Any opponent that ignores Mazdamundi in favour of other targets is either just letting you enjoy the sight of a nicely converted model on the table-top or actively shooting themselves in the foot by not exploiting so many standard and bonus victory points in one ridiculously vulnerable model. Oh, and watch out for the Pit of Shades or Purple Sun of Xereus - both will outright slay both Mazdamundi and Zlaaq at least two thirds of the time they are cast. If you somehow manage to get over the fact that this model is ridiculously easy to kill when its raw cost is accounted for and suffers the Gorbad Ironclaw syndrome of combining two many roles into one model, there isn't much to look forward to in terms of actual damage output. The Ancient Stegadon lacks any of the ranged weapons or upgrades a usual specimen of its type would have, meaning it relies purely on Impact Hits and Thunderstomps to do damage - and the former is neutered compared to a regular variants' Impact Hits given that it lacks the upgrades. Mazdamundi himself is pitiful in close combat with Weapon Skill 2, Initiative 2 and a single attack. That his magic weapon has Always Strikes First means little as it will almost never benefit from the re-roll to hit, relying on its Poisoned status to inflict a wound. The whole reason Mazdamundi even has this Mace is for the purpose of destroying a models' magic items entirely on a D6 roll of a 6 provided Mazdamundi actually hits them, but given his terrible stats and single attack with the effect only working on a 6, this is a pathetic ability and one that will almost never actually function. The only thing that is left afterwards is Mazdamundi's magic capabilities, and even these aren't quite as impressive as you would expect both of a model this expensive and one that is the oldest living Slaan hailing from the Second Generation - still, at the very least Mazdamundi does perform well in this regard. He is a Level 4 Wizard that can choose either High Magic or one of the eight rulebook spell lores just like a regular Slaan, though this comes with a twist as Mazdamundi is a Loremaster of whatever spell lore he chooses to use. I won't beat around the bush here; this is a fantastic ability to have and makes him easily the most versatile spell-caster in the army book, though the fact that you have to choose which lore to use in the army list creation phase does make him a lot less versatile than someone like Nagash or Teclis. That Mazdamundi is a wizard level below both of those aforementioned power-houses is a real kick in the teeth, but at least you can guarantee having all the spells in any lore of your choice and build your army list around that - though if you aren't already specifically list-tailoring around a near 800-point model then I think you have got your priorities all wrong. Like any named Slaan, Mazdamundi does come stock with some of the Disciplines of the Old Ones, namely the Becalming Cogitation (can re-roll his first failed dispel each turn), Harmonic Convergence (rolls 3 dice when channeling), Soul of Stone (when rollig on the misfire chart can add or subtract 1) and Transcendent Healing (at the end of a your magic phase, can roll a D6 per wound lost and on a 6 regains a wound) disciplines. To boil it all down to the basic, once dice averages are involved, Mazdamundi will re-roll his first failed dispel attempt per opposing Magic phase, he will successfully channel once every game turn on average (by channeling two extra dice than normal), he can modify miscast results ever so slightly and has what effectively amounts to the old (and mediocre) Tyranid Regeneration. These are solid disciplines to have but ultimately the fact that Transcendent Healing won't work for Zlaaq and the fact that an opponent can pretty easily kill Mazdamundi in one round with combined forces that cost less doesn't really help his chances. The only other noteworthy thing about the ancient Slaan is his magical banner which can be used to impose a -1 to hit penalty on all enemy units shooting at friendly Lizardmen units within 12” - including Mazdamundi himself - for a single enemy turn. While this is pretty darned handy not only for the army but also the giant target that is Mazdamundi, that what is most likely to kill him doesn't operate off of Ballistic Skill means its uses are rather limited. Let us be frank here; this is not the profile of a near 800 point model that is supposed to be arguably the most powerful living mage in Warhammer Fantasy. That Teclis, Nagash and Mannfred von Carstein are undeniably better spell-casters (or at least dominate the magic phase better) than Mazdamundi - heck, any Undead Level 4 Wizard backed by a Hierotitan and Casket of Souls works - is not only disappointing but it really forces players to think long and hard about the worth of the Lord of Hexoatl. If he came with the ancient stegadon as an option (thus saving 230pts and removing the biggest liability of the model), then he would be an excellent choice, if only due to the loremaster ability. Kroq-Gar – 520pts
Before we begin, let us look at the cost of an Old Blood riding a Carnosaur with no upgrades between them; this combo is exactly 180 points cheaper than Kroq-Gar and Grymloq - keep this in mind throughout the review. While Kroq-Gar shares the exact same stats as a regular Old Blood, Grymloq gets one more attack than normal which is always handy seeing as it is a purely combat-oriented monster. The special rules are also largely correlative between the named and generic equivalents, with Kroq-Gar and Grymloq having two unique special rules between them and the latter featuring the Swiftstride upgrade natively - though Grymloq does lack the very useful Bloodroar upgrade, unfortunately. Kroq-Gar also features light armour natively which means you could consider the pairing as 155 points more expensive than the generic Old Blood on Carnosaur, so one need only view their unique traits to determine whether the added cost is worthwhile in this case. First of all, not only does Kroq-Gar himself have a 5+ ward save, but he also confers this to his Carnosaur which is completely off limits for a regular Old Blood. Seeing as the biggest problem with a Carnosaur is its fragility and not its damage output, this is a much needed trait for Kroq-Gar to posses. It also gives the Defender of Xhotl a combined 2+ armour save and 5+ ward save, making for a very durable Toughness 5 Lord choice. While he is mounted, Kroq-Gar also gains full benefit from his Revered Spear of Tlanxla, receiving a +1 Strength bonus on the turn he charges for a total of five Strength 6 attacks at Weapon Skill 6 on the charge in addition to Grymloq's 5 Strength 7 attacks. If Grymloq falls beneath Kroq-Gar, however, the Spear still provides its other benefit regardless which is that all unsaved wounds caused by it are doubled for the purposes of combat resolution, meaning Kroq-Gar will generally win almost any combat he is involved in, if the opponent relies purely on static combat resolution like ranks and standard bearers. Kroq-Gar also possesses the Hand of Gods, a Magic Item that functions as a bound spell with power level three. This is used to cast Shem's Burning Gaze from the Lore of Light, a spell that causes D6 Strength 4 Flaming hits on a single enemy unit within 24", increasing to 2D6 hits against Daemonic or Undead units. While Grymloq thankfully isn't subject to Frenzy in the same was as other Carnosaurs, removing chaff early on so that your preferred charges aren't impeded is still important and for this reason the Hand of Gods is a neat little item to have with a low power level. Just be aware that if you do miscast with it, it will be destroyed permanently as it is not an innate bound spell. On the side of Grymloq, the great Carnosaur trades the usual Blood Frenzy special rule for being Attuned to the Beast; Grymloq automatically passes Monster Reaction tests and gains Frenzy only if Kroq-Gar is slain. That Grymloq has the extra attack in his base profile means that anyone missing out on easily obtainable Frenzy should be satisfied, while those that are worried about Frenzy-baiting and forced pursuit can happily ignore those deficiencies. If you want an Old Blood on a Carnosaur, Kroq-Gar and Grymloq do make a solid combination with their shared 5+ ward save and ignoring the potentially massive downsides of the Monster Reaction table, but otherwise you are probably wondering if they are worth all those extra points over the generic equivalents. The short answer is not really, especially as for all his centuries of experience, he still rolls in with a LD of 8. The Hand of Gods is more of a little extra than anything else seeing as you can't use the boosted version, while the Revered Spear of Tlanxla has some really limiting effects - if an Old Blood riding a Carnosaur somehow loses a combat in the first place, you have done something wrong as a player or had horrendously bad luck with dice rolls. The reality is that for less points than Kroq-Gar and Grymloq, you can get an Old Blood with a 1+ re-rollable armour save and 4+ ward save riding a Carnosaur with both the Bloodroar and Loping Stride upgrades and still be roughly 50 points cheaper than the named variation. With the difference in points remaining, you can then give that Old Blood the Sword of Might for a permanent +1 Strength bonus regardless of whether he charges or not. While the Carnosaur is strictly worse in combat than Grymloq, that it has the Bloodroar upgrade means that you can cause a crazy number of failed Terror tests and resulting pursuits with the Carnosaur that Kroq-Gar's Hand of Gods simply cannot match. You will also care less about the Attuned to the Beast rule as the generic Old Blood is both far more survivable and more consistently damaging than Kroq-Gar, meaning that you are far less likely to have to take a Monster Reaction test on the Carnosaur anyway. Overall, Carnosaurs are best used in specific lists that capitalize on their Bloodroar upgrade as they are just far too expensive and fragile for what they can otherwise achieve in a game, and none of Kroq-Gar or Grymloq's upgrades other than the shared 5+ ward save help to alleviate that huge issue. Tehenhauin – 230pts
The Prophet of Sotek is a very interesting character. He isn't quite as useful as a regular Slaan Mage Priest, being locked into one lore and only a level 3 but he far exceeds a skink priest and his profile is far closer to that of a Skink Chief than anything else in the book (his stat line is probably closest to a General of the Empire – though losing a point of toughness for an increase to initiative). While you normally wouldn't expect a Lord choice Wizard to be a combat character, Tehenhauin bucks this trend by having three Strength 5 attacks on the charge that are Poisoned, all at Weapon Skill 6 and Initiative 6. In addition, he also gets to make an extra D6 Strength 2 Poisoned attacks at Initiative 1 to represent the masses of snakes drawn to the self-styled Prophet of Sotek. He also, like other skinks, can be mounted on an ancient stegadon with an Engine of the Gods. Though an Engine will help with his casting (making him a sudo level 4), it comes with all the drawbacks already listed under Maxdamundi, so don’t just don’t. If you are that desperate for an ancient stegadon with Engine of the Gods, buy one separately from the rare slot. In addition he also loses his snake attacks if mounted (not that they were game breaking). Considering that he is also a Level 3 Wizard and has some decent defensive stats with a 5+ armour save and 5+ ward save on top of three Wounds (albeit at Toughness 3), Tehenhauin is certainly a valuable little Skink. Having an immunity to Poisoned attacks is a situational but certainly nice little defensive boost even it is rendered mostly redundant by having a lowly Toughness 3, while allowing all Skinks in your army to purchase Hatred of Skaven for a single point per model is a very fluffy, if highly situational and tailored rule and one you won’t really use unless playing a narrative game. As a Level 3 Wizard Tehenhauin does leave you a tad bit short on magic defence much like many Undead players are discovering with Neferata, though the fact that Tehenhauin is a whopping 70 points cheaper than a Slaan gives Lizardmen players a Lord choice Wizard option that is affordable alongside an Old Blood on a Carnosaur. Being restricted to the Lore of the Beasts is obviously a downside compared to generic spell-casters but having three spells from a Lore that has natural synergy with the numerous Monsters the army can field is very nice; Wyssan's is always a great spell, as are the Amber Spear, Curse of Anraheir and Savage Beasts. While they don't shore up the weaknesses in a Lizardmen list quite as well as the Lore of Light or various other spell lores do, the Lore of Beasts is still a pretty decent spell lore to be stuck with on a named character, all things considered. Where Tehenhauin can get just a little bit silly is when he is attached to a unit of Jungle Swarms - he has specific permission to do so unlike all other characters - and shares their Unbreakable special rule, but allows the unit to ignore the Squish rule and thus never worry about losing combats ever again. Jungle Swarms are very handy to have for a combat-based Lizardmen list as they provide Poisoned Attacks for all friendly units attacking the enemy unit they are in base contact with, while the Ark of Sotek mounted on a cheap Bastilidon can freely reinforce their numbers each turn. While Tehenhauin won't benefit from a Look Out Sir roll while attached to the unit, having a cheap Unbreakable unit that can literally feed wounds to an opponent and have little care in the world is useful - especially for traditional "Skink Cloud" army lists that revolve around chaff and dominating the Movement phase. You can deploy these as widely or as thinly as you want, but keep in mind that Tehenhauin must unfortunately always be in the front rank - you can't do a "dart" formation with Tehenhauin hiding at the back, sadly. Realistically though, when you compare Tehenhauin to something like a High Elf Archmage using the Lore of Beasts, it is really hard to complain about his abilities and points costs. Yes, he isn't a Level 4 Wizard and that is definitely a big downside, but actually causing some pretty decent damage in close combat while simultaneously having better defensive stats than many other Lord level Wizards in addition to some situational special rules means that he is at worst, a decent if limited choice. He doesn't over-pay for his abilities and certainly has a place in many Lizardmen army lists, especially as he is incredibly cheap compared to all other high level wizard options in the army. While I will refrain from saying you should take Tehenhauin over a Slaan, at his points cost it is really rather difficult to truly take issue with what he provides for a Lizardmen army list. Another point of note is that Tehenhauin couldn’t care less if he miscasts when attached to a Jungle Swarm unit as the resulting damage will never match that inflicted upon a Slaan's surrounding Temple Guard, making him both a cheaper and safer high level wizard choice. As a final point, you can fit in Tehenhauin and an Oldblood on Carnosaur, into a list at 2,500pts. Overall he suffers for being a toolbox character. He is good at everything and that is his issue and why you rarely see him. In a competitive game, where you tend to want to maximise output, you will take a Slann if you want to have the best and most flexible magic, or an Oldblood for the killiest lord.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:08:42 GMT
Post 4 - HeroesSaurus Scar-Veteran – 80ptsIf the Saurus Oldblood is my pick for the most cost-efficient combat Lord in the game, for the points, then surely the Scar-Veteran is the best combat character in Warhammer Fantasy bar-none, given how inexpensive they are. While the points disparity between a Scar-Veteran and an Exalted Hero (for example) isn't quite as massive as the difference between an Oldblood and Chaos Lord, the Scar-Veteran is nonetheless a shining example of a combat character priced well. Where most other combat characters differ between the Lord and Hero by giving the former an increased Toughness in addition to the higher Weapon Skill, Strength, Initiative, Attacks and Leadership, a Scar-Veteran is one of the few Infantry Hero choices in the game that is Strength and Toughness 5 just like the Lord choice Oldblood. This means that the 60 point gap between the two is determined by the Oldblood's increased Weapon Skill, Wounds, Initiative, Attacks and Scaly Skin save (all by one) in addition to the higher Magic Item allowance, an exchange that seems fair and thus emphasizes how incredibly valuable both of them are. That is before one mentions that the Scar-Veteran costs less than a dozen points more than a High Elf Noble and trades the higher Initiative and Always Strikes First for Strength and Toughness 5, 4 attacks that can generate extras through Predatory Figher and a natural 5+ armour save that can be combined with all types of armour as normal. While using these characters to provide higher Leadership and Inspiring Presence to your units is rendered superfluous by them sharing the same Leadership 8 all Saurus possess, they are undeniably wrecking balls in combat and tough to boot. Having both Strength and Toughness 5 with 4 Attacks and good stats otherwise is simply amazing with Predatory Fighter thrown in and easily outweighs having a higher Initiative or Always Strikes First that many other armies' characters rely on. That they have Scaly Skin (5+) and can take both light armour and a shield on top of magic items and mounts gives them cheaply accessed means to boost their survivability by a huge amount, while their damage output can be made ridiculous and equivalent or superior to many combat Lords from other army books by equipping them solely with a great weapon. In fact, the best uses of these characters is as chaff or "cowboys" where you take two or more that ride Cold Ones, have a 1+ armour save and either re-rolls on failed armour saves, a ward save of some sort, the charmed shield or for additional fun, the crown of command, all while barely exceeding the 150 point mark. You will normally always give them great weapons as well, meaning each one is packing 4 str 7 attacks base, practically the equivalent of a Demigryph Knight (the combined model, not just the rider) on steroids. They may suffer from stupidity but with Leadership 8 and Cold-Blooded they should pass and stupidity does make them immune to psychology (and the cold one causes fear itself)! Not only will these "cowboys" bust through entire cavalry units, war machines and other chaff units by themselves with ease, they make for devastating flank or rear charge candidates with their mobility. I simply cannot recommend these veteran Saurus enough in a competitive list. It should also be mentioned that a scarvet can be your bsb. They rarely are, as if you are fielding a slann, they are pretty much always the general and bsb but in those instances where you don’t field one, then a scarvet is a more survivable option than the skink chief. Some example Scar-Vet builds can be found here: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1444/cowboy-builds-statisticsSkink Chief – 40ptsThe chief comes in at almost half the cost of the Scar-Veteran but the fact remains that if you want a combat character then a Saurus will always outmatch the Skink equivalent. The extra point of Leadership over rank and file skinks isn't all that helpful seeing as a Chief doesn't really fit with Skink Skirmishers or Chameleon Skinks, and Skink Cohorts can just use Kroxigor to provide a higher Leadership value than the Skink Chief. If you want a proper combat character or to provide higher Leadership to Skink units, the Scar-Veteran and either Kroxigor or non-Skink characters are a better bet every time. The Scar-Veteran is in the same slot and although costs twice as much as the Chief, you get +1 Weapon Skill, +1 Strength, +2 Toughness, +1 Attack, +2 Leadership, +1 to its Scaly Skin save and has Predatory Fighter instead of the Aquatic special rule - all of which is absolutely amazing for a combat character. So if he’s not a combat character, what other options are there? Well he can be mounted on a Terradon or a Ripperdactyl but whereas arguments can be made about Tik'taq'to joining Terradon units (see his entry), a Skink Chief is completely incapable of joining Terradon Rider or Ripperdactyl Rider units (though he would benefit from a 4+ look out sir if he were close enough to them). Either mount would give him the versatility of flying and with minimal magic items, he’d be a cheaper chaff option than terradons. The smaller footprint would allow him to squeeze through to where he was needed too, to hunt down warmachines etc. The Ripperdactyl is an interesting option as it would boost his offensive capabilities and make a reasonable (though likely suicidal) assassin. Potentially good for going for those wizards in bunkers. Note that a chief on Ripperdactyl, can’t place an additional Lustrian blot toad marker but should benefit from any markers already placed (though I’ve seen arguments against this). The Chief on Terradon also doesn’t gain the drop rocks rule. He does have some pros. 40 pts is really cheap for a character. He does also have a whopping initiative of 6, with the standard hero 3 attacks at Str 4. He can also be made a BSB and at 65pts is one of the cheapest in the game. He can also be mounted on a stegadon. It’s a great way to fit another in your list and if he’s the BSB, it would boost his range to 18”. Like the priest, if within 6” of a Saurus unit, he can also be used to prevent their automatic overrun As cheap as they are, you are probably better off taking a unit of Terradons as fast moving chaff or a Scar-Veteran "cowboy" for the immoveable object that kicks out a punch. Probably not your first pick but he does have utility as a more versatile option able to chaff, warmachine hunt or assassinate characters. Skink Priest – 65pts
Having cheap Wizards in an army where the only way to get a Level 4 is to spend over 300 points is always nice, but what really makes Skink Priests stand out is their access to both a Dispel Scroll and the Cube of Darkness. Lizardmen are one of only a few army books that can effectively field two Dispel Scroll equivalents because of their unique Arcane Item, the Cube of Darkness, which means two "scroll carriers" manifesting as Skink Priests pop up in many competitive Lizardmen lists. When you consider their primary role is to act as good spell defence mages rather than primary casters, their Arcane Vassal special rule, which allows a Slaan to cast spells using the Priest as a conduit, makes perfect sense - they are there to cast a helpful augment or hex spell every so often and outright stop a spell as necessary, but otherwise leave the power dice to your primary spellcaster. They also add another source of channeling to your list. If you do choose not to take a Slann for some reason (such as taking Duel Carnosaur lists), you will still have enough points to fit it a number of skink priests, to spam cast. Whereas other Hero choice Wizards tend to have Toughness 3, the Skink priest suffers the same terrible toughness 2 as the rest of his brethren, though he does get a 6+ scaly skin save. Considering that he’ll most likely be either bunkered in with other skinks or zipping around utilising an item that gives him fly, it shouldn’t be too much of an issue but it is worth noting that he’s even more paperthin than most hero wizards! He also comes with a pretty poor leadership value (6) but this is somewhat balanced by having the Cold-Blooded special rule and it’s on par with the Skink Chief and still improves the LD of any skink unit he joins. The limited choice of available spell lores, does make them quite a bit less versatile than Empire Wizards (for example) but both the Lore of Heavens and the Lore of Beasts are a decent fit with Lizardmen, with 2 of the best signature spells in the game, so this isn't a major issue. You do also have the ability to put the Skink Priest on an Ancient Stegadon. This is automatically upgraded with the Engine of the Gods (and you pay the points for it) and is another way of fitting an extra stegadon in your list, but the Engine is of debateable worth and if you wanted to go this route, you’d probably be better off using a skink chief to fit it in and keeping the priest on foot and hidden. Chakax – 270pts
For a character that is over three times as expensive as his generic counter-part in the Saurus Scar-Veteran, Chakax offers very little for his points cost. Not even a fully tooled out Oldblood on foot will come anywhere close to being as expensive as Chakax, and that is a tremendous flaw to have for a hero choice that is so limited. Of course, there are some decent if not good aspects to Chakax that make him a consideration for a themed army list - especially if you (somehow) find your Slaan Mage Priest being singled out. For starters, while his basic profile is identical to that of a regular Scar-Veteran, Chakax not only shares the Guardians special rule with Temple Guard but makes any Temple Guard that both he and a Slaan join Unbreakable - similar to Lord Kroak. For a unit of Toughness 4 models with a 4+ armour save and a lot of melee punch this is a pretty hefty boost given that it will likely perform a huge part in your army lists' strategy, though one has to remember a Leadership 10 Slaan that is a Battle Standard Bearer with the Standard of Discipline will make a Cold-Blooded unit virtually immune to failing a Leadership test anyway. Additionally, Chakax is forced to issue and accept challenges much like a Champion of Chaos, but instead of a possible benefit for succeeding in the challenge like the debased scions of Chaos, Chakax instead can re-roll all failed to hit rolls in the challenge. This is impressive enough given the base Strength 5 and Predatory Fighter of a Scar-Veteran, but throw in Chakax' magical great weapon and it could make an opponent pause for thought. His Star-Stone Mace functions just like a great weapon by conferring +2 Strength and Always Strikes Last to him in close combat, but it has a very cool unique effect similar to Mazdamundi's Cobra Mace. This works by rolling a D6 as soon as Chakax scores a hit against an opponent; a roll of a 5+ will randomly destroy a magic item wielded by the opponent. That opponents in base contact with Chakax must reveal all of their magic items to his controlling player at the start of the Close Combat phase (before challenges are issued) would be awesome if Chakax could defer a challenge to a unit champion, but alas it is not so unfortunately. Chakax's magical helmet, light armour and natural Scaly Skin (5+) provide him with a total armour save of 3+ which is decent for an infantry model on foot, though obviously this won't save him against hard hitters in close even with his native Toughness 5. The Key to the Eternity Chamber helps to solve this issue by providing Chakax with a 5+ ward save when fighting in a challenge, though this restriction unfortunately means he is still very susceptible to character-less units of Ironguts, White Lions, Executioners and so on. The general idea behind Chakax is that he gets into a challenge where he is quite a bit harder to kill, can potentially destroy magic items against a tougher opponent before it beats him down, and also devastates weaker enemies with his four Strength 7 attacks that re-roll to hit and provide extra attacks for every roll of a 6 through the Predatory Figher special rule. He is suited to taking down his challenger just as he dies by conferring Always Strikes Last on the opponent so that he can pummel them as they strike rather than have to endure their attacks first, though this obviously won't work against enemies that have Always Strikes First such as any Elf or your typical Vampire. That Chakax prevents Scouts from being deployed and hidden models from remaining hidden both within 20" is a pretty nice ability as well and suits his status as a legendary Temple Guardian. Unfortunately, that's when you realize any dedicated combat character will not only shred him in a challenge but is likely to survive as well, especially if it is something like a tooled up Dreadlord or Vampire Lord with Quickblood. His combat abilities are undeniably impressive and should obliterate almost any Hero choice and some Lord choices once you consider he re-rolls to hit at Strength 7 and can generate extra attacks, especially as his likely proximity to a Slaan should see him benefit from one or more handy augment spells. Still, the same can be easily accomplished with an Oldblood and you don't need to pay nearly as much for greater damage output and survivability. One might consider his unique Temple Guard-oriented abilities to be the justification behind his insane price, but the reality is that those abilities are entirely unnecessary; if you take that aforementioned Slaan with the Battle Standard and the Standard of Discipline in a Temple Guard unit, that regiment simply will not budge. Even with Doom and Darkness cast on the unit, they are still incredibly likely to pass every single Leadership test thrown at them because of the Cold-Blooded special rule in conjunction with the re-roll for failed tests. Additionally, having a challenge-monkey available to protect a Slaan is unnecessary as, unlike Kroxigor in a Skink Cohort unit, models in the front rank of an enemy unit are incapable of targeting a Slaan. If you really need one, not only is an Oldnlood much cheaper when equipped with the full magic item allowance but it also roughly the same or more than Chakax for much less - and the Oldblood is a Lord choice! Chakax would be an amazing choice if he was roughly 50 points cheaper and could compete with an Oldblood, but as it is he is just far too expensive for what he provides - that he has only two wounds and four attacks makes him an inferior choice to the Oldblood every time. Don't forget that a miscasting Slaan in a Temple Guard unit is a huge risk to Chakax, and makes their inclusion in such a regiment even more questionable as a result! He is definitely one for the model cabinent and just to be fielded in fluffy games. Gor-Rok – 185pts
If you compare Gor-Rok to Chakaz, the Great White Lizard feels like a bargin. Where Chakax shared an identical profile with your usual Scar-Veteran, Gor-Rok is mostly the same but has an improved Toughness 6 making him incredibly resistant to medium or low Strength attacks. Combine this with a very nice 2+ armour save and despite having only two wounds, Gor-Rok is one of the toughest foot heroes in the game. Though missing the ever-useful wardsave, Gor-Rok also has an immunity to Killing Blow, Heroic Killing Blow and Multiple Wounds, as long as he rolls a 2 on a separate D6 roll, though when you consider that he has only two wounds this ability really isn't all that impressive. At the very least, Gor-Rok does force any model that ends up in base contact with him, after they charge in to his unit, to take Dangerous Terrain test, that fail on a 1 or 2 rather than just a 1, which is a nice little extra if nothing else. His damage output is also decent by always re-rolling all failed to hit rolls at Strength 5 and generating extra attacks via the Predatory Fighter special rule on rolls of a 5 or 6 instead of solely a 6, meaning that he will brutalize lightly armoured enemies but is still quite limited against heavily armoured opponents. One might say he sounds like a watered-down Chakax but that isn't exactly a bad thing when you consider how ridiculously over-priced the Eternal Guardian is, and Gor-Rok actually works well with any combat block rather than just Temple Guard joined by a Slaan. The reason for this is that Gor-Rok's abilities not only work outside of a challenge and he isn't forced to issue or accept challenges you feel would favour the opponent, but he also acts as an additional Crown of Command by providing the Stubborn special rule to any unit he joins. That he is Immune to Psychology as well, is nice but giving Saurus Warriors, Temple Guard or any other number of units the Stubborn special rule is very more impressive, especially in conjunction with the awesome army-wide Cold-Blooded rules. Where Chakax reads as a wannabe Oldblood with a higher price tag, Gor-Rok is actually priced competitively, compared to a Scar-Veteran with similar upgrades and is worthwhile solely as a cheap Stubborn-providing character to anchor a battle line. While I would still prefer a standard Scar-Veteran "cowboy" in most army lists and give a scarvet or oldblood with the sacred helm of itza and you have a sudo Gor-Rok but he is well priced for what he does and is definitely one of the better special characters in the Lizardmen army book. Definitely worth considering. Tetto'eko – 185pts
Despite being priced identically to Gor-Rok, who we have already noted is a competitive Hero choice, Tetto'eko is easily the best special character available to the Defenders of Lustria and is argueably one of the best hero characters in the game for his cost. His profile is admittedly terrible, with Tetto'eko (or 'Tetto" in short-form) being all but useless in close combat and having a pathetic two wounds at Toughness 2 with only a 6+ armour save and a 5+ ward save (from his slann like palanquin) for defence, meaning he should never be alone or in a fight. The amusing aspect of Tetto's rules comes from his affinity with Skink Cohorts, much like a Slaan has with Temple Guard, able to join their second rank and be all but immune to shooting and close combat attacks as a result. You could see them as the typical Slaan and Temple Guard combo at discount prices and replacing the Saurus with Skinks, but rules-wise it creates some interesting dilemmas. While you can field roughly three Skinks for the price of one Temple Guardian, the latter won't fall over in a heap when a Zombie so much as touches them. The idea works in principle though by providing sheer bodies over armour, but generally this is a unit that should be sitting back as a bunker more than anything else, though it could be worth fielding them with Tetto and 2 Kroxigor to provide some muscle and you have to use your core points on something. An alternative is to field him in a unit of skink skirmishers. He still gains protection from shooting and with the skirmisher movement, should be able to avoid any form of combat. Much like his probable Skink attendants, Tetto has the usual Aquatic and Cold-Blooded special rules in addition to a host of unique rules, though in a more general sense he is a Level 2 Wizard that uses the Lore of Heavens. Whether you are a fan of the Lore of Heavens or not won't matter here as Tetto is a Loremaster of that discipline and has a particular affinity with the Comet of Cassandora, allowing him to re-roll the dice to see if it arrives or not. While this in itself is very impressive for a hero choice that doesn't break the 200 point mark, considering the incredible utility of the Lore of Heavens and the area-denial potential of a more readily controlled Comet, Tetto's other special rules are what truly seals his place in all types of competitive lists. The Great Astromancer allows D3 friendly units to make a Vanguard movement after they have deployed which makes Tetto possibly the most flexible character for Lizardmen, giving anyone from dedicated melee units like Kroxigor to short-ranged unit devastators like Salamanders what amounts to a free move before the game begins. This can be used to help you to react to enemy deployment like the placement of Scouts or particular units as a method of exposing vulnerable war machines or lightly armed units, or as just a way to get your combat blocks into combat that much faster. Additionally, Tetto forces you to roll a D6 at the start of every friendly Magic phase, giving both himself and friendly Wizards either re-rolls of 1s on any power dice rolled or re-rolls of 6s of any power dice rolled depending on whether the separate D6 roll is a 2+ or a 1, with the re-rolls of 1s being the far more common result. While this can potentially serve to neuter your casting attempts but simultaneously severely reduce the chances of friendly miscasts, the big boost to reliable casting attempts is just amazing and can make a huge difference when you are low on power dice and can't afford to fail at casting certain spells. Though this ability can also increases the likelihood that your Wizards - including Tetto'eko himself - suffer a miscast. For less than 200 points Tetto'eko qualifies not just as the best Hero choice spellcaster for Lizardmen but also easily the best support and overall character in the army book, packing so much value on to such a fragile body. Tik'taq'to – 170pts
Before we begin, let me address one particularly glaring issue with Tik'taq'to's rules; yes, per the rules as written there is nothing here that allows the Master of the Skies to join a friendly Terradon unit by overruling the rulebook in regards to characters joining flying units. While his rules do specifically mention what bonuses he provides to a Terradon unit he joins, this is rendered superfluous by the lack of any special rule specifically stating that he can in fact join those units - remember, Warhammer Fantasy uses a permissive rule system, and there is no exception to the usual rules listed for Tik'taq'to. Now, I fully believe that he should be allowed to join them per the rules as intended and would let any opposing or allied Lizardmen player to play Tik'taq'to as being able to join units of Terradons, but you need to clear this up with your opponent before each game to ensure there are no future rule arguments. With that out the way, it's worth saying that you probably won't have to bother arguing over Tik'taq'to's ability to join flying units, as he isn't really worth the investment anyway. The same exact profile as a regular Skink Chief and a price nearly 100 points more than a stock standard Chief on a Terradon aside, he does at least have some useful magic items and unique abilities to make him a consideration at best. His Blade of Ancient Skies ignore armour saves which is decent considering he has three Strength 4 attacks at Initiative 6, while his Mask of Heavens allows friendly Terradons (but not the riders) in the same unit to use his Weapon Skill instead of their own, amounting to an increase of one point which is about as minimal as it gets. At the very least this does mean the Terradons will hit Weapon Skill 3 opponents on 3s rather than 4s but seeing as they aren't really all that good in close combat anyway with one Strength 4 attack each at Initiative 2 this isn't anything ground-breaking. The only other additional ability he provides, without having to pay extra on other models for, is imposing a -1 to-hit penalty on all shooting attacks made against both himself and any attached Terradon unit, which is definitely good for a flying skirmisher unit of this kind as combined will infer a -2 penalty, but ultimately it won't save them from massed shooting or Trueflight Arrow-wielding Glade Guard given their fragility. The other effect he gives your army is a paid-for Ambushers upgrade to a single unit of Terradon Riders that he is thus intended to join. Given that this unit can already Vanguard, Drop Rocks and pressure war machines from turn one and because ambusher is a risky ability given you need to roll a 3+ to enter the battle, I don't find this to be a particularly useful, especially given you have to pay for it. Sadly, that's really all there is to Tik'taq'to and while those abilities might be worthwhile if he had several more wounds than a regular member, one need only check the Monstrous Cavalry entry in the main rulebook to see that not only does a Terradon Rider share the same Wounds and Toughness as Tik'taq'to but their Terradons are also identical in every way to his own named mount, Zwup. There's just nothing to really recommend Tik'taq'to here unless you absolutely need the Ambushers deployment, but I can't fathom where a flying cavalry unit that combines Vanguard with Movement 10 and Swiftstride would ever need that. It doesn't help that you can take five Terradon Riders with no upgrades for only a few points more than Tik'taq'to himself with each being just as durable as the venerable sky rider is just the last blow in this characters' competitive chances. Oxyotl – 120pts
While I won't begin with a prelude to this character centred on a crucial rules debate, I will say that you just should not bother with a character intended as a Skirmisher Hero choice, that is just as expensive as a near full unit of the ones he is intended to support. Ballistic Skill 6 aside, this is your average Skink Chief albeit with only a 6+ Scaly Skin save for defence and the usual additions a Chameleon Skink possesses, including the titular Chameleon and Scouts special rules. Seeing as his Chameleon rule is useless unless he joins a unit of Chameleon Skinks and that same unit is also the only other one in the army that can Scout, it is quite obvious who Oxyotl should join in your army list. So what exactly does Oxyotl do for that generally very useful Special choice anyway? Firstly, he has the Sniper special rule allowing him to target individual models out of a unit, such as vulnerable spellcasters, rather than be forced to shoot at the regular rank-and-file models. His Magic Weapon, the hilariously silly Golden Blowpipe of P'Toohee, functions just like any other regular blowpipe save that it fires one extra shot (so multiple shots 3). In addition, if Oxyotl remains stationary in the previous Movement phase then in his next Shooting phase he will land Poisoned shots on rolls of a 5+ rather than just a 6+. And....that's all, folks. What exactly does Oxyotl do for Chameleon Skinks, you might ask? Nothing, unless you count firing one extra shot than a regular Chameleon Skink at a slightly higher Ballistic Skill that can target characters hiding in units but is still a mere Strength 3 and thus won't do much of anything except against Hero choice Wizards. By the by, having Poisoned shots on a 5+ provided Oxyotl doesn't move is immensely counter-intuitive when you remember that Scouting Skirmishers that are short-ranged and are incredibly fragile should always be moving to stay away from predatory combat blocks or out of range of enemy gunfire, allowing them to pick off lone wizards and war machines at their leisure. If the characters are alone, Oxyotl becomes superfluous as the rest of the unit will do the same job both cheaper and better, and if you are hunting war machines then having the Sniper special rule with your Poisoned shots is practically worthless. Here's the deal; you can take ten Chameleon Skinks for two handfuls worth of points more than Oxyotl and have 20 Strength 3 Poisoned shots at Ballistic Skill 4 as opposed to 3 Strength 3 Poisoned shots at Ballistic Skill 6. Which sounds better? If you answered the former then congratulations, you have your answer on what you should take over Oxyotl in any army list you could think of unless you are particularly attached to the model or fluff. There is absolutely nothing to recommend about Oxyotl, especially as he is three times the cost of a bare Skink Chief but is a pathetic imitation of just one that is kitted out. Don't bother trying to take him by himself to make use of his special rule benefiting from being stationary; you may as well just be handing your opponent free victory points. For a character that is over 8,000 years old and spent millennia in the realm of chaos assassinating greater daemons, you would expect better.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:08:54 GMT
Post 5 - Dedicated Mounts
Carnosaur – 220pts
On paper the Carnosaur is quite literally a beast, with 4 str 7 attacks and each wound becoming D3 wounds. So anything it hits will more than likely die. The downside is that they hit at WS 3 and initiative 2, so will normally hit on a 4+ and after most things have had a pop at it first. So the question becomes, will it get to attack at all? Well at toughness 5, with 5 wounds and a 4+ save, it is reasonably surviveable but in a frontal attack and against anything with great weapons, expect it to be taken out in short order. Is there anything that can be done to improve this? Well yes there is. For an additional 25pts, you can give it the Bloodroar upgrade. This means that any unit taking a Fear or Terror test must roll an additional D6 and discard the lowest. This gives you a much better chance of causing units to fail their tests, meaning they either run away when you charge them or are reduced to WS1, so you will hit them on a 3+ and they will only hit you back on a 5+. This makes this upgrade an almost auto-include and makes the 15pt Loping stride upgrade (to give the carnosaur swiftstride, meaning you are more likely to make contact on a charge), also worth considering. This does then mean the monster is a whopping 260pts, not including the rider. Even with the upgrades, you will still need to consider its tagets carefully as the prevalence of LD10 general bubbles with BSB re-rolls and even units that are unbreakable or immune to psychology, mean that terror/fear are often of limited use, so often the best targets are those on the edge of battle lines or outside of the general/bsb bubbles.
So what else does the monster give you? Being a large target boosts any general/bsb range to 18”. They also have cold-blooded (though the rider does too and you’ll be using their leadership most of the time). They also have Blood Frenzy. As soon as the monster inflicts an unsaved wound, they gain frenzy for the rest of the game and can never lose it. An extra attack is nice but frenzy is a double edged sword at the best of times.
It’s worth noting that it is available as a mount for both an Oldbood and a scarvet, so if you wanted to bring a Slann, you can still fit one in your Hero allowance, or you can go for broke and field one in the hero and one in the lord slots. At that point you will be wanting to build your list around them and it’s the starting block for the fabled monster mash list.
The final point I want to reemphasis is its cost, with upgrades. 260pts. That is expensive. If you compare it with the Kharibdyss from the darkelf book, that has an impressive Weapon Skill 5 as opposed to the Carnosaur's Weapon Skill 3, meaning that unless it suffers from a to-hit modifier it will never need worse than a 4+ to hit an enemy unit in close combat and will hit the majority of other monsters and units in the game on a 3+. Both share the exact same Strength, Toughness, Wounds and Scaly Skin armour save of a 4+. Both cause Terror and are Large Targets, while the Carnosaur has Movement 7, the Kharibdyss has an ever so slightly lower Movement 6. A Kharibdyss has five base attacks and the Poisoned Attacks special rule, making it quite a bit more reliable. On the other hand, a Carnosaur has four attacks base with the potential to go up to five attacks, the latter being dependent on the Carnosaur causing at least one unsaved wound in any close combat.
As for attacking single models, a Kharibdyss gains an additional D6 automatic Strength 7 hits against any single model that is hit by all five of its regular attacks, whereas the Carnosaur inflicts Multiple Wounds (D3) on all of its attacks. It is also important to note that a Kharibdyss is Initiative 4 rather than sharing the abysmally low Initiative 2 of the Carnosaur. When you crunch the numbers against all manner of monstrous or multiple-wound opponents, that both monsters are clearly intended to fight, the Kharibdyss usually ends up being the victor - being Weapon Skill 5 and Initiative 4 are huge advantages to have for any monster. This allows the Kharibdyss to hit enemy monsters on 3s and often strike first as well, whereas a Carnosaur will struggle to hit other monsters - let alone Weapon Skill 7 or higher models - and suffers by often going last in a direct combat. Considering that Toughness 5, 5 Wounds and a 4+ armour save really aren't great defensive stats as far as monsters are concerned, this is a pretty significant deficiency that one could say is outweighed by its damage output. For average damage output the two are pretty evenly matched with the Kharibdyss hitting more often with the chance for an extra D6 Strength 7 hits as well as usually getting to strike before it dies and easily beating the Carnosaur against models with one wound each, whereas a Carnosaur hits harder against models with multiple wounds but is a bit more reliant on augment spells to guarantee it doesn't stuff up its rolls.
One also shouldn't forget that a Kharibdyss comes stock with the Abyssal Howl special rule, forcing enemy units in base contact with it to re-roll all successful Leadership tests - effectively cancelling out the Hold Your Ground special rule from a Battle Standard Bearer - unless the majority of models in the unit have one or more of the Fear, Terror and Immune to Psychology special rules. This is a very handy ability for a monster that will often be used to flank-charge infantry regiments and can lead to many games won based on your opponent basically being unable to benefit from a Battle Standard Bearer - if you are forced to re-roll both passes and failures then the effects are considered to cancel each other you - which can make such a huge difference for an aggressive army like Dark Elves. The Carnosaur can purchase a similar kind of ability in principle, but it does not come with it stock. As two similar monsters with identical survivability and similar damage output with the Kharibdyss having a useful Leadership-based ability, you would expect the two monsters to be priced roughly the same with perhaps the Carnosaur being either ten points more or less than a Kharibdyss? Unfortunately, that's just the thing - while a Kharibdyss is well priced at 160pts and occupies a Rare slot, a Carnosaur is sixty points more than a Kharibdyss (before upgrades – 100pts more expensive after upgrades!) and is exclusively a mount option. Not only is the Carnosaur far more expensive than it should be individually but it must also be forced to take a rider that adds to the cost of the model considerably. This may be more of a reflection that the Kharibdyss is undercosted, rather than the Carnosaur being overcosted (or a bit of both). Does this mean that the carnosaur is not worth taking? Probably, if only because of the opportunity cost. If you are taking 2, then you will be sacrificing taking a Slann. If you are taking one in the hero slot, then it will likely be costing 330pts at minimum (probably closer to 400pts) and that could have bought you a lot of other things. That said, taking 2 carnosaurs together with a lot of other monsters can be incredibly fun and still reasonably competitive against the right opponent/list that is not expecting it.
Cold One – 20pts
Seeing as this is your only actual cavalry mount throughout the entire army book, the Cold One may as well be the staple of the Lizardmen mount options. These are identical in every way to their Dark Elf counter-parts (except for the models, such a shame) in terms of pricing and stats. This is because unlike the majority of horses in the game, Cold Ones are actually capable of doing a lot of damage themselves, providing two Strength 4 attacks at Weapon Skill 3 and Initiative 2. While these attacks don't benefit from any special rules, they really help out heavy cavalry with one of their huge issues by cutting through rank and file models with far greater speed than other heavy cavalry units. It causes Fear but comes with the cursed Stupidity special rule, though this can be seen as a mixed blessing; units that suffer from Stupidity are also Immune to Psychology as a result, meaning your Lizardmen ground cavalry models or units will never worry about Panic, Terror and Fear tests ever again. Considering all models riding Cold Ones are Leadership 8 with the Cold-Blooded special rule at minimum, this really isn't a bad deal at all whether it be for a Hero or Lord riding one or the actual Cold One Cavalry. Other than these traits, the Cold One offers from your usual "barded warhorse" traits; Movement 7 and a +2 bonus to the armour save of the rider. Not only are these integral to all "cowboy" builds that are infamous among competitive Lizardmen armies, but they are generally just well-priced mount options that make all those armies using regular horses very jealous indeed. You will rarely face a competitive Lizardmen list with out at least one of these in it.
Terradon – 35pts
As a Monstrous Beast, a Skink Chief riding one of these is treated as a Monstrous Cavalry model, however, as the Terradon has identical Toughness and Wounds to a Skink Chief (its only character rider option) this is practically a moot point as he doesn’t gain any of the normal advantages of taking a monstrous mount (i.e. the increase to his wounds and toughness). I mention this because of the Special unit consisting of entire regiments of these; the Terradon Riders. A Skink Chief on a Terradon is priced at just over double the cost of two Terradon Riders but offers identical survivability before any upgrades are considered, and the damage output just barely favours the Chief. On top of that, the terradon has the same toughness and wounds as the chief, so. The chief also doesn’t get the drop rocks ability. Now with that said, taking a chief with this mount, over a unit, does mean that the points come out of the hero allowance rather than the congested special slot and having a hunter with the fly ability is far more flexible than a scarvet on a coldone (which this is often said to be in direct comparison with this model). On the subject of points, a bare minimal build of chief with spear, light armour, enchanted shield and dragonbane gem (for 3 initiative 6, str 5 attacks on the charge and a 2+ save and 2++ ward vs flaming) comes in at 89pts. A similar build on a scarvet cowboy, with a dragonhelm, light armour and great weapon comes in at 120pts. With the higher initiative, movement and fly, I would consider the chief on flying mount to be an assassin/warmachine hunter at first instance.
Ripperdactyl – 40pts
The more expensive of the two flying mounts available to a Skink Chief, a Ripperdactyl offers all the same issues as a Terradon but gives heavily increased combat potential. This is probably the one you should use as a Skink Chief, if going for out and out attacking potential as with a spear, light armour and shield, mounted on one will have a 3+ combined armour save and offer three Strength 5 plus three Strength 4 Armour Piercing attacks on the charge, the latter trio also with the potential for Killing Blow. That's not bad for a shade under 90 points when you consider that a pair of Ripperdactyl Riders in the Special slot will instead have two regular Strength 4 attacks plus six Strength 4 Armour Piercing attacks that have Killing Blow. Sadly, the same problem of survivability rears its ugly head – and adding in frenzy with LD 6, means you have to be careful with your placement of the unit, as Cold-Blooded can only do so much.
Ancient Stegadon
The skink chief can take a standard ancient stegadon as a mount and the skink priest can take an ancient stegadon which must have an Engine of the Gods upgrade. These are exactly the same as the rare options, so please see that section for detail on the mount. It's worth noting again that it is a way of fitting more stegadons into your list and also that the characters are as vulnerable as any other to cannons but they are also only skinks and cheap to boot!
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:09:08 GMT
Post 6 - Core Units
Skink Cohort – 5pts per modelThese can basically be broken down into 2 ways of fielding them: • Vanilla Cohorts (just skinks) • Skroxigor (mixed units of Skinks and Kroxigor) Skinks are basically unchanged in this book. Scaly Skin 6+ combined with shields, give the skinks a 5+ save and 6++ parry and means our Skinks will survive a little longer, though at toughness 2, any enemy will still mince through them. Ld 5 means it’s more important to keep your larger Skink units close to your general, especially if you plan to use it as a tarpit (the only real use for the larger unit). Since smaller Cohorts are pretty much supposed to flee, the reduced Ld is less of an issue for them. They have M6 and have initiative 4 so are reasonably fast both in movement and when attacking. Their javelins give poison when shooting and you can also give them poison in combat for an additional 2pts per model. Vanilla Cohorts
The first thing to decide on when taking the vanilla cohort is what size unit to go for. Minimalist, 10 Skinks: This is the cheapest unit we can field. When any unit suffices, a skink cohort will do. A lot of tournaments have special rules for bonus points for controlling certain terrain features and often require a standard in a unit to do so. Sometimes after clearing a space you need to move your combat units to clear the enemy. You can do worse than leave a skink cohort there. Of course they won’t be able to find to fight back against much, but if you keep the pressure on your foe with your main units the Skinks won’t have to fight back. A cheap cohort can draw out things like Goblin Fanatics, redirect charges (especially of a frenzied unit). They can also screen your forces. Skinks Skirmishers are a more maneuverable, but they cost more. If you are very good at positioning you can counter balance the lack of maneuverability and really maximize the use of your points. Some people are so good at redirecting and screening with small Skink cohorts that they are being partially restricted in some events. (I believe ETC is going to eventually restrict every LM unit that starts with “S”). Also, they can still throw poisoned javelins at things while they are waiting for their command to die for the greater good. A block of cheap skinks can still deny ranks with a flank charge (just make sure you don’t give them free CR with easy kills). A musician is a good idea since your unit is likely to be strategically fleeing a lot. Any other leadership upgrade is probably a luxury purchase (dependant on the comp pack). Small, 11-19 Skinks: No idea what to do with a unit this size. It’s too big to be small, too small to be big. MAYBE it can serve as a bunker versus shooting and magic missiles to a paranoid player with a skink priest (or perhaps even better, Tetto’Eko), but most players prefer a maneuverable team of skirmishers to put standard priests in, especially with how useful Arcane Vassals have become in the book. If you want to protect your skink priest with a block, a unit champion and musician would not be amiss. A standard bearer wouldn’t be a terrible idea if a Breaking Point Scenario is a possibility, but otherwise you can probably leave your standard at home. Medium, 20 Skinks: Still too small to be big. I see the main purpose of these guys being a place holder in a Watchtower Scenario. If you can, keep them in Slann General/BSB within 12 inches on turn one, the skinks will hold out till they are wiped out. Their Stubborn Cold blooded Ld 6 is adequate if not great for holding the tower for a turn or two (and with a quick to fire missile weapon, will get poisoned shots off every time they are charged regardless of the charge distance). They don’t have to stay there all game, just long enough to let your large Saurus blocks get in there and they only have to fight ten models at a time. The problem is what to do with 20 Skinks outside the Watchtower scenario. Command upgrades would probably be of little use here. I got a friend at my gaming store who collects several armies and is a part time LM player. He has had some success using a flanking force of 20-25 skinks back up his Saurus. Being much better than I at positioning his battle lines he can make sure the skinks provide support where they are useful and aren’t open to an enemy attack. I have had a decent amount of success garrisoning buildings with a 20 model unit of Skinks and generally being a nuisance to remove. Quick to Fire Poison combined with Stubborn does not need a Watchtower Scenario to be useful given how common buildings are as a terrain feature. A 20 Skink block is the only type of vanilla Cohort where I’d even consider springing the extra points for poisoned melee attacks. A smaller unit will probably die before poisoning anything and a larger unit would become prohibitively expensive. Large, 21-49 Skinks: Another awkward size. Perhaps a special scenario with buildings you are defending would give you a use for blocks this size. Skinks are cheap place holders and can throw a lot of javelins at anything assaulting a building. Qupakoco found more use for this block than I could. QUPAKOCO SAID: For units of 21-49 skinks, I have used them a few times as tarpit tarpits. They hold up relatively well against Skaven Slaves, Giant Rat Darts, and sometimes against Goblin hordes. It'll throw a small wrench in your opponent’s plans. They also make good screens for your saurus and can sometimes be used to get rear-charges, if you are lucky. Huge, 50+: For the newbies out there, a tar pit is a very deep ranked unit of inexpensive troops. The goal isn’t to kill the enemy but to get them stuck. No matter how many the unit kills, the unit keeps Steadfast. It doesn’t matter that the tar pit inflicts negligible damage because the unit stays put sticking the enemies in place either tying them up all game or tying them up until you are ready to engage said unit. I’ve avoided Skink tar pits because other armies can field tar pits for cheaper. I’ve since learned this was an erroneous conclusion. We may not have the best tar pit unit in Warhammer or even the fifth best tar pit, but a tar pit is still a tar pit. I did an army swap with a friend who collects dwarves. He proves he can use my LM better than I can use his Dwarves. He managed to school me with my own Lizards tying up my elite Hammers and a flanking force of miners pretty much all game with 80ish Skinks. Steadfast in range of the Slann BSB, I couldn’t dislodge them no matter how hard I tried. While my two units were tied up, he took out the rest of my army. A skink tar pit will work if you have a coherent plan as my friend did, but if you just decide to tar pit something randomly, the skinks points will probably go to waste. Most skink units of this size will stretch farther than your typical deployment zone if arranged five wide. Thus a musician is good for a first turn swift reform, unless you are planning on the skinks staying put, then a regular reform will suffice. The champion and standard bearer add relatively little to a tar pit, but I believe for thematic purposes if not tactical purposes, very large units deserve full command. The Achilles heel of enormous tar pits is spells like Dwellers which affect every single model in a unit whether it’s 10 or 150, so ration your dispel dice carefully when fielding HUGE blocks and facing a foe with Metal, Life, or one of the army book lores with a spell that says “every model in the enemy unit”. Skroxigor Cohorts
Kroxigor are cheaper and hit harder than they used to be. With the leadership reduction Skinks received in the the 8th book, having a Kroxigor provide Ld7 is more important than it was before. Tetto’eko can join Skroxigor blocks and you probably should put him a Skroxigor block unless you plan on Tet hanging back for most/all of the battle. Also, Kroxigor aren’t required to all remain in the second rank giving us more flexibility with Skroxigor builds. Kroxigor do not negate Stomps for Skinks anymore meaning Skroxigor aren’t the perfect monster hunters they used to be. SPAWNING OF BOB SAID: As unpleasant as that is, what’s worse is that Kroxigor can now be singled out by the enemy. If you are fighting a monster or elite, the Kroxigor in your units can be taken out before their Always Strike Last attacks kick in. The exception is Dwarfs. Since Dwarfs rely so heavily on great weapons themselves, Skroxigor remain as potent as ever.I believe the net effect of the new book’s changes to Skroxigor is that small units are just as useful as before and very large units are more useful, but medium and large sized Skroxigor units are suddenly far less useful. Minimalist, 1 Kroxigor, 10-15 Skinks: The minimalist Skroxigor block. I’ve started incorporating 11 Skink, 1 Kroxigor blocks into my lists (11 Skinks give them three full ranks). I pretend I’m a scaly Empire player and play them like a detachment for a Saurus block. First while the Saurus marches 8 inches, the Skroxigor buddy walks six and throws javelins at something (if they aren’t in range they can march instead). You probably won’t kill much but you want the Skrox to hang back so they don’t get charged in lieu of the Saurus, so they might as well throw poisonous shots while they wait. Then, when the Saurus charge into combat or are charged themselves, the Skroxigor hit the flank providing positive combat resolution to the Saurus. As an added plus, your Saurus now benefit from having a Fear causing unit on their side. Since you will be seeking to fight alongside a tougher block (that likely has a Standard already), you probably don’t need to mess with any command crew for a unit this size. A Musician is probably the first thing you want to consider in case this little unit gets over its head and breaks. You do NOT want this little faux detachment to fight by itself. The only possible exception is if you are fighting to keep a WEAK mobile unit from causing trouble such as a single great eagle, hopefully you can soften them up with javelins before engaging. More Skinks?: A unit with a single Kroxigor can have more than 15 Skinks of course but I believe you face diminishing returns at this level. The rationale behind this is that it’s not a Skroxigor unit with extra skinks, rather it’s a Skink block that happens to have a Kroxigor in it. The Kroxigor confers the Skink block but with a single Kroxigor providing Ld 7, Fear and a little extra hitting power. That’s a valid choice, but I’m still going to explain why I am not endorsing it. First, giving the way BS shooting is randomized between Skinks and Kroxigor (not to mention line based attacks like cannon balls), the Kroxigor would die relatively easy. Second, a large skink block is usually meant to serve a purpose OTHER than killing enemies so the extra hitting power is an inefficient use of points. Third, you want to keep your larger skink blocks near the general whenever possible so the Kroxigor’s Ld7 is unlikely to come into play. Small, 2 Kroxigor, 16-23 Skinks: This unit is bigger, but it’s still not that big. You can be a LITTLE bolder with a block this size though you should aim to have this unit act primarily as support to another unit rather than fighting its own battle. This unit is capable of laying the smack down on things smaller than them, but against something the same size, you will probably lose combat, you’ll run out of skinks and the unit will break. This is a decent option for attacking small units of monstrous infantry. A block of three or four Monstrous infantry will struggle to kill your Kroxigor before they get to strike and an opponent who tries this ploy will likely be losing out on CR by not targeting Skinks. You still need to think of this as a flanking unit, not a stand alone unit. A unit this size is more likely to fight by itself so a full command may be useful in case of that contingency. The champion is probably the least useful upgrade because if you are fighting an enemy blender with this block alone, chances are you are going to lose this combat badly regardless of what you do. More Skinks?: More than the minimum Skinks is a good idea for two Kroxigor Skrox units. A few extra ranks to maintain your steadfast and deny enemy Steadfast. This will help your Kroxigors stay in a position to lay some smack down round after round. Don’t go too crazy. A two Kroxigor/gazillion Skink unit turns into an inefficient multi-tasking tar pit. Once you start thinking of Horde and near-Horde formations you probably want to add more Kroxigor. This is the only sized Skroxigor Cohort where I’d even consider springing the extra points for poisoned melee attacks. A smaller unit will probably die before poisoning anything and a larger unit would become prohibitively expensive. I certainly wouldn’t add more Skinks than the minimum to field two Kroxigor if I chose this unorthodox route. Medium Sized, 3 Kroxigor, 24-31 Skinks: Resist the temptation to go Horde, the extra attacks from the skinks will not make up for the liability of the increased frontage. If you must protect your Kroxigor’s flanks, go eight wide, otherwise you are probably better off with the minimum six wide. A six model wide three Kroxigor block is vulnerable on the flanks, but face the facts. If this unit is hit in the flank, you are probably going to lose the unit regardless. Three Kroxigors with a swarm of skinks certainly look badass. Know their limitations though. You should still seek to use a block this size as a supporting unit and not have it fight on its lonesome unless the target is pretty puny or your hand is otherwise forced. A medium sized Kroxigor unit IS big enough to get away with being the frontal assault unit while another unit is the flanker however (or both units can hit the front of a horde or other large unit). Because the 3 Kroxigor block is showing a little greater independence than the 2 Kroxigor variety, at 3+ Kroxigors you have little reason to not take full command crews. Unfortunately this block has become somewhat nerfed in the new book. An enemy unit strong enough to warrant using a Skroxigor block this size to fight is probably also strong enough to take out your Kroxigor before they can strike if they target their attacks appropriately. This used to be my go-to unit for fighting lone monsters. Now I think most monsters would defeat a 3 Kroxigor mixed cohort fairly easily. More Skinks?: A few extra skinks won’t hurt as a supporting unit. If you want to use a 3 Kroxigor block as standalone unit, you are going to need LOTS of extra Skinks. In the long haul a Skroxigor block will win out over most things on a point for point basis giving up 5 point skinks and inflicting 10 or so points per Kroxigor hit (depending on what you are fighting), but most rounds you will lose CR even if you win on points. In a one-on-one fight, 3 Kroxigor blocks need to keep Steadfast or their odds of losing and breaking are pretty good. Trios of Kroxigors need a strong buffer of Skinks to stay healthy. With the new book I would not try a three Kroxigor block with extra Skinks unless I was fighting a human or elf army. This unit should be a good knight killer. After the enemy has used up their charge round (or if you denied them the charge), the knights won’t be hitting hard enough to be able to effectively single out and destroy your Kroxigor. Then you can sit back let the combination of S7 hits and Static CR do it’s thing. Large Sized, 4 or 5 Kroxigors, 32 or 40 Skinks: Finally a skink cohort has enough heavy hitting power to be a main infantry block (at least in theory). A Kroxigor block this size should probably be fielded in horde formation. That’s a lot of points in one unit, so make sure whatever target you are pointing your mega block is one that needs that many S7 hits to take it down. You shouldn’t use a sledge hammer to tap in a nail. Since you are investing that many points into Kroxigor, you might as well take full command, even the Brave can come in handy to buy you a one-turn distraction from a nasty enemy character. Perhaps even a cheap Skink Chief so this unit doesn’t go all Predatory Fighter on you and chases an opponent somewhere you don’t want this über unit to go. With the new book you have to be very careful about fighting an enemy that is capable of bringing down Kroxigor from the front rank. You should probably make this unit priority one to receive helpful buffs or hexes. Especially if this block is fighting Monsters. If the Kroxigor are cut out this block, what you have left is a giant point sink. More Skinks?: Yeeeessss!!! Chances are if an enemy is tough enough to warrant 12-15 S7 hits, said enemy will have the necessary might to chop down skinks like wheat. Thus, you will still lose CR even as you are winning on a point-for-point basis. You spent well over 200 points on Kroxigor alone for this block, protect your investment by making sure the skink buffer is very big. Skink buffers will help protect your unit against hordes and cavalry but against elites and monsters they’ll just target the Kroxigor and your Skinks will do little. You need WS or Toughness boosting buffs or Strength and WS sapping hexes in that case. 6+ Kroxigors, Skroxigor Deathstars: Since we can now put Kroxigor into the third rank, this is suddenly viable where once it was just unwieldy and foolish to field a Skroxigor block this size. I’m making two assumptions, first I’m assuming this unit will be deployed in horde formation. Second I am assuming you are deploying your Kroxigor in two ranks, not one really long unwieldy rank or with a third redundant rank. You get your entire allotment of three Kroxigor attacks each with this set up. There are enough Kroxigor now that attacking them individually will not severely blunt this unit’s offensive power. You can pretty much take on anything with this unit. My suggestion is to point this unit on whatever the strongest thing on the other side is and go nuts with buffs and hexes just to be sure. You should have n+10 Skinks in your unit, where n the number of Skinks you think is adequate for what you expect to be fighting. This is not a stupid build, but it is an unorthodox build. You should still ask yourself. “Would I do better with a Deathstar made up of Kroxigor or Saurus instead?” If filling your Core’s required 25% and staying under your 50% Special ceiling are not really concerns, then the answer to the question is probably yes. When do you want to field a Skroxigor Deathstar? When you are fielding a Monster Mash or Fast Attack army build. Saurus Warriors do not have the movement rate to keep up with your dinos. Skirmishers do not hit hard enough to justify taking more than two or three units of them. Thus Skroxigor are the only viable option you have to fill up your Core requirement in these army builds. Since you army is based around hitting your opponent really hard all at once, your Skroxigor should probably fit the theme. In theory you could use smaller Skroxigors as flankers to support your dinosaurs, but it’s better to use your dinosaurs to provide flank support for your Skroxigor since they have smaller footprints. Skink Skirmishers – 7pts per modelWhile the profile might be identical to the above unit and many of the same issues still apply, Skink Skirmishers are an entirely different entity to Skink Cohorts altogether. While other armies couldn’t care less for the fortunes of Skink Cohorts, anyone with even a basic grasp of the importance of the movement phase in Warhammer Fantasy can tell you they were waiting with baited breath for any changes to these and the Special Chameleon Skinks. There is almost no competitive army in the game that can get away without chaff of some kind and Skink Skirmishers may as well be the bees' knees in this regard, being a Core chaff unit that possesses almost all the special rules and equipment you could possibly hope for. If your opponent hasn't faced against them yet, then be sure not to warn them as these (and particularly Chameleon Skinks) will put the fear of Sotek into any war machine crews or monsters you face. The profile is about as unimpressive as it could be for a unit of its cost per model, but when you remember that these are Ballistic Skill 3 Skirmishers that are Movement 6, the only actual stats you care for stand high and strong. Just forget about combat; Weapon Skill 2 and Toughness 2 with virtually no armour means they should never get into a melee, no matter how you buff them - but then, why would you waste spells on a cheap Skirmisher unit aside from raising their Ballistic Skill with Hand of Glory? The reason these are so good is that they are Movement 6 and can march and shoot with their Poisoned ranged weapons; for these kinds of units, the fragility and combat prowess are entirely unimportant. Once ten of these get into range of your typical three-wound war machine, they will pretty much make their points back; that they can march 12" and still shoot means they have all they need to be a constant thorn in your opponents' side. If you stick with blowpipes, a unit of ten will fire twenty Poisoned shots from 12" away. If they move and are in short range - or don't move and are at long range - they will need 6s to hit, but each 6 wounds automatically as it is Poisoned. This means that your basic unit of ten will average three Poisoned hits, equalling a dead war machine if it is your typical kind with just three wounds. If you fire against a monster with weak armour saves such as a Tomb Kings Khemrian Warsphinx, you are likely to take off two wounds at a time per shooting attack. For a unit that is so ungodly cheap, they absolutely devastate war machines and monsters, while being your usual mobile chaff unit that fits perfectly because it is a Core choice. As for the choice of blowpipes versus a lustrian javelin and shield, the former gives you much more shooting flexability as if the wielders move and are at long range, they will need to roll 7’s to hit if they double tap (shoot twice), thus negating the benefits of poison. But that’s ok as multiple shots is a choice, so just choose to shoot a single shot in those instances. The javelins are quick to fire, so don’t suffer from moving and shooting, so will always normally always hit on 6’s at worst and the shields then gove the Skinks a 5+ armour save - and a 6+ parry save in combat - as well as being able to Stand and Shoot regardless of enemy proximity. As the javelins share their Strength with that of the Skinks, you can buff them with Wyssans' Wildform, though using it on Skirmishers that rarely hit may as well be a waste of time. It could be argued that the slight boost to defensive capabilities aren't really worth it when giving up the extra shooting abilities the blowpipes confer. Ultimately both are viable choices and it is down to the general which they prefer. They are great redirectors and you will likely have enough of them to utilise the double flee mechanics. They are great for using as bunkers. All in all, if playing a competitive game, you will field at least 2 units of 10 skink skirmishers. Saurus Warriors - 10pts per model These troops are notable because they some of few in the game that are natively Strength and Toughness 4; truly, these are the defining features of their profile and solidify their spot as a rugged combat block. However, these are in no way the equivalent of Chaos Warriors and anyone that tells you otherwise is kidding themselves. First off, Weapon Skill 3 is average for any unit and below average for a dedicated combat unit, and hitting most foes on a 4+ immediately means that on average, only 1 of their 2 base attacks will hit home each turn. Predatory Fighter does give them a small boost but the reality is that it will usually only lead to a few extra hits even with a sizable unit. If you and your opponent play that Predatory Fighter works with supporting attacks (though from a a purely rules-as-written interpretation it doesn’t), then it may generate a few more and if you play this way, then spears become a more viable choice. What absolutely kills this unit is their Initiative 1 and the lack of ability to take strength boosting upgrades such as great weapons, leaving them at a decent but hardly special Strength 4. Being Initiative 1 means that any single Pit of Shades or Purple Sun of Xereus will kill 5/6 of a unit; if a template somehow hits every model in a unit (possible with the large blast marker) from a regiment of 40 Saurus, for example, then on average roughly thirty-four or thirty-three will be slain outright. This doesn't even begin to factor in that almost all combat units will not only strike before them but any unit with Always Strikes First - even Zombies, for heaven's sake! - will benefit from the re-rolls provided by having equivalent or higher Initiative as well. It’s one of the reasons why you often find Basilidons with the solar engine near the unit. This monster can keep up with the unit and the solar engine gives them +1 to their initiative. It may not sound like much but it helps boost their survivability against many of the test or die spells (though admittedly it works better with Temple Guard). So this unit will take losses in combat before it can strike against almost any enemy, it is fairly mediocre in terms of damage output and it usually doesn't stack up very well to proper dedicated melee units. On top of that, unlike Skinks, they also share that average Movement 4 with most other infantry in the game, so are slower than almost everything else in the army. So what are Saurus actually good for, then? While Chaos Warriors with the Mark of either Nurgle or Tzeentch plus shields are pretty much the be-all end-all in terms of points-denying Core units, Saurus are significantly cheaper per model and are still quite difficult to shift. Each model is Toughness 4 with a 4+ armour save and 6+ parry save at just over ten points per model, making them among the tougher units in the game for the cost - at least before you factor in their Weapon Skill deficiency. That they are Leadership 8 with the Cold-Blooded special rule means they are incredibly unlikely to run away unless they are either subject to a Leadership-reduction spell or have actually managed to lose their Steadfast bonus. When you consider how difficult a sizable unit of Saurus Warriors is to shift - especially when provided Stubborn by either Gor-Rok or a character with the Crown of Command - losing their Steadfast bonus won't happen too often at all, and rolling 3D6 discarding the lowest dice on Leadership 8 gives them an incredibly small chance to run away. Of course, Saurus are a perfect recipient of augment spells, particularly from the Lore of Light, with Speed of Light being the best to boost their WS and Initiative to 10, though Birona’s timewarp is also good for them. Hand of Glory from High Magic will also solve the issue of their low Weapon Skill (and initiative with the boosted version) and help turn them into a very efficient combat unit. Even wyssans from the Lore of beasts, though not helping their hit ratio, will help both their defence and damage output. The reality is that Saurus just aren't that great in a meta about maximising damage output, to deal with all the rampant death-stars and monstrous cavalry going around, though they are a solid combat block built around its good survivability when weighed up against the points investment. They really need magical support to get the best of them but you will rarely regret taking them. For a broader Saurus Warrior tactica – see this post: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/1476/broad-saurus-warriors-tactica
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:09:29 GMT
Post 7 - SpecialJungle Swarms – 35pts per base
Swarm type units are always interesting if only because they are so far removed from the rest of the options an army list offers, not really classifying as a tarpit, considering they are Unstable and bleed combat resolution, but being a decently cheap Skirmisher unit. The idea is to use these as charge re-directors and blockers which they do well enough, though they don't offer the same mobility as a War Beast or Cavalry type units do. While I tend not to rate most swarm type units, as generally speaking each army book they feature in has better chaff units at a more reasonable price point, Jungle Swarms are interesting if only because of the very decent combat buff they provide to friendly units in a melee. Compared to Skaven Rat-Swarms, for example, Jungle Swarms have a much lower Initiative value of one and move slightly slower to boot, but each of their own five attacks are Poisoned and they also provide any friendly unit fighting an enemy unit the Jungle Swarm itself is in base contact with, the Poisoned Attacks special rule. This means they are best suited to flank or rear charges in conjunction with a frontal charge from one of your primary combat blocks or monsters, giving them a very decent upgrade in the form of "free" Poisoned Attacks. This is amusing when used with Saurus-type warriors that possess the Predatory Fighter special rule; each 6 rolled to hit from the front rank will not only automatically wound but also provide an additional attack resolved immediately. When you consider the buffs to Predatory Fighter and the natural synergy Lizardmen units have with the Lore of Light, it isn't difficult to see how much of the army revolves around supporting your Saurus regiments by improving their generally decent or mediocre combat capabilities. Sadly, I do struggle to see how a Jungle Swarm can really be more useful than the equivalent points in Skink Skirmishers or Chameleon Skinks. This is because Movement 5 on a Swarm does mean they can keep up with Saurus and Skink units for the most part, but the fact that they are so insanely fragile even with the -1 penalty applied because of their Skirmisher classification means you need quite a bit of luck for them to reach a combat, let alone guarantee they are part of a combo-charge. Once in combat, the pathetic Initiative values of almost all Lizardmen units means that opponents can simply direct their attacks at the Weapon Skill 2, Toughness 2 Jungle Swarms and kill them outright before your friendly units can benefit from the Poisoned Attacks buff. Even with five wounds each, keeping these alive is not easy and especially so if they charge in the front; remember that these are not Fast Cavalry and thus will have trouble setting up a flank charge. If you want to ensure you get the Poisoned buff, you need to take at least two Jungle Swarms so that you have a good chance of applying their unique special rule, but by doing so they cost just as much as five Chameleon Skinks or ten Skink Skirmishers - or even just ten points shy of a Salamander! All of those units are far more useful generally than the Jungle Swarms, and that doesn't even account for the inherently random nature of Poisoned Attacks; if we assume maximum benefits by applying their handy benefit to a six-wide block of Temple Guard with multiple ranks, the averages dictate that only three Poisons will occur from their eighteen or nineteen attacks. It doesn't help that Lizardmen combat blocks tend to be mediocre outside of a heavily beneficial magic phase and Jungle Swarms aren't guaranteed to stop war machine crews in their tracks. Still, while this is a unit that tends to fail in practice on their own merits for the many reasons listed above, they are still very cheap for what they do and can fulfill some important roles in the army. Just because those other aforementioned Skink affiliated units are almost always more competitive doesn't mean the Jungle Swarms themselves are necessarily bad, just that they aren't as valuable for most lists. It is worth noting that you do need to take at least 2 jungle swarms to get the benefit of taking a Basilidon with the Arc of Sotek (not that you are likely to but I’m getting ahead of myself). Temple Guard – 14pts per model
If you want a rock solid and hard hitting infantry block from the Lizardmen book, that is dependable and reliable in almost any situation, Temple Guard are definitely what you want and need. Not only are they easily more points-efficient than Saurus Warriors but they also serve as the best bodyguards by far, for the expensive Slaan Mage Priests, even if the latter can prove calamitous for the former given the risks of miscasts and the attention they draw. Their improved profile over Saurus Warriors features Weapon Skill 4 and Initiative 2 on the stat front, meaning they strike simultaneously with Dwarfs and will importantly only be hitting on 5s against Weapon Skill 9 opponents (unless you count actual modifiers like the Mark of Nurgle) while needing 3s against weaker units. They also get the best equipment out of the two units by receiving light armour for a standard 4+ armour save, shields for a 3+ armour save against shooting, and halberds for Strength 5 attacks across the whole unit. Not only is this a very durable unit against both shooting and close combat attacks with their good Toughness 4, but they also bring the pain with two Strength 5 attacks each, that can benefit from Predatory Fighter. While Predatory Fighter will usually only result in a few extra hits, that they are resolved at Strength 5 and can be easily combined with the Razor Standard makes Temple Guard a combat block to be respected - or feared - by your opponent. While you probably won't bother with the magic weapon upgrade on a Temple Guard champion, having access to a 50pt magical standard is a very nice addition over Saurus Warriors that allows you to further specialize or improve the unit (frustratingly it is the only magic standard you can take, outside of the BSB, in the army). The aforementioned Razor Standard is very useful as it allows the Temple Guard to effectively engage well armoured units and at least force a stale-mate, while the Banner of Eternal Flame allows them to go head-to-head with Trolls or other Regenerating units and emerge victorious. Their unique relationship with Slaan Mage Priests affords them an important place in a standard Lizardmen list even if it is only to have a well protected Level 4 Wizard bunker. When combined with the Lore of Light or any of the other "buff" oriented spell lores from the Slaan, Temple Guard can quickly become one of the hardiest anvils in the game that still possesses a nasty melee presence. They are a solid combat unit on their own and compare reasonably well to elite melee units such as Chaos Warriors or Dark Elf Black Guard, but you will find that without augment spells their low Initiative and lack of ward saves will be exploited by things like Nurgle Daemons, Hellcannons, Frostheart Phoenixes and test-or-die spells such as the Pit of Shades or Purple Sun of Xereus. Initiative 2 is still terrible against spells that force Initiative tests and for fighting similarly hard hitting enemy units like Chaos Warriors with halberds of their own, or even White Lions of Chrace with their Strength 6 Initiative 5 attacks that fight in an extra rank due to Martial Prowess. However, I still rate Temple Guard as they combine the survivability and raw hitting power of Chaos Warriors at a low price, suffering from lower Weapon Skill and Initiative to balance this out but also making for a far hardier combat block because they are Leadership 8 with Cold-Blooded and can easily benefit from Stubborn. Cold One Riders – 30pts per model
While many commonly refer to these as mounted Saurus Warriors, the closer analogy would be to Temple Guard, given that Cold One Riders share the exact same stats as the latter unit; the hallmark Strength and Toughness 4 remain with two attacks each, though they are Weapon Skill 4 and Initiative 2 to fit their elite billing. Cold One Riders are among the few heavy cavalry choices in the game that can actually cut through ranked units semi-reliably as each individual model packs in a very impressive four Strength 4 attacks before upgrades, two of which are at Weapon Skill 4 and the other two are at Weapon Skill 3. Toughness 4 with a 2+ armour save makes them only slightly less survivable than the infamous Chaos Knights, while their weaker profile compared to the scions of Chaos justifies a significant ten-point reduction in cost per model compared to the Warriors of Chaos' Special choice. Predatory Fighter and Fear give them some slightly improved melee potential beyond their actual profiles, while they are permanently Immune to Psychology because of the Cold Ones' Stupidity. While having Stupidity would generally be seen as a massive downside for any unit not just for the potentially uncontrollable movement but also the inability to choose the flee charge reaction, Cold One Riders are Leadership 8 with Cold-Blooded so it means they are unlikely to fail a Stupidity test - even more so than Dark Elf Cold One Knights. Being Immune to Psychology does also provide the trade-off of being immune to Terror and Panic tests at the very least, while causing Fear gives the Cold One Riders a nice if situational close combat advantage against lesser foes. They are certainly a decent unit in that sense, but one must remember that Cold One Riders come stock only with hand weapons rather than the lances or other similar special melee weapons employed by their heavy cavalry competitors throughout Warhammer Fantasy. Four Strength 4 attacks with no access to a magical standard means that Cold One Riders are good only for killing very lightly armoured units - make no mistake, they chew through infantry very efficiently - but will struggle immensely once faced with other heavily armoured cavalry or, their name bearing dread, the many monstrous cavalry options running around in 8th Edition. Their attacks can at best impose a -1 armour save modifier, meaning 1+ or 2+ armoured models will easily hold them up almost indefinitely, especially considering that Cold One Riders have mediocre Weapon Skill and terrible Initiative values. Striking at Initiative 2 means that Cold One Riders will almost always suffer casualties in a combat before they themselves can attack which, considering heavy cavalry units of their kind only really work in a ten or fifteen strong unit at absolute maximum - and such regiments are insanely expensive before adding in mandatory characters - is a huge blow to their damage output. Considering they are Movement 7, enemies such as High Elf Dragon Princes or Brettonian Knights will always have a mobility advantage over them, with the former in particular laughing at their more expensive Lizardmen counter-parts as a pure shock-choice. The main benefit of the Cold One Cavalry is that a five-wide formation will result in twenty Strength 4 attacks coming from the front rank alone which is more than enough to chew through infantry while using the hardy Toughness 4, 2+ armour saves to survive return attacks. They can't really compete with opposing heavy cavalry - particularly Dark Elf Cold One Knights if they get the charge - and well armoured units in decent to large numbers, and they are priced very oddly compared to many of those other choices. The fact that they can purchase spears but at a ridiculous 4pts per model, ensures this is a unit best left as an infantry blender, something that can already be done almost or just as well by the equivalent points in Saurus Warriors. Being mobile, tough and decently hard hitting isn't enough in an edition where heavy cavalry are universally out-shined by monstrous cavalry, where Step Up and Steadfast eliminate the competitive usage of such units outside of character buses, unwieldy death-stars and expensive "chaff". Cold One Riders are at the very least a good chaff clearer with their huge wealth of attacks but their lower mobility compared to most other cavalry options restricts their uses in that regard, while their uses in a character bus are decidedly limited given their high cost. Scar Veterans and Old Bloods mounted on Cold Ones are often better foraging off by themselves where they don't have to spend a ridiculous amount of points on a bodyguard, or even placed within Saurus or Templeguard units. I feel they would be the perfect unit to have if they came stock with the spears or only paid at most a few points per model for them, but when you compare them to their Dark Elf equivalent that comes stock with Always Strikes First, Murderous Prowess, lances and numerous other benefits such as a higher Weapon Skill value, there is just little reason to really consider these in a highly competitive environment. Again, they aren't a bad option to take but they are quite pricey and with spears, definitely overcosted and suffer again from being in the amazingly competitive special slot, vying for space against other argueably better choices. Terradon Riders - 35pts per model
While these have been around long before the new plastic models were released, it nonetheless surprises me just how good this flying monstrous cavalry unit can be, even though it isn't intended to fight in melee against anything save for weak chaff units or war machines. Seriously, it is hard to find a monstrous cavalry unit as poor in combat as Terradons; there are a total of two attacks provided by the model, one at Strength 3 with Weapon Skill 2 and the other at Strength 4 with Weapon Skill 3 - the Strength 4 Stomp of course bears mentioning. The Skink rider is Initiative 4 while the Terradon has a lowly Initiative 2, and the unit has a mere two Toughness 3 wounds with a 5+ armour save on defence. Being Skirmishers due to the Flying Cavalry rules affords them some minor extra defence against shooting attacks that roll to hit, while causing Fear and having Forest Strider gives them very slight boosts to their melee prowess while safeguarding them from dangerous terrain in the most common terrain type for Warhammer Fantasy. Each Skink riding a Terradon bears a lustrian javelin meaning they can fire a single shot at Ballistic Skill 3 with the Poisoned and Quick to Fire special rules, making for a decent little shooting attack to complement the 10" normal and 20" march moves of the Terradons. That they are Leadership 5 with Cold-Blooded means they aren't going to stick around in a fight all that often but ideally these are more of an annoyance unit and shouldn't be considered a pivotal part of your army's success in terms of investment value. Once per game, Terradons can also drop rocks on a unit they move over provided the target unit is unengaged, and the Terradon Riders themselves are not fleeing or declared a charge. This is a nifty little ability as the target unit suffers D3 Strength 4 automatic hits per Terradon that flies over it which gives Lizardmen an awesome way to deal with enemy Skirmishers and Scouts - Wood Elf Waywatchers in particular are deathly afraid of this! With a 20" potential movement and the ability to freely pivot or reform combined with their decent shooting and melee capabilities as well as the Drop Rocks once per game, Terradons are a very valuable unit for any Lizardmen army that packs on the chaff. They function as chaff-destroyers, war machine hunters, character assassins and light harassers at a lower cost overall in average unit size (three of these just barely break the century mark in terms of points) compared to Chameleon Skinks, and their insane mobility means they can be a legitimate threat throughout any stage of the game. Competitive Lizardmen army lists usually feature at least one unit of three Terradon Riders simply because they are yet another fantastic chaff tool - even if used just as a re-director with Swiftstride - to add to the extensive arsenal fielded by the denizens of Lustria. It’s worth noting that you can upgrade the riders to have fireleech bolas for 1pt per model. This exchanges their Str 3 poisoned 12” javelins to a Str 4, 6” quick to fire flaming attack. Having flaming attacks is useful as is the additional strength but the range is quite lacklustre. Ripperdactyl Riders – 40pts per model
While Terradons have a clearly defined role in the Lizardmen army book and fulfill it very well, Ripperdactyls are a bit more confused about what exactly they are supposed to provide. To clarify my point, Ripperdactyls are still a great chaff unit by virtue of being flying monstrous cavalry at a low cost per model - packing in the all the benefits of being Flying Cavalry such as the ability to freely reform, Vanguard moves and the Skirmisher classification. They are only very slightly more expensive than Terradon Riders but pack in some very obvious advantages mostly revolving around a seriously improved close combat phase overall. They also feature slightly boosted survivability to boot which pairs up very well with the Skirmisher special rule by applying a -1 to hit penalty for ranged attacks directed against them. The Skink rider is mostly identical to that on a Terradon in terms of stats, though the hand weapon and lustrian javelin of a Terradon Rider is swapped for both a spear and a shield. This means a Ripperdactyl Rider has a combined armour save of 4+ which is quite nice for a Toughness 3, 2 Wound model, while the Skink itself provides a single Strength 4 attack on the charge resolved at Initiative 4, albeit still with that pitiful Weapon Skill 2. The Ripperdactyl itself has three attacks (excluding its stomp) once its Frenzy is accounted for, and each of these is Strength 4 with both the Armour Piercing and Killing Blow special rules. Weapon Skill 3 and Initiative 3 make them middling fighters but the threat of Killing Blow and a standard -2 armour save modifier from its three attacks make it a really nasty monstrous mount option - overall, a single Ripperdactyl Rider definitely provides some impressive damage output considering their low cost per model as a monstrous cavalry unit. That they are a flying unit with Vanguard, two Toughness 3 wounds with a 4+ armour save each and have an extra Strength 4 attack on the charge from the Skink rider make for a very impressive and efficient melee unit. There's just one potentially significant issue here, and that is Frenzy on a Cold-Blooded model with Leadership 5; this is a unit that will fail quite a few Frenzy tests and as good as the damage output for Ripperdactyls' is they simply cannot engage actual dedicated melee units on their own, at least not in a frontal charge. Their mediocre Weapon Skill and Initiative means that Elven and Chaos' basic Core units will strike before them and hit on 3s, wounding on 4s at the very least with the potential to force a lot of armour saves. If you consider that two Chaos Warriors of Nurgle armed with halberds are ever so slightly cheaper than a single Ripperdactyl, those two Chaos Warriors will average three hits, three wounds of which at least two are unsaved leading to a dead Ripperdactyl. Ranked units have the numbers to bog down and exploit the fragility of the Ripperdactyl Riders, while the low Initiative of the unit means charging an enemy heavy cavalry or equivalent unit can often be a bad idea even if those units don't get to use their lances or equivalent weapons in the first round of combat. Ripperdactyls' excel against Initiative 3 or lower cavalry units of the non-monstrous variety, while elite units with low Initiative values make for easy prey unless they are taken in sizable numbers. Ripperdactyls are a dedicated melee unit and definitely have the damage output to provide that against non-monstrous units, but they are fragile enough not to really endure against other proper combat units - Chaos Warriors, Sword Masters, Black Guard, Greatswords, Black Orcs and all other manner of elite units will easily chew through Ripperdactyl Rider units whether through superior numbers or their own considerable melee prowess. With three Killing Blow attacks per model it is obvious that Ripperdactyls are intended as character assassins and cavalry hunters, but being Frenzied with such a low Leadership value despite Cold-Blooded means they will often attempt to charge a unit you don't want them in combat with. That they must always pursue can be a hefty downside if your opponent knows how to Frenzy bait with chaff units, though there are tricks to solving this particular issue with the unit. For one, having the first turn and using the Vanguard movement means the Ripperdactyls are incapable of charging and are thus free to advance up the battlefield. Additionally, the ability to freely reform as much as they want during their movement phase has led many wily players to deploying Ripperdactyls facing backwards towards your own deployment zone, then spinning them around so that you can set up a favourable turn two charge. If you really want Ripperdactyls to destroy a given unit, their Toad Rage special rule is the key to doing so, increasing the Frenzy of the riders to D3+1 rather than the usual +1 attack against a single unit of your choice at the start of the game - all those Armour Piercing and Killing Blow attacks are enough to devastate nearly any heavy cavalry unit, certainly! This still doesn't mean you should put a marker on a ranked infantry unit even though you can easily set up a rear charge with the unit as Ripperdactyl's can quickly become bogged down and lack the fragility to properly hold up most units for an extended combat. At the very least, however, you can use Ripperdactyls as your guaranteed war machine destroyers with their insane mobility and impressive combat profile, then switch them to targeting sizable ranged units such as Dwarf Quarreler regiments or the equivalents from other army books where Ripperdactyls' can tear apart several models a turn in quick succession. Where Terradons are more of a generalist choice because they can be useful in almost any phase of the game, the combat restriction of Ripperdactyl's means they are especially vulnerable against Elves, though their improved armour save does help to compensate for this against the strong ranged presence such armies typically possess. It’s worth noting that taking multiple units allows you to put down multiple toad markers and the tokens aren’t uniue to the unit that laid them, meaning that any unit of ripperdactyls with gain the boosted frenzy if in combat with a unit with a marker. Frenzy also gives them immune to psychology, so they are unable to flee if charged by something they don’t want to fight. Bastiladon – 150pts
If you are looking for a monster that is good in close combat through a mixture of regular attacks and a Thunderstomp as a bare minimum, look elsewhere; for those that want one of the few true "support" monsters in the game, the Bastiladon is the perfect foil for your army list. The profile is about as unimpressive as it gets in terms of melee capabilities with a seemingly unprecedented base Strength 4 on the monster itself with a mere three attacks at Initiative 1 and Weapon Skill 3 to go with it. This means that even the creature's Thunderstomp is middling at best with it requiring a good bit of luck to damage even Elven or similar Toughness 3 units that are typically fodder for such attacks. It also appears to be lacking in terms of survivability as well with four Toughness 5 wounds, though its natural 2+ armour save ensures that it is almost entirely immune to small arms fire with only the usual war machines really threatening it in the shooting phase. On that note, be wary of bolt throwers; with only four wounds and no armour saves allowed from a bolt throwers' standard shot, Bastiladons at Toughness 5 make easy prey for those most inexpensive of war machines. Initiative 1 and Always Strikes Last makes it very susceptible to the spells testing off of Initiative, while almost any opponent will strike before them - it attacks simultaneously with most great weapon wielders and is not built to survive their strikes whatsoever. The four Skink crew (as opposed to a Stegadon's five) are treated very similarly to the crew of a Stegadon, being immune to damage and using their lustrian javelins and single Strength 3 attacks per model to provide a little boost to a Bastiladon's overall damage output. Cold-Blooded and Leadership 6 are decent enough for sticking around, but a Bastiladon lacks both Stubborn and Immune to Psychology meaning it is very susceptible to breaking from combat or failing a Panic test. It also has an incredibly below average Movement 4 which means it can at best keep up with your Saurus infantry choices, though this solidifies its place as a support choice rather than a potential outlier or aggressive unit option. That it ignores combat resolution bonuses for being charged in the flank or rear, plus treating one of its three attacks as being Strength 10 with a +1 to hit bonus against opponents in its' rear arc are nice extras but ultimately don't change the fact that this is, frankly, a terrible melee monster compared to all of the other options in the book. This is where its support abilities come into play and actually stamp out a nice little niche in the Special slot, making up for its terrible damage potential. With one of two configurations, the Ark of Sotek and the Solar Engine, a Bastiladon can be freely tailored to fit your army list based on what other unit choices you field. Arc of Sotek
The Ark of Sotek provides the Bastiladon with a negligible shooting attack and the ability to add free Jungle Swarms to an already established unit. This is by far the weaker option of the two. Perhaps worth taking if you are using Tehenhauin with Jungle Swarms. “Free” Jungle SwarmsUnfortunately this is a hard ability to use effectively. I’ve tried keeping Swarms near my Bastiladon for much of the game, and I’ve seen other LM players try this. It is not a winning strategy. Most will agree that Jungle Swarms are a bottom tier unit choice for our army, so free Swarms aren’t that exciting. Granted, generally in life if something is free and has any use at all I'll take as many as I can get my hands on. Unfortunately, Ark of Sotek generated Swarms have an invisible cost. To get the most out of Swarms, you need to be ready to be flexible. Based on your enemy’s army and the emerging deployment, you need to be ready to use your Swarms to redirect the enemy, stall the enemy (preferably in a river or marsh), or use your Swarms to buff friendly attacks (preferably Sauri since Skinks can get Poison elsewhere and the bigger stuff doesn’t need poison to wound). It is very hard to be flexible with your Swarm usage while keeping them near your Bastiladon(s) If you decided to keep an Ark of Sotek near your Jungle Swarm unit(s) then you have committed yourself to using your Swarms as a buff unit. In order for this to work, you need to keep your Bastiladon near your Swarms and your Swarms near at least one block of friendly infantry AND you need to have a potent (but not too potent) enemy conveniently in front of your trio of synergy. That’s very hard to do because there are so many things that can go wrong. Terrain pieces or enemy counter deployment will thwart this combo fairly easily. You may decide during deployment that you feel you must deploy LM unit X to counter Enemy unit Y somewhere you wanted to place your Swarms or Bastiladon. Or you might just have trouble rolling 4+ when you really need it. Cannons or stone throwers make things worse, a Bastiladon that’s hanging back to generate free Swarms (or shoot the Beam of Chotec but that’s beside the point) is a secondary threat to your enemy. That means rather than agonizing about which giant monster to shoot first, your opponent will be targeting their artillery at your frontline dinosaurs, presumably Stegadons and Carnosaurs but also possibly including things like Salamanders and Saurus Cowboys. Once your front line dinosaurs are dead (or engaged in close combat), the cannons that would ordinarily have nothing decent to shoot at can then turn their attention to your Bastiladons in your backfield. To add insult to injury, they can easily shoot through your Jungle Swarms with no penalty. Conclusion: If you can get an Ark of Sotek near your Jungle Swarms (or your Swarms near your Ark), by all means do so. A free Swarm base here or there is nice when you can get it, but it’s not worth tying down a portion of your battle line to set it up. It’s not even worth delaying your Bastiladon’s entry into close combat. In my opinion, while an Ark of Sotek makes Swarms a slightly more viable choice, an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon does not obligate you to take Jungle Swarms and it should certainly not obligate you to limit your swarms deployment and movement options. Shooting Attack
This is the money move of the Ark of Sotek Bastiladon though it is limited by very short range and a low damage output. It requires no power dice and is always “on,” even when the Bastiladon is engaged in close combat. T4+ troops rarely care about these attacks. Armor Save 4+ or better troops rarely care about these attacks. The snakes can do a fair bit of damage against T3 enemies with relatively weak (or nonexistent) saves. Given that most of the Bastiladon regular attacks are at Strength 4, these are exactly the sort of units that a Bastiladon should be charging anyway. The Bastiladon has a 2+ armor save, so most soft skinned enemies will have trouble wounding the beast. Terror is just gravy. The Bastiladon has no flanks or rear so you can get a lot of snake shooting in if you can get a Bastiladon surrounded by MSU low Strength enemies. Hard to do, but not impossible. The Achilles heel of all Bastiladons of either build is their low Leadership score sans Stubborn, so you want to keep your general and BSB nearby if you plan to let your Bastiladon get double or triple teamed. Even without giving away a bonus for flanks, a surrounded Bastiladon is likely to have a lot of static CR against it. A Bastiladon should be able to grind through a tarpit better than most things we have. Since you aren’t going to break the steadfast unit, the fact that the snake shooting casualties don’t contribute to close combat is a non-issue. Because the Bastiladon is so tough and well-armored, you will probably win most of your combats despite the enemy static CR, so you don’t need an anti-tarpit Bastiladon to be near your General and/or BSB. You still want them there though, but you can live without it. If you are fighting an elite unit with poor saves (such as Witch Elves) rather than a pure tarpit then your Bastiladon should be ideally attacking the unit in tandem with a block of friendly infantry. The friendly ranks and banner should keep your Bastiladon from being routed with static CR. You can get by without a supporting unit if the general and BSB are nearby. It’s not a good idea to fight enemy great weapon troops with a Bastiladon, but if said great weapon troops are poorly armored and relatively low Toughness, it’s not a suicidal move to engage them with your Ark of Sotek Bastiladon if he or she has infantry support. If your melees are occurring near each other, a Bastiladon can hit multiple units with snake shooting. This is good to set up if you can arrange it, but do not send your Bastiladon into a subpar combat match up just for a bit of extra snake shooting. Better to get one unit to throw snakes out that can’t hurt you then throwing snakes at three units where two of them can gut your dinosaur. Conclusion: In terms of infantry mashing, the Ark of Sotek Bastiladon is better than the Solardon. The difference between “negligibly better” and “considerably better” depends on the target. For the Ark of Sotek Bastiladons, large numbers of poorly armored low Toughness fodder enemies are better than small numbers of tough elite enemies, especially if said elite enemies have great weapons. Essentially think of them as a monstrous tarpit grinder. Point-for-point, an Ark of Sotek Bastiladon will arguably handle an enemy tarpit better than a Stegadon or Ancient Stegadon in most cases, particularly if said tarpit is trying to set up a supporting flank attack (given that Bastiladons do not provide flanking bonuses to the enemy). Mostly Bastiladons are cheap and don't have many front-loaded offensive bonuses like Stegadons so if the Bastiladon takes along time to chew through the enemy, no biggie. Solar Engine
The real winner here is the Solar Engine (sometimes called a Solardon), providing all Cold-Blooded units within 6" a +1 bonus to their Initiative values while also packing a very nasty innate bound spell. That the Initiative buff affects all Cold-Blooded units means that every single choice in the army book gets the benefit, from Carnosaurs to Saurus Warriors, and makes it the perfect support choice to push up alongside a combat-centric Lizardmen army list. The innate bound spell has a tiny power level of three, a nice range of 24" and inflicts a random number of automatic flaming hits based on a separate D6 roll. While rolling a '1' does barely anything, rolling a '2-3' provides D6 Strength 4 hits, which is perfect for clearing out small chaff units or assassinating lone characters, while the roll of a '4-5' leads to 2D6 Strength 5 hits, which can cause some serious damage even to full on combat blocks. A roll of ‘6’ casues a whopping 2D6 Strength 6 hits and in addition, the target suffers a -1 penalty to their WS and BS until the start of the Basilidons next magic phase. That is some very potent damage and a nasty debuff. Worth noting, is that, it is an Innate bound spell, so you can happily 6 dice cast it, looking for irresistable force, to prevent dispelling without fear of losing the spell. While a Bastiladon with an Ark of Sotek is a middling choice at best that only really suits a themed list featuring multiple units of Jungle Swarms, a Bastiladon with a Solar Engine is easily the best support element for combat blocks in a Lizardmen list and also features one of the nastier innate bound spells around. It is very tough for the most part and its melee damage output is still decent by virtue of being a monster, combining to make it a hugely valuable and effective unit - this is a great addition to the Lizardmen army book indeed! Kroxigor – 50pts per model
While they rarely make an appearance in Core due to the changes to their rules in the Skink Cohort, Kroxigor can still be a useful hammer when taken on their own individual merits - who needs Skink padding that arbitrarily increases the cost of the truly valuable part of the regiment, the Kroxigor themselves? Don't ever mistake these as larger Saurus equivalents as that couldn't be further from the truth; where Saurus are a natural anvil with their good survivability and medium cost per model, Kroxigor are very expensive but absolutely hit hard and justify the "tonne of bricks" metaphor. Each Kroxigor has a profile very reminiscent of a standard Ogre, with three Toughness 4 wounds on defence, a middling Weapon Skill 3, a pitiful Initiative 1 and three attacks each at Strength 5. They are Leadership 7 with Cold-Blooded which means they aren't going to be failing Panic or Break tests in a hurry, while having a 4+ Scaly Skin armour save makes them more survivable than most Ogre infantry. Base Strength 5 also contributes to their overall damage output against lighter targets with the Stomp, but the key here is that each Kroxigor natively wields a great weapon. For not much more than an Ogre Irongut, Kroxigor provide three Strength 7 attacks per model at Weapon Skill 3, are tougher to put down and harder to control via Leadership tests and penalties, though as a result they are more expensive and do not provide Impact Hits whatsoever. Predatory Fighter gives Kroxigor a slight boost to their damage output but ultimately is too random to really be relied upon to get them out of a bad engagement. They also get Aquatic, like their skink brethren but is a bit too situational to be considered a truly important aspect of the unit. They actually compare quite well to Ogre Ironguts when you weigh up the various traits of either unit, though obviously that Ironguts are Core whereas Kroxigor are Special. In any case, Kroxigor are undoubtedly the hardest hitting dedicated melee unit in the Lizardmen army book with a unit of three providing nine Strength 7 Always Strikes Last attacks and three Strength 5 Stomp attacks that, also have Always Strikes Last. Not that it matters too much as with Initiative 1, they are more than likely going last anyway. If you need a monstrous type unit or other heavily armoured force dealt with, a flank charge from three or more Kroxigor should do the trick and do so with aplomb. They will statistically kill a Carnosaur or War Hydra equivalent (meaning Toughness 5 and five wounds with a 3+ or worse armour save) on the charge, provided at least three Kroxigor get to strike, while even 1+ armoured monstrous cavalry will have to be extremely careful around these brutish Lizardmen warriors. Unfortunately, there are some pretty hefty issues to remember here; being Initiative 1 means that not only will Pit of Shades and other such spells annihilate them in an instant, but they also cannot afford to perform a frontal charge against other dedicated melee units that have the tools to easily deal with nine or more Toughness 4, 4+ armoured wounds. With the width of the Kroxigor equaling that of six infantry models on the standard 20mm base, which means maximising will allow eight such models from the front rank alone to attack the Kroxigor, a sizable unit of anything from White Lions to Chaos Warriors will scythe through Kroxigor with incredible ease. As an example, a six-wide and five-deep formation of White Lions (the equivalent in points of six Kroxigor) will on average kill three Kroxigor per round of combat when we account for Martial Prowess, hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s with no save allowed for the Kroxigor (Strength 6). Even though the Kroxigor should average out to around seven or eight kills in return, the White Lions - and other infantry units by extension - have the rank bonuses and numbers to bog down the Kroxigor, if not kill them outright in the next round of combat (which is what will happen in the case of the White Lions). The equation is similarly weighted against the Kroxigor when you consider fifteen Chaos Warriors of Nurgle armed with halberds, deployed six-wide and three-deep, are less expensive than six Kroxigor but will deal an average of eight unsaved wounds to the Kroxigor, killing two and severely wounding a third. The four remaining Kroxigor need 5s to hit the Chaos Warriors in turn with their 12 attacks, leading to only 4 hits and 4 casualties inflicted for a crushing victory in favour of the Chaos Warriors. Whereas Ironguts can have character support, come from Core and thus fill up your mandatory points, a lower cost per model and Impact Hits to help win combats, Kroxigor are a very expensive and elite unit that has no available character models on equivalent base sizes able to join them - at least, not characters that would work well alongside Kroxigor. If we assume that you should use at least six Kroxigor in a unit deployed three wide and two deep to make the most of their attacks and ensure at least a few of them reach combat after all shooting and magic is accounted for, that is a 300pt unit that has some severe weaknesses and can just as easily be held up by a single Ethereal model (like a Spirit Host) as any of the cheaper Lizardmen monsters. They function as the hunters of anything monstrous or heavily armoured, in an army book populated by Stegadons with the Sharpened Horns upgrade that fulfill the same role via Impact Hits rather than their regular close combat attacks. With poor actual stats for hitting and never going before any opponent, Kroxigor are quite limited in terms of what they can actually perform, assuming your opponent has the counters available to stop them. As I mentioned earlier, however, they are still at the very least points efficient compared to other similar monstrous infantry units from other army books. Ushabti wish they could mimic the effectiveness of Kroxigor and the fact that their preferred targets tend to struggle against other monstrous-type units and themselves have low Weapon Skill or Initiative values means Kroxigor are still good in their intended role. Just be aware that Kroxigor aren't designed to be a full front-line combat unit despite how expensive they are, as they can be easily bogged down or outright slaughtered by the great weapon wielding Elven elites or halberd-armed Chaos Warriors. Even humble Empire Halberdiers will take chunks out of them. They need to be used on the flank where their good Movement 6 allows them to get flank or even (unlikely) rear charges off, while threatening your opponents war machines and skirmishers or chaff units. When you consider that four of these are the rough equivalent of three Dragon Ogres equipped with great weapons and trade one point of both Movement and Weapon Skill plus a situational ability for another, the Kroxigor get Predatory Fighter and an extra three attacks thrown into the mix which solidifies their crazy hitting power. I rate these as competitive over Dragon Ogres simply because Lizardmen can have issues dealing with well armoured units outside of Oldblood or Scar Veteran "cowboys" and Stegadons, whereas Warriors of Chaos have Hellcannons, Gorebeast Chariots, Chaos Trolls, Chimeras, Chaos Ogres and Chaos Knight with lances all particularly suited to that role. I rate Kroxigor slightly above Dragon Ogres as a unit, but in the context of their own army book I find they are a lot closer to being necessary and thus competitive because of the reduced options for dealing with those heavily armoured enemies. I don't give them a competitive rating lightly, mind, as I do feel the "cowboys" and Stegadons are far more efficient and have such a small footprint to fulfill numerous other roles and find their preferred charge with greater ease. However, the extra attacks and Predatory Fighter at similar points costs to Dragon Ogres gives Kroxigor the edge in that particular comparison, especially with Lizardmen having far greater access to useful augment spells to buff them. With WS3 being their true Achilles heel. Any spell to give bonuses to hit or boosted WS is good (or hexes that hit the enemy in those traits). Boosting Kroxigor Strength is redundant. If you can’t buff/hex WS you want to either boost the Kroxigor’s Toughness or hex the enemy’s Strength. Fortunately, the two most popular Slann builds work well with Kroxigor. Wandering Deliberations Slann (the one that gives access to all signature spells) have Miasma and Iceshard Blizzard to hex or penalize enemy WS. Earthblood can also heal a few Kroxigor wounds occasionally with the Lifebloom lore attribute if your Kroxigor are somewhat near your Temple Guard bunker. High Magic Slann have Hand of Glory to boost WS and Walk Between Worlds to try to set up an ideal Kroxigor matchup (or flee from a bad matchup). You also have the opportunity to swap in for the aforementioned useful signature spells. As for BRB lores, Shadow and Light synergize best with Kroxigor. Life isn’t too bad either. What size unit is best for them?
Minimum 3 Kroxigor: I don’t like this. Between enemy shooting and the fact that they are ASL, you are lucky if you can have two Kroxigor able to swing their axes on the first round of close combat. If you are fielding 3 Kroxigor, they better be surrounded by Skinks. 4-5 Kroxigor: I like this size. Rank bonuses will probably not matter, so I field them as 2x2 squares. That’s still all your attacks. If you are fighting crappy infantry, you’ll want to adjust to three wide for that extra Stomp, but generally a small frontage is best. This makes it a lot easier to one-two punch enemies with Saurus/Kroxigor combos. A fifth Kroxigor is probably unnecessary, but there are worse things to spend your points on. 6-8 Kroxigor: This gives you two full ranks of Monstrous Infantry. I’ve done okay with units of six, but points permitting, I like units of 7 or 8. This gives you a small crumple zone against shooting and close combat letting you fight at your full attacks even after taking a modest beating. 9-17 Kroxigor: I’ve played 9 Kroxigor a few times. I didn’t like it. I can’t imagine liking it better with 10, 11, or 12. Units in this range have a prohibitively expensive “crumple zone” for a unit deployed three wide. If you deploy wider, you are almost guaranteeing that your Kroxigor will get bogged down by infantry. You might actually beat infantry with a unit like this, but your points cost will be so much higher than the enemy it won’t feel like winning. I’d rather field two reasonably sized blocks of Kroxigor than one block this size. 18+ Kroxigor: I will admit that I haven’t tried this yet, but I can see the appeal. This allows you to field a full horde of Monstrous Infantry with a theoretical 55 attacks (plus a lot of PF attacks). Awfully expensive and unwieldy. If you have a floating Slann hiding behind them, you can theoretically steamroller any opposition with the right buffs, but this unit strikes me as a bit gimmicky. Tactically speaking, I’d rather field three reasonably sized blocks of Kroxigor than this. Multiple Units: I have yet to try three Kroxigor blocks. I have done two blocks a few times, but I have better luck with one block. If you want two blocks of Kroxigor I’d recommend 2x2 squares to keep the footprints small. When I field two blocks of 6-7 Kroxigor, the Kroxigor tend to compete for table space with my Saurus blocks and someone has to deploy behind someone else which does not let you project your strength very well. Skink Clouds are not my style, but I think multiple Kroxigor larger blocks would do well in a Skirmisher /Traditional Army hybrid. If all your Core is Skink Skirmishers, there are no Saurus Warriors to get in the way of your Kroxigor or visa versa. Still you need to be very good at redirection or your Kroxigor will get bogged down fighting hated infantry, and they won’t be able to call on Saurus reinforcements. For a less extreme way of accommodating multiple Kroxigor units, you can run your Slann solo. With no Temple Guard that’s one less block to get in the way (and more Special points to spend on additional Kroxigor). Kroxigor Ancients: You want them. Ten points is cheap for a Strength 7 PF attack. You don’t want to be fighting enemy infantry if you can help it, but at least having a reasonable chance of killing a character in an underdog challenge is a nice consolation prize to having a subpar matchup. Cowboy Buddies?: Lots of Orc and Goblin players put an Orc Big Boss on a Boar tacked on to the side of their Troll units for both more hitting power and the Ld. We could in theory do the same with Saurus Cowboys and Kroxigor, but I would not recommend it. Kroxigor are not subject to Stupidity so they don’t need the extra point of Ld all that bad (and the Cold One actually brings Stupidity). Due to non-compatible bases, your Cowboy can’t make way so a positioning error well cost you if he’s stuck out of combat. As much as Kroxigor hate light targets, they really hate ethereal enemies generating virtually zero static CR. A Cowboy buddy can provide magical attacks in this scenario. That would be the only time I would combine Kroxigor and Saurus characters in a big unit, but in most cases a solo Saurus character on a Cold One should be able to engage these nasty ethereals without a unit. One idea I came across in an unrelated thread is giving a Crown of Command to a Saurus Cowboy and sticking him with a Kroxigor unit, thus making the Kroxigor Stubborn. It also makes the Kroxigor subject to Stupidity so you want to make sure you keep your Slann nearby if you decide to try that unorthodox tactic. As a final note, they do cause fear. Very situational but remember to make opponents take the test as it will help with both their offence and defence if it is failed. Overall they are a unit with a specific role. They do that role very well but at quite a cost. It’s why I would likely use them in units of 4 when fielded. It keeps their cost down, reduces their threat and keeps their footprint small enough that they can get to where they are needed. Chameleon Skinks - 13pts per model
Billed as the "elite" Skink Skirmisher equivalent, Chameleon Skinks are far more of a specialist choice that are easily the best unit in the army book for hunting war machines, lone characters and other vulnerable backfield options employed by your enemies. They function much the same as Skink Skirmishers with blowpipes; they are terrible in combat but are Movement 6 Skirmishers that fire two Poisoned shots at 12" per model to compensate. Where Chameleon Skinks are improved is that enemies shooting at them not only suffer a -1 to hit penalty because the Skinks are Skirmishers, but they also suffer a second -1 to hit penalty because of their Chameleon special rule. This means that even Elf archers will be hitting the Chameleon Skinks on 5s at best (assuming they are Ballistic Skill 4) while any kind of soft cover or hard cover bonuses will see almost any ranged unit needing 6s and 4s (effectively '7s') to hit the Chameleon Skinks. For a chaff unit that is purpose built for ranged avoidance this is definitely a very nice defence to have, making up mostly for their pathetic Toughness 2 and 6+ armour save. Warmachine HuntersThe real reason you want these over Skink Skirmishers is that they have the ever useful Scout special rule, allowing them to deploy anywhere on the battlefield so long as that spot is 12" or more away from enemy units. Combine that with their two Poisoned shots each at Ballistic Skill 4 rather than Ballistic Skill 3, which means they can still poison a target when moving and at long range, their high Movement 6 and Skirmisher profile allowing them to also shoot when marching, Chameleon Skinks are far and away the primary answer to war machines for a Lizardmen army. Ten of these are priced similarly to most Dwarf and Empire war machines and will statistically kill a typical three-wound war machine in one round of shooting regardless of most typical to-hit modifiers. Not only do they make their points back in one shooting phase, but they have the speed and capability to harass and seriously pester your opponents' forces thereafter, hunting any other valuable but fragile (to Poison) targets they can find with their high Movement 6. If they fail to kill a warmachine at range, you can even charge the crew. Sure the skinks have low WS and toughness but sometimes you are better off charging the war machines despite this. If the war machine has hard cover, your probably are going to have better luck with CC than with shooting. It’s not just a matter of what will kill a particular war machine faster. If you wipe a war machine out in one round of close combat you can overrun into the next one if they are arranged in an artillery line (as is often the case). Whether you kill the war machine in CC or not, a war machine engaged in melee has to stop shooting at you while it’s in melee. Hunting Big Game Units
Large monsters with high toughness and weak or nonexistent saves are vulnerable to mass volleys of poisonous darts. This category includes but is not limited to Giants, Terrogheists, Mangler Squigs, and the occasional low save monstrous mount for a lord (such as Manticores). Sometimes you can kill these monsters with darts alone. Other times you just soften up them enough to make them much more killable when said monsters reach your mainline. Either way the Chamo Skinks inflict serious damage. Even better most giant monsters are not maneuverable enough to prevent a Chamo Skink from circling around them and firing on them again next round. Said monsters pretty much have to act like the Chamo Skinks aren’t there and make their best possible attempt to reach your Saurus blocks as quickly as possible before they succumb to the dart barrage. A different sort of “big game” target is lone character, while a large monster is likely to keep lumbering towards your main line, a lone character is likely to stay back in a little nest much like a war machine (perhaps even nestled amongst the war machines). Like a war machine, you can often stop a character from doing their nasty stuff by engaging it in melee. Lone characters are usually tougher fighters than war machine crews. Because of this, buffs on your skinks are even more important if you are going the CC route. If you go the shooting route and fail to kill the character, the risk is that the character will retaliate on the following turn, either by charging you, pulling out their special ability, or blasting the skinks with a spell. A third type of big game is elite infantry with low armor. This includes but is not limited to Dwarven Slayers, Savage Orcs, and High Elf Swordmasters. While the results are less dramatic than with the other “big game” targets, Chamo Skinks will usually pay for themselves whittling down these types of targets to a manageable size to let your Saurus or Skroxigor beat them. Being annoying
A group of Chamo Skinks can keep moving and shooting while staying well out of the charge arc of a big block of infantry (or most other unit types) and keep nickeling and diming the unit while avoiding its wrath. An experienced player will either entrap the unit boxing it with another unit or just ignore the little guys altogether, but sometimes this is the best option available for us to do with our Chamo Skinks. Even if the enemies entrap your Chamo Skinks, you can at least console yourself with the fact that they the units they are using to pincer your skinks probably cost a lot more than the skinks themselves and you’ve kept them away from the rest of your army. Regular skinks can run similar interference for fewer points, but Chamo Skinks can keep their ability to hit on 6s even when using multi-shot at long range, something regular Skinks cannot do. Also on average, Chamo Skinks will get into firing range at least one round before regular skinks will meaning that not only is their shooting better, but you get more of it. The same comments also apply to the Big Game Hunting targets. Skink Skirmishers can do it too, but Chamo Skinks do it better. March blocking also fits under this heading. March blocking is most viable as a strategy against low leadership armies, but it’s worth remembering even against high leadership armies. Once in a blue moon a High Elf unit will fail a Fear test. Likewise, once in a blue moon a High Elf unit will fail a march test too. Even more useful than march blocking is Vanguard blocking. @hooligan's trick works against any enemy with Vanguard units and be accomplished even if the enemy deploys his units too tight to allow Scouts in his backfield. HOOLIGAN SAID: A small unit of chamo skinks are awesome for messing with their first turn. Plant them exactly 12" from the front of his Wild Riders and he can't vanguard. He can charge if he gets turn 1 but your skinks have a good chance of out-fleeing him. Even if they get truflighted right after that, I consider it well worth it. Skirmisher Screen
You probably want regular skinks to screen for you since they are cheaper and thus more expendable. But if your screen is mainly to prevent BS shooting, Chamo Skinks may be worth the extra points. As scouts you have more flexibility deploying Chamo Skinks than regular Skinks. Also if you don’t take regular skinks on your lists, you can use Chamo Skinks as a skirmisher screen if circumstances beyond your control prevent you from using your skinks to do the above mentioned roles. Skirmisher vs. Skirmisher
There are usually better things to do with Chamo Skinks than matching their blowpipes against the bows of enemy skirmishers, but it is still a viable strategy. Chamo Skinks have an edge over most other Skirmishers in a pure shooting match between multi-shot, poison, BS4, and the additional penalty enemies have for shooting at them. There are a few skirmishers that can hold their own versus Chamo Skinks in a shooting match, but most of the units that CAN are pretty expensive. Thus, Chamo Skinks still win out on a point-for-point basis. Whoever you are fighting with, make sure that you stay out of their charge arc since Chamo Skinks are noticeably WEAKER compared to pretty much every other skirmisher in close combat unless you are fighting another Lizardmen player. Culling the Weak
While it’s normally not efficient to shoot at the regular infantry units of your opposing side with Chamo Skinks, sometimes the tiny dregs of a fleeing unit escape the wrath of your Saurus. You want to get the victory points for the unit, but you can’t afford to redirect your main units away from the stronger threats. It usually a simply matter to redirect your Chameleons to finish the unit off for you, especially late in the game when most war machines and big game targets have been accounted for. You can also shoot up small healthy units such as Empire Detachments. The downside of targeting small healthy units with Chamo Skinks is that it’s not that cost efficient. A healthy unit that is weak enough to succumb to Chamo Skinks is likely to cost a fraction of the Chamo Skinks you are wielding against them. Even then, you do not what Chamo Skinks to fight regular Skinks hand-to-hand. That's a battle of attrition you will lose. Common Threats to Chamo Skinks Auto-hit ranged Attacks
This broad category mainly includes magic missile spells, but auto-hit special abilities creep up in various army lists, especially undead with their scream attacks. Each threat has a different response. Magic missiles are the most straight forward, dispel anything directed at your Chamo Skinks. The army specific threats require you to know the basic capabilities of the unit and plan accordingly. Tomb Banshees (and other screamers) only have an eight inch range so use your 12” march move to stay out of range. One thing you can do against all auto-hit threats is bring additional units of Chamo Skinks, that way you can afford to lose one unit and still hit your desired targets. If I can’t afford two or more Chamo Skink units, I usually go with zero. EDIT: I've experimented with larger units of Chamo Skinks. That works too, but I think multiple small units are sightly better. Shooting from Tomb Kings or Wood Elves: All Tomb King BS based shooting has no penalties to hit for skirmishing, camouflage, or anything else. Chances are pretty good that a typical TK list will take enough archers to guarantee that your Lizardmen will be fighting in the shade, especially if they take the buff spell that gives them an extra round of shooting. Chamo Skinks cost 13 points each, have practically no armor save, low T and Ld. They will be very popular with the undead archers. Tomb Kings conveniently have war machines for us to hunt, but I am still at a loss for what to do when my all-comers list leads to me pitting my Chameleon Skinks against the forces of Nehekara. If anyone knows what to do in that situation, feel free to share it in this thread. Wood Elf archers can take an upgrade to ignore all shooting penalties (trueflight arrows) and so will hit our skinks on a 3+ and wound on a 3+. They are even scarier. Night Goblin Fanatics
Fanatics can steam roller your Chamo Skinks quite easily. One strategy is just to have your Chamo Skinks give blocks of Night Goblins a wide berth. That's a stall at best because that exposes the rest of your army to fanatics (unless you use Walk Between Worlds to trigger them, he he he). I prefer to have my Chamo Skinks trigger the Fanatics at maxium range (8 inches) as early as possible. Fanatics that spring early have a better chance of rolling doubles, blundering into a forest, randomly redirecting into a friendly unit, or flailing in an empty quarter of the table. Worst case scenario you have more time to pick off Fanatics with shooting. If you can send Chamo Skinks at a Night Goblin block and come at them from the side or the rear, the O&G will probably not want to send the Fanatics at your Scouts. Note, O&G players are not required to send their Fanatics towards the triggering units, they could send them out any direction they choose. Four times out of Five, if you can force your opponent's hand in this manner thought, it will be to your benefit. Fast Cavalry and Flyers
Like almost everything else, most Fast Cavalry and Flyers are capable of tearing through Chamo Skinks in melee without breaking a sweat. Unlike most other enemy units, these have a reasonable chance of forcing Chamo Skinks into close combat without another unit pincering them. Under most circumstances, the maneuverability of Chamo Skinks will keep them out of harm’s way from even these fast unit types. There is a trade-off though. A skilled general expecting Chamo Skinks will deploy their mobile units in front of their war machines and other vulnerable targets. This forces you to make a difficult choice between exposing your Chamo Skinks to danger or sending them against subpar targets. Heavy cavalry is also a threat to Chamo Skinks. That’s like using a sledge hammer to tap a nail though, most of the time there are better targets in the LM army for heavy cavalry. The worst thing you can do is put your Chamo Skinks in a place where heavy cavalry can run them down and then still hit your main line. Then your Chamo Skinks can’t even have died for a redirect. Other Issues Should I take a Stalker?A ten point upgrade will not make or break a game, but if you are the type of player who likes to squeeze every point, don’t take Stalkers. For almost the price of another Chameleon Skink, you can hit on 5+ instead of 6+. Poisoned Shooting really only needs 6s. How Big Should my Units Be?
The consensus is that 6-8 is best, though some like ten. As far as I know, even though we aren’t capped at ten any more, few if any Lizardmen players have fielded units larger than ten. Multiple smaller units will usually out perform a single large unit because they split their fire and take a hit better. If you lose five Chameleon Skinks from a unit of ten, the unit is 50/50 likely to panic. If you lose five Chameleon Skinks and you have two groups of five, you still have one group shooting for you. Bigger units aren’t worthless. A larger unit can take a magic missile with less chance of dying or panicking. They gain more from buff spells. The buff spells worth casting on Chameleon Skinks tend to be Harmonic Convergence, Hand of Glory (BS), and sometimes Walk Between Worlds. Also, sometimes you just want to roll a lot of dice at once and big units help there. In a smaller game, large units of Chameleon Skinks will have generally plenty of room to move and they can devastate relatively small enemy units with their shooting. What if the Enemy Deploys Really Tight, are my Scouts Worthless?: Hopefully I gave you enough ideas for secondary targets to seek and roles to play. Also the very fact that your opponents are deploying to stop Chameleon Skinks means even at the deployment stage, your enemy is responding to you rather than forcing you to respond to them. Press the initiative if at all possible and your Chameleon Skinks will still be valuable additions to your army. A good example of this is using Chameleon Skinks to prevent enemy Vanguard moves. The greatest threat Chamo Skinks face is irrelevance.
Sometimes you face an army with no “big game” targets or war machines. When this happens, your Chamo Skinks main reason for existing is gone. In this case, the best thing you can do is fall back onto secondary targets plinking whatever you can get at without exposing your Chamo Skinks to things that can kill them. Not every unit in your army has to kill its point’s worth of enemy units. At least try to keep them alive. In a less severe case, the optimum Chamo Skinks targets are all locked away real tight in a place where it’s practically impossible to get your Chamo Skinks at them. This is something time called a “castle.” I have not yet figured out a good way to counter this without magic leaving my Chamo Skinks outside the wall impotently throwing darts at a wall of infantry. If any of you know a non-magical solution to counter an enemy “castle” let me know. Another cause of irrelevance is AFTER you killed the targets that are vulnerable to Chamo Skinks and your main infantry blocks are mixing it up with what’s left. This leaves your Chamo Skinks without anything obvious to do. This is a good problem to have because it means you’ve dealt with most if not all of the threats left on the table. Don’t fall into the temptation to use your Chamo Skinks just because they are standing idle. If you can take some pot shots at something, feel free to do so. Don’t feel obligated to toss your Chamo Skinks into the flank or rear of an enemy engaging your Saurus just because you can. Chances are they will fight so poorly and die so easily that it will be a net loss to your CR. Whether you seem to be winning or losing the main battle, you probably want to deny your opponent the victory points for killing your Chamo Skinks if you can. One thing you CAN do with your Chamo Skinks in the late stage of battle is parking your Skinks an inch away from the back of an enemy unit to prevent reforms. Particularly useful when you are fighting a horde formation unit that’s been reduced to the point where they would prefer to reform into extra ranks as opposed to remaining ten wide. They risk getting in the way if your units break the unit the Chamo Skinks are planted behind and are prevented from pursuing through them. Overall they are a solid unit. If you deploy them correctly and your opponent has little good shooting that can deal with the permanent -2 to hit modifier applied before soft or hard cover, long range and movement penalties are even applied, they will be very difficult to deal with outside of investing damage spells or melee units to their destruction. Their high cost compared to regular Skink Skirmishers does limit them somewhat but I feel the Scout redeployment is easily worth the price of admission, as Lizardmen otherwise can struggle immensely with gunlines featuring numerous war machines. Stegadon – 215pts
Earmarking themselves as the go-to monster for competitive Lizardmen players, Stegadons (including their Ancient siblings) provide the army book with its most cost-efficient monster and also one of the toughest by far. Toughness 6 with 5 wounds and a 4+ armour save is only ever so slightly more durable in a sense than a Carnosaur, but in actual application it means that Strength 4 Chaos Warriors and other common elite choices won't have such an easy time against a Stegadon. It also greatly reduces its vulnerabilities to many spells and war machines such as bolt throwers, though obviously cannonballs and direct hits from stone throwers will still get the job done against a Stegadon regardless of the improved Toughness value. The key term here is value and that is because the Stegadon is priced well as a monster on its own but also comes with five Skinks atop it that cannot be targeted separately to the Stegadon itself, providing the beast with some light ranged presence and a minimal boost to its' melee damage output. Speaking of close combat, a Stegadon might seem unappealing at first but it is easily the superior of a Carnosaur once you consider its overall survivability and damage dealt against a wide range of different targets. The Toughness 6 helps, but what really sets the Stegadon is the fact that it deals D6+1 Impact Hits at Strength 5 on a turn in which it charges, adding on to its four Strength 5 attacks that are resolved normally at Initiative 2 and Weapon Skill 3. The five Skinks themselves provide an extra five Strength 3 attacks at Initiative 4 and Weapon Skill 2, and once the Strength 5 Thunderstomp is accounted for the Stegadon is easily superior to the Carnosaur when it comes to crushing infantry of all kinds. It can have a further purchased upgrade: Unstoppable Stampede. This gives it devastating charge, so another Str 5 attack on the charge. 10pts to further boost its damage on the charge isn’t a bad price. It is also Stubborn on Leadership 6 that combines well with the Cold-Blooded special rule and should see it pass just over half of the (hopefully few) Leadership tests it is forced to take, a slight improvement over the Skinks that crew the great beast. Immune to Psychology means it will never have to worry about taking Panic tests which no doubt makes the owners of Chimera's look on enviously, while the five lustrian javelins wielded by the Skink crew provide the Stegadon with some decent little shooting capabilities. They also cause Terror so can sometimes cause targets to run without even making combat! The bolt thrower is not as much of a gem as many may think it is, seeing as it is mounted on a platform that should generally be moving and is crewed by Ballistic Skill 3 models. The bolt thrower has a range of 36" which complements the good Movement 6 of the Stegadon well, with it being reduced to Strength 5 as opposed to most bolt throwers but gaining the Poison special rule to make up for it. When you consider that the Stegadon is very well priced as a monster based on its close combat capabilities alone, the bolt thrower is effectively a nice little extra that can potentially do a lot of damage if you get lucky with your to hit rolls. Moving and firing at long range see the bolt thrower need 6s to hit, but any 6 to hit counts as Poisoned, automatically wounding, ignoring armour saves and inflicting D3 wounds on the model struck - remembering though that subsequent models hit still require a successful to-wound roll in order to be harmed. Even if you throw it into a list just as the cheap monster that it is, the combination of Impact Hits, shooting, good survivability and immunity to Panic make for a valuable and strong monster option with all the usual traits that unit type brings to the table. If you really want to capitalize on its capabilities as a monster or monstrous cavalry hunter, however, you can also upgrade it to Sharpened horns for 20pts, which add the Multiple Wounds (D3) special rule to all of its Impact Hits. Resolved at Strength 5 and receiving D6+1 of them, the Impact Hits of Stegadons affected by this appropriately priced upgrade quickly become a very real and dangerous tool against enemy models with more than one wound. If we go off a random roll of three plus the guaranteed one extra, four Strength 5 Impact Hits resolved against an enemy War Hydra will statistically wound twice, allowing only a 6+ armour save. We can assume both are failed, leading to the War Hydra taking at least two wounds; if the average roll of 2D6 is 7 we can guess the two dice rolled are a 3 and a 4 (usually), meaning the War Hydra takes four wounds just from the Stegadon's Impact Hits alone. That is a very dead War Hydra once the Skinks and Stegadon itself attack in close combat! To say I am a big fan of Stegadons would be an understatement, and their small base size compared to something like an Arachnarok Spider means they can easily get around your opponent and get off a nasty flank charge or otherwise target your vulnerable units. For a detailed tactica covering both Stegadons, see this post: Comprehensive Stegadon Tactica | The Eighth Edition For Life (EEFL) Warhammer Forum (freeforums.net)
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:09:42 GMT
post 8 - Rare
Ancient Stegadon – 230pts
Seeing as this is virtually the exact same unit as a regular Stegadon covered previously, I'll just cover the basics of both Stegadon types here. These are pretty survivable as far as regular monsters go with five Toughness 6 wounds and a decent armour save, though their actual combat stats are rather mediocre with only a handful of medium Strength attacks at a low Initiative. They have low Leadership which is compensated by having all three of the Cold-Blooded, Immune to Psychology and Stubborn special rules and cause Terror to boot. They have 5 skink crew as standard, that cannot be targeted separately to the Stegadon itself but otherwise provide a few extra weak melee and shooting attacks. Their real strength comes from inflicting D6+1 Impact Hits like a Chariot but without any of the drawbacks in regards to Dangerous Terrain or the various other unique traits attached to that unit type. Tack on a Thunderstomp and you are left with one of the more valuable types' of monsters around.
Where the Ancient Stegadon differs from its younger counter-part (aside from being a Rare choice instead of a Special choice and 15pts more expensive) is that it has a boosted Strength of six, one less attack and Initiative 1 instead of Initiative 2. While the stat change might seem like a down-grade at first, it is hugely beneficial to its' Impact Hits and Thunderstomp - after all, those are the main source of its damage output! The Ancient Stegadon also benefits from an improved 3+ armour save, making it one of the tougher monsters in the game considering its' points cost.
While it features the exact same number of Skink crew as a regular Stegadon, the Giant Bow is swapped out for Giant Blowpipes; these fire 4D6 (there are two, and each fires 2D6 shots) Strength 3 Poisoned shots at a 18" range, using the crew's Ballistic Skill of three. The rough average of 4D6 shots is around 14-15 shots which can lead to numerous Poisons, a probable improvement over the hilariously inaccurate Giant Bow on the standard Stegadon. The main issue with the blow pipes is that you are still restricted by the crews BS of 3, so with the multiple shots and if you moved and are at long range, you will onlt be hitting on 7’s, so lose access to the poison. Of course, once you are actually in range to fire the Giant Blowpipes you will often also be in charge range.
The 20pt Sharpened Horns upgrade is even more valuable on an Ancient Stegadon with that nice Strength 6 and gives Lizardmen players arguably their best counter to monsters outside of standard Poisoned shooting, while the unstoppable stampede is less so (though you could argue that any additional attack is worthwhile).
The Engine of the Gods is a very interesting change in the Ancient Stegadons' role. Replacing the two Giant Blowpipes and any proper shooting other than the Skinks' lustrian javelins, the Engine of the Gods reduces the casting values of each spell from a single spell lore of your choice in the rulebook - perfect if you are fielding Tetto’Eko, while all friendly units, including the Ancient Stegadon itself, benefit from a 6+ ward save while within 6" of it. This is obviously suited to Saurus units that use spears instead of the hand weapon and shield combo, as the 6+ ward save provides them a permanent equivalent to a parry save, while it is also nice to have, just to survive the inevitable volley of shooting your monsters will face against most opponents. The Engine of the Gods also provides the owner with an Innate Bound Spell bearing a low power level of three, causing all enemy units within 4D6" to suffer D6 Strength 4 Flaming hits.
Note: This bound spell is another item that causes arguments and needed an FAQ. It is a direct damage spell, so will only hit enemy in the front arc but the entry states that it hits all enemy units within 4D6”. So RAW, it can only hit all enemy units within 4D6” in its forward arc! It is often argued that, ‘hits all enemy units with 4D6”’, means that the spell is now a radius/bubble effect. Given that this is how it worked in previous editions, I suspect that this was indeed the intention, else the spell becomes extrememly lacklustre but it is one that should be discussed with an opponent or tournament organiser. It also must be noted that it can’t be cast into combat (another direct damage limitation) but also doesn’t need line of sight.
Much like the Bastiladon's Solar Engine' Bound Spell, the Ancient Stegadon provides players with decently powerful anti-chaff tool with a low casting cost and no actual risks attached due to being Innate. While most prefer to keep an Ancient Stegadon relatively cheap with just the Sharpened Horns upgrade to maximise the incredible damage its' Impact Hits can cause, the 50pt Engine of the Gods upgrade is quite valuable when backing up all manner of Saurus, Skinks or monsters that can do with the slight defensive boost and anti-chaff tool. Overall, the ancient Stegadon is just as good - if not better – than the baby Stegadon and as such it should be one of the first choices picked in your Rare slot.
Salamander Hunting Pack – 80pts
Of the two "Hunting Pack" units, Salamanders are generally considered the most competitive, a conclusion I most definitely agree with. The basic profile of these two units is identical, however, so I will cover that exclusively here to save time for both myself and you as a reader. Each Salamander is classed as a Monstrous Beast on its own but, due to its' trio of Skink handlers, it follows all the rules for monsters and handlers. This allows it a single Stomp at Strength 5 in addition to its pair of regular S5 attacks resolved at an above average Initiative 4, though Weapon Skill 3 and its weak Skink crew limit its' overall combat potential. Three Toughness 4 wounds with a 5+ armour save and 5+ "monster and handlers save" from the three stock Skink attendants makes it a decently tough unit to bring down considering its points cost and role, though Cold-Blooded on Leadership 5 is decidedly mediocre and makes them dangerously vulnerable to Panic tests. Being Skirmishers means the unit benefits from free reforms and extra protection in the form of a to-hit penalty against shooting attacks, while Movement 6 makes them very mobile indeed - all the better for a ranged Skirmisher unit, of course! They are also yet another unit in the army that causes fear and also gets the Aquatic rule.
Those are the basics of both Salamanders and Razordons, but what makes Salamanders unique is that they can use a fire thrower with a few modifications, as a shooting attack with no once-per-game restriction. Dragons wish they could use a Strength 4, Flaming Fire Thrower as opposed to their heavily restricted breath weapons, though the risk of misfire - causing D3 Skinks to be removed as casualties and possibly causing a monster reaction test for the Salamander (you can mitigate this by buying an extra handler for 4pts) - and the potential to under or over shoot the template does somewhat offset being able to fire at as many times as you please. Still, despite the risks involved, there is absolutely no denying how amazing a very mobile Strength 4 Fire Thrower is, in an army that is absolutely top notch at clearing enemy chaff, allowing you to tear out entire chunks of infantry regiments at a time with ease. Causing Panic tests in cavalry because of the Flaming Attacks is decent, but the depth of infantry units generally means they are the best targets for Salamanders. If you manage even fifteen hits against your standard Elf Spearmen block, you should vaporise at least eight and almost make up the Salamanders' cost in one shooting phase. It is simply fantastic for the points considering its' survivability and decent close combat potential, in addition to a great shooting attack, one that perfectly complements the Poisoned Strength 3 shots of Skink Skirmishers.
What factors do you weigh when deciding how many to take and how to group them?
Depends how many points you can spare with your army. If likely opponents are deemed to be especially vulnerable or especially resistant to salamander fire I am likely to adjust the total up or down. Two single Salamanders beat one pair most of the time for their ability to come at different directions, giving you adaptability to split or concentrate fire as needed. There is no maximum size on Salamanders anymore but I can’t think of any situation where you’d want more than three in a pack unless a special scenario is just chocked full of buildings like Raze and Ruin.
When do you take an extra handler? How big should my teams be?
If I field Salamanders singly, I want to take a spare handler for sure. The more Salamanders you have in one unit the less likely an extra snack is going to be because they share handlers so I wouldn't take a spare unless I had extra points lying around.
What range do you want to be at when shooting your flame for maximum average effectiveness?
I don’t want to bog down the game measuring things. I lay the flame template out from the Sallies mouth and if it barely nicks the closer edge of the target, I deem that a good range for most block troops. Now that we can’t march and shoot we can’t be as choosy as we used to be with target selection.
These things make targets more attractive to burn
-The target unit has low toughness (anything T4 or less will burn okay nowadays) -The target is made up of several models with small bases -The target has a relatively low chance of passing a panic test -The target has a weak armor save -The target has a Regeneration Save -The target is poorly positioned to retaliate
These things make targets less attractive to burn
-The target has strong armor saves. -The target is made up of a small number of models with very large bases. -The target has a relatively low chance of failing a panic test (or are immune to panic) -the target has a high ward save (or has a fire specific ward save) -Shooting at the target unit will put your Sallies in direct harm's way from the target’s unit or a unit friendly to the target. -The target unit's models are all multiple wounds so they are unlikely to have whole models removed
When is getting Sallies into close combat a good idea?
1) When you are out of things to shoot at 2) When there’s a close combat going on so vital, that your whole match is lost if you lose it. Ergo you need all the help you can get 3) When the salamander can charge a war machine 4) When you need a sacrificial unit to stall or redirect a nasty unit. 5) When you have no choice 6) When you want to play herd with a unit that's already fleeing
What LM units work well with Sallies, which units don't?
I think Salamanders do well if the bulk of your army is slow moving. Saurus and Bastiladons versus Skroxigor and Cold One Cavalry. If you build your army around a Fast Attack strategy your Salamanders probably will only get one good shot off first before the two lines converge. To keep Salamanders from being overran by Fast Cavalry and flyers, I’d recommend screening your Salamanders with Razordons or Javelin wielding Skirmishers. Razordons and Salamanders seem to be a good partnership. Make sure anything threatening your Salamanders faces a lot of missile fire. Ripperdactyls can also clear a path for your Salamanders. You can still take Salamanders in a Fast Attack army, just don’t go overboard with them. Tetto’eko can help a lot. Salamanders are one of the best units we have to Vanguard.
Where and when do you employ Sallies on your battle line?
Where: Usually on the flanks. You can get a better line up shooting at the flank of a unit than the front and be less likely to be charged. Usually whenI put a Salamander near my center I’ve regretted it. I haven’t been able to get good shot lined up and then get charged. It worked once in a team game when I was able to buff them with Life spells and stall a big block ogres allowing the rest of my team’s troops to take his army on piecemeal. I haven’t figured out a solution for when opponents who put their cavalry on the flanks though.
When: Usually as close to last as possible. You want to try to find a spot in the enemy battle line that your salamanders can safely slide into and get advantageous shots. If you put down your salamanders early they can make sure that the units closest to your Salamanders are both 1) not especially vulnerable to salamander fire and (2) capable of easily schooling the Salamander in close combat. It’s more important than ever to place them strategically since they can’t march and shoot anymore.
How do use magic to get the most out of your Sallies?
High Magic: Walk Between Worlds compensates for our lack of March and Shoot. The rest of the lore is mostly for the rest of the army.
Jack of All Trades: Taking all eight signature spells? You can easily clear the field of chaff units that can threaten your Salamanders letting them roam freely to burn things as they please.
Fire: I don’t see any synergy between Lore of Fire and Salamanders because Kindleflame only applies to magical fire. A Fire Slann with lots of Salamanders, your strategy is probably to kill as much as possible before they get into close combat. Just the novelty of having a pyro strategy has some twisted appeal.
Beasts: Salamanders technically benefit from Wildheart (since they are warbeasts), but Wyssan’s Wildform is the only augment that can target a Salamander team and that spell is probably more useful on infantry blocks.
Metal: Now that Salamanders have lost the massive armor piercing bonus, a Metal Slann with a lot of Salamanders will give you full coverage. Use the Salamanders for the poorly armored targets and use magic for the tin cans.
Light: The two magic missles can be good for shooting at things the Salamanders can’t get to and Light of Battle might help a Sally in close combat purely to tie up another unit, but as awesome as Light is in general, I see it as being for the rest of the army.
Life: If the Sallies are sallying forth ahead of your army and they get in close combat before you want them too, the buffs might buy them some time. Use the lore attribute to heal Sallies if needed, but I see Life as mainly for the non-Sallies in your army.
Heavens: With the tendency of a Salamander to hit many models at once, Harmonic Convergence could potentially be quite useful for Salamanders. I don’t see much Heavens can do to help Sallies in particular.
Shadows: Withering. Low toughness units are the preferred things for Sallies to shoot at and Withering accomplishes this. The rest of the lore is mostly for the non-Sallies in the army.
Death: Doom and Darkness makes enemies much more likely to panic due to Salamander inflicted casualties. Soulblight is almost as good as Withering for softening up a target pre-basting. Purple Sun is slightly more likely to hit your Salamanders by mistake than the rest of your army because Salamanders tend to scurry ahead of the main force, but Purple Sun is risky however you slice it.
Undeath: You might be able to summon a unit to back up a hunting pack but there is very little the lore can do for Salamanders. Undeath lacks spells to damage things and Salamanders can pick up the slack there.
Razordon Hunting Pack – 65pts
As I discussed in my Salamander review above, Razordons' share the exact same profile with their monstrous beast competitor in the Rare slot. Where Razordons' differ is that they actually can make a Stand and Shoot with their distinct ranged attack, and must always do so as a charge reaction whenever possible. That they can re-roll the artillery dice when determining the number of shots fired for a Stand and Shoot charge reaction gives them some very under-appreciated defensive applications, especially as their "Shoot Barbs" attack is classed as Quick to Fire. This actually fires using the Ballistic Skill 3 value of the Razordon rather than the Skinks, but still operates by using an artillery dice to determine the number of shots each Razordon shoots; this means a Razordon can shoot anywhere between two and ten shots, just like a cannon's grapeshot. These shots are resolved at Strength 4 and have an 18" range, meaning that a Razordon will usually need 6s to hit after moving and firing at long range (as 9" is the short range).
Even though the unit is classed as a Skirmisher, Razordons' cannot march and shoot, just like their Salamander rivals. Rolling a misfire, when determining the number of shots fired, will similarly cause the Razordon to consume D3 Skink handlers rather than suffer any damage itself (you can buy an extra handler for 4pts, which helps to mitigate this). Generally speaking Salamanders make for a better all-round addition to a Lizardmen list because they excel at clearing out or at least severely crippling infantry regiments, whereas Razordons are specialized towards chaff removal more than anything else, a role already filled quite well by Skinks of all kinds. This means the Razordon can be rendered somewhat superfluous in a standard competitive Lizardmen army list, but what keeps me from rating them lowly is how well they can stave off charges with their enhanced Stand and Shoot capabilities. Salamanders suffer by being easily countered if they are charged seeing as they cannot stand and shoot, whereas a Razordon can reliably put a dent in its' attacker before the charge is completed. Besides, actually having Strength 4 shooting is nice for reducing 2+ armour saves on heavy cavalry to a 3+, making them far more manageable.
Whereas with Salamanders, I’d tend to run them as single models. Razordons I would consider running in a larger pack. Perhaps even 6 of them moving up with your main blocks, providing fire support and angling to take charges where their special rules will allow them to get in one last round of shooting before they can then use their not insignificant melee abilities. I’m not sure how fully effective this would be but it would be fun!
Like Salamanders, Razordons are a valuable purchase because they combine numerous roles into one points efficient unit while assisting some already fantastic units in the form of Skinks with their usual endeavors.
Troglodon – 200pts
Of all the new units added to the Lizardmen army book, I think you would have to go far and wide to find someone who argued these were not the worst by far; this is such a shame as the model truly is beautiful to behold in person, and one can definitely understand what the rules designers were aiming for. Like the Bastiladon, a Troglodon is built around the unusual concept of a support monster rather than something intended for straight combat, though it can at least do a bit more damage in a melee than its much smaller kin. Combining a shooting attack with a cool one-use-only buff to all nearby Saurus type units, helps to give it a purpose in all kinds of Lizardmen lists, either by being just a fast monster that can stand back and shoot, or using it on flank charges while providing handy augments to your Saurus. Movement 7 is above average mobility for a monster which suits the Troglodon just fine, especially as it is mounted by a Skink Oracle that possesses the Arcane Vassal special rule, allowing powerful Slaan Mages like Lore Kroak to cast their damage spells through the Troglodon. You can also upgrade the Oracle to allow it to channel (for 15pts). It is the only Lizardmen monster in the army book to actually possess the new Predatory Fighter special rule, while it has a wealth of other unique traits besides to diversify its' role from all the other monsters in the book.
Unfortunately, when you actually put all of these different elements into practice, you quickly realize just how mediocre - if not terrible - they actually are. For one, the shooting attack - not counting the Oracle's lustrian javelin - will almost never hit seeing as it is used by a Ballistic Skill 3 model and has a low 18" range, even if Quick to Fire does thankfully mean it can always Stand and Shoot and doesn't receive a penalty for moving. This generally means the Spit Venom attack will hit on 5s, averaging one hit every three turns or two in a standard six-turn game, and Strength 5 with Multiple Wounds (D3) really isn't all that great considering how unlikely you are to make full use of it. Sure, you can always raise the Ballistic Skill of the Troglodon through Hand of Glory from High Magic, but why bother with that, when Chameleon Skinks, Skink Skirmishers and even Stegadons need that buff far more than a Troglodon does - and that is only accounting for using the spell to raise a units' Ballistic Skill! Being a single shot with Strength 5 and Multiple Wounds (D3) means it is obviously intended for hunting monstrous type models, but Strength 5 against what will usually be Toughness 5 with no other armour save modifiers applied other than the usual ones and only D3 wounds is a pretty poor investment to waste this things' close combat attacks.
Speaking of close combat, the Troglodon is almost as bad as a Bastiladon in that area, being Weapon Skill 3 with a painful Initiative value of two much like most Lizardmen monsters, only exposed here because it has a mere three Strength 5 attacks. Sure, it has Predatory Fighter and Poisoned Attacks, but that relies too much on rolling 6s to hit which means you will only ever the get the benefit of both once per two rounds of combat, though at the very least a Strength 5 Thunderstomp is still decent. This would all be fine if the Troglodon was as survivable as a Bastiladon considering the latter has some very impressive support abilities, but the Troglodon is as mind-bogglingly survivable as a Carnosaur (otherwise known as "bad) with five Toughness 5 wounds and a 4+ armour save. I guess it is average for a monster that is a quarter of the Troglodon's cost, but given its' price and lack of any significant melee or ranged prowess, this is a beast that just cannot deal out the damage or take it back with any kind of efficiency. The only really decent thing about the Troglodon, isn't even that great in the context of a competitive Lizardmen list, providing all units with Predatory Fighter within 12" an extra attack on the roll of a 5 or 6 rather than just a 6 once-per-game. That's all well and good to be getting extra attacks on a third of the applicable attacks, but remembering that Predatory Fighter only applies to the front rank and almost all Lizardmen Saurus blocks are deployed six-wide, you quickly realize this isn't nearly as nice of a boost as you would hope for (though if you play that PF affects all attacks, even supporting attacks, then this becomes a lot better). Need I even mention that many competitive Lizardmen armies don't feature that many combat blocks, instead taking skink clouds, eliminating much of the intended value of this particular special rule?
Given its' price and mix of abilities, the Troglodon aims to be an all-rounder but fails spectacularly, making a pathetic attempt at mixing a poor, inaccurate shooting attack with crazily bad combat prowess and extremely limited support capabilities. If it was at least forty or fifty points cheaper, a Troglodon wouldn't be a bad investment as it could still at least be considered a mediocre all-rounder that excels at nothing but somewhat performs multiple roles, but even then it would still be questionable it is unabashedly terrible at almost everything it does. If you want to use a "monster-mash" type of list and have spare Rare points after taking Ancient Stegadons, a Troglodon might work, or perhaps if you load up on Saurus Warriors to a ridiculous amount - almost to the exclusion of everything else. There is just little real value to be had from this choice even if it is monster with "average" stats given its high cost, especially once you compare it to the Ancient Stegadon which occupies the exact same slot. While I wouldn't say it is as bad as often mooted, because it does at least have the durability of a monster that should be within 50 or 60 points of its' current base cost and it does give you an extra monster but there is little real point to adding one and you are always better off with any of the other Rare choices.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:09:52 GMT
Post 9 - Army Book Magic items
Magic Weapons
The Blade of Realities – 100pts
The compulsory 100pts item in the army book and unlike most items at this cost, it can be worth considering. For this you get a magic weapon that ignores both armour AND Ward Saves. Considering that the obsidian blade (and dwarf runic equivilent) are 50pts on the nose, you are paying an additional 50pts for bypassing the ward.
The only downside of this blade is that it now takes up all of a Lord's points for magic items and thus robs you of the ability to take any Ward Saves of your own. On the plus side, the Oldblood (the only lord you will take it on), can get a generic 2+ save on foot just by taking light armour and a shield or a 1+ save if on a coldone, purely by taking a shield, so is therefore pretty survivable anyway.
It also means that opponents Lords/Heroes will have to rely on purely their Toughness and Weapon Skill to avoid dying and against any lord with the same or higher WS and Toughness of 5, your 5, base strength 5 attacks will on average cause 2 wounds, 3 if Predatory figher proc’s and that is a dead enemy lord.
Now you do have to get your Oldblood into combat with the right target to make this a worthwhile point’s investment and with Wizards normally being the main single model to have a ward, the question becomes would you be better off taking other items? Sure witch elves and phoenix guard and a few other select units also have wards but your rank and file often kill these just as easily and you could take other items and give the oldblood the other tricksters shard to force ward save re-rolls for just 15pts.
The Piranha Blade – 50pts
The wielder gets the multiple wound (D3) and armour piercing rules. This item is probably a bit expensive as although armour piercing is never a bad thing (consistently giving you a -3 vs armour saves), the multiple wound rule is quite conditional, only really of use against enemy monsters or characters.
I’d be remiss not to mention that both the Armour Piercing and multiple wounds stack on Impact Hits, so this item could be used on a mounted Oldblood, together with the Stegadon Helm, to give D3 Str 5, AP impact hits, with each wound multiplying to D3. Basically a mini Stegadon but with more combat power after the initial hits and you will have a few points left over for other magic items.
Another use is to give it to a Scar Vet on foot and challenge, as it allows you to rack up the combat bonus with Overkill. With only 4 attacks you have a strong potential to get one Wound to kill the champ and the +5 Overkill bonus for a total of +6 to combat res. Pretty good for only 4 attacks.
Magic Armour
Sacred Stegadon Helm of Itza – 40pts
The only Magic Armour the Lizardmen get but what an armour! It gives +1 to Armour Save, +1 Toughness AND +D3 Impact Hits. Although not the cheapest of armour, for the bonuses it gives, it is very well costed but it is definitely of more use on an Oldblood due to the price as it allows you to then stack up with other magic items. RAW, the impact hits allow this to stack with the Piranha Blade. I’ve seen this occasionally argued against and we are not going to get an FAQ at this point but it’s a safe assumption that the combination was intended by the GW writers considering that the two magic items are listed right next to each other
Skavenpelt Banner – The item is BSB only but there is much appeal in making a unit of Temple Guard Frenzied since the extra attacks benefit from Predatory Fighter and whatever buff or hex spells the Slann is throwing about. It is expensive though. I’d actually be LESS likely to take this versus Skaven since only the Temple Guard would get the Hatred and every single Skaven unit thrown at the Temple Guard would get Hatred against them.
Magic Standards
Skavenpelt Banner – 65pts
This banner grants the Frenzy and Hatred (Skaven) rules, but all Skaven gain Hatred when attacking the bearer. As it is more than 50 points this banner can only be used on the BSB. You won’t take this banner on a Scar Vet BSB as he won’t be able to take any other magic items but it could be worth considering on your Slann. A Slann won’t normally be able to be targeted in combat so the listed drawback (Skaven gaining hatred vs the bearer) isn’t a great worry and if you still wanted an LD10 general, the standard of Discipline could go on the Templeguard banner. The downside of getting frenzy, the compulsory overrun and being frenzy baited, isn’t much different from the downside of Predatory fighter (though of course PF can be mitigated through the use of a Skink character).
While 3 attacks each on the front rank of your Templeguard is very nice, the biggest downside to the banner is the cost. This is both the actual 65pts cost and the opportunity cost. With the banner, you are likely getting 6-8 additional attacks (based on an average frontage of between 5-7 models and including Predatory Fighter proc’s), which isn’t bad as they will be at Str 5. The bigger question is whether you prefer the volume of attacks over other useful banners such as the Banner of Eternal Flame (to help strip regen), the Razor Standard (to give armour piercing and thus the sweet -3 to enemy saves) or the Standard of Discipline (to boost the LD). Given that the BSB and Temple Guard are the only way that you can take a magic standard, you have very limited choices and what combo to take is a big consideration and probably the main reason you rarely see this.
Jaguar Standard – 50pts
The Jaguar Standard gives the unit Swiftstride and is just cheap enough to be used by a unit of Temple Guard. It's an OK choice for a banner but there are others that could probably work better. It’s a nice way to make sure that if the Temple Guard run off after a unit, due to their Predatory Fighter rule, they catch and kill whatever fled.
Arcane Items
Cube of Darkness – 30pts
A 5 point, more expensive Dispel Scroll that ‘only’ works on a 2+. In addition, you roll a die for each Remains in Play spell on the board and on a 2+ it ends. After taking a Dispel Scroll this is an almost "must take" (if you can), as having 2 almost guaranteed ways of getting rid of an enemy spell can be game changing. As such a lot of tournament packs (at least in the UK) will comp this item heavily. Be careful as this item, by RAW, can also dispel your own remains in play spells!
Plaque of Dominion – 25pts
A Bound Spell (power level 3) that contains a hex spell that targets all enemy wizardswithin 18”. If the mages fails a leadership test, they are subject to stupidity until the start of your next magic phase. If your opponent has his mage parked within range of a General/BSB leave this at home. If not... probably still leave it at home and just take a Dispel Scroll first and the Cube second.
As a corner case, if you manage to get this off, the wizard will become immune to psychology and thus won’t be able to flee any charges made against him (/her) and any bunker they are in.
Enchanted Items
The Cloak of Feathers – 35pts
For 15pts less than the main rulebook flying carpet, this item not only gives the wearer the flay ability but also grants them magic resistance (1). The magic res is very conditional and unlikely to make any difference so you are mainly taking this item to allow a skink to get in favourable positions to utilise the arcane vassel rule. On top of this, you will likely only take it if using specific Slann builds, such as using a Death Slann (to get around the short ranged nature of many of the snipes) or when using Lord Kroak. In those instances, this item becomes an almost must take but outside of that, you will probably not use it.
The Horn of Kygor – 35pts
A musical instrument carved from a long dead dinosaur. When your Hero blows it all Monsters and Beasts in your army, within a 12” range, will gain the Frenzy rule for one turn. As it will not affect the riders and is extremely expensive for a One Use Only item that does fairly little, it's best to leave this at home. Could be useful if you are running a large number of Coldone riders but probably not.
The Egg of Quango – 30pts
Another One User Only item but this one can be more useful. You can summon the ancient dinosaur from its egg and with a little luck he will clobber your enemies. Why luck? Well its effect is based on a dice roll. On a 1, the enemy suffers D6 Str 3 hits. On a 2-3 they suffer D6 Str 4 hits and on a 4-6 they suffer 2D6 Str 5 hits. As a One Use Only and with only a 50% chance of getting the most from it, this should probably be left at home. But when you like dinosaurs (and that's why you're playing Lizardmen) then it's not bad. While it's 'fun' it's also rather silly. The whole point of the Quango was that it was some rare, mystical creature which could change the outcome of the War against Chaos, with Mazamundi deciding when it should be opened... He's decided it is now and it doesn't do anything to help the War in terms of fluff. But it is an amusing item.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 27, 2022 20:10:04 GMT
Post 10 - Rule Book Magic Items
Magic Weapons:
It’s worth noting from the off that giving a Saurus character a Halberd or Great Weapon, is much cheaper and just as effective in most situations.
Fencer's Blades – 35pts: WS 10 and an extra attack but you can't use a shield with it. Our Saurus have pretty bad Weapon Skill, so this is nice for us. Makes us killier and a bit more resistant in one package. Also a nice pick for a Skink Priest you want right in the front lines to cast through so he doesn't instantly die. If you have 35 points left over on a Slann, it's a hilarious pick, and might actually save some wounds on him. Combo this, the Crown of Command, Dragonbane Gem, Transcendent Healing, and Higher State of Consciousness for a very unorthodox, yet oddly effective Slann tarpit.
Sword of Swift Slaying – 25pts: Grants Always Strikes First. Our Initiative is so low that we're not getting rerolls with this without magic support, so basically just a premium paid for a second Gold Sigil Sword. Better if you have magical initiative support.
Gold Sigil Sword – 15pts: Grants Initiative 10. Our Initiative is trash, our damage output is great, we like sending Scar Veterans and Oldbloods to murder characters, this could be the difference between our Scar Veteran walking away triumphant, or dying before he lands a single hit. Very useful and cheap.
Sword of Striking - 15pts: +1 to hit. Good, simple weapon. To hit modifiers are nice for our Saurus. If you don't know what else to take, this is a good one.
Giant Blade – 60pts: +3 Strength. Strength 8 vs 7 isn’t a huge leap and you can get Str 7 on our Saurus for under 10pts with a great weapon. Not a great choice.
Ogre Blade – 40pts: +2 Strength. This is better. Strength 7 is generally the sweet spot for most purposes but again our characters can get this with a cheap great weapon and ASL isn’t too much of a hinderance given our rubbish initiative. You could give this to a skink chief but it’s an expensive choice for a squishy character.
Sword of Might – 20pts: You're paying 20 points for the ability to take a shield on your Saurus over a Halberd. Situationally useful, otherwise just take the Halberd. It’s a better pick on a Skink Chief, who can't take a halberd anyways, and appreciates the punch.
Sword of Bloodshed – 60pts: +3 Attacks. Our Oldbloods generally have much better things to be doing than blending, and usually have enough attacks to win fights with other characters as it is and would probably like other, more supportive items. Pass unless you're insisting on a unit babysitting Oldblood. Then only probably pass. Worth noting for this and all the other +Attacks items, that you CAN proc Predatory Fighter off of the extra attacks. Probably not enough to take them when you otherwise wouldn't, but a nice tiebreaker.
Sword of Strife – 40pts: +2 attacks. Nearly as nice for 2/3 the price, this is actually worth a look on an Oldblood leading a unit, since there's plenty if budget left for other stuff. Scar Vet still probably wants something else.
Sword of Battle – 20pts: +1 attack. See above, but a bit more flexible since it fits neatly on a Scar Vet, too.
Berserker Sword – 20pts: Grants Frenzy. Basically the above item, except we nearly always get ItP from a Cold One, Carnosaur, or Ripperdactyl, which will most certainly be in use if alone. Strictly worse than the SoB above... but such a small difference that you can take it if you want a second. The forced charge can be disastrous though.
Sword of Anti-Heroes – 30pts: +1S & +1A for each enemy character in base contact with the wearer or his unit. Not too bad. We're usually kitting our Saurus for ramming into units to kill a character anyways. Worst case, it's two decent weapons wrapped into one at a conveniently priced discount, and in the event they have two, be that a Wizard hiding in with the enemy general, a magic item stooge supporting a unit leader, or anything else, this bumps up to an absolutely terrifying weapon. Respect the cost, and remember that it does nothing at all if you're attacking a unit with no characters. Must-have if you know you're fighting Brettonia.
Relic Sword – 10pts: Always wounds anything on 5+ (unless you would need less). Might be funny on a Skink Priest or a Slann with points left over. Two more Skinks mean two more poisoned attacks, which are very nearly as effective... but it IS pretty funny to see your Skink shank an Ogre or something. Your Slann has much better ways to spend the points, even if the boost to their offense in a Temple Guard unit might actually be handy.
Shrieking Sword – 10pts: Bearer causes Fear. You have other sources of Fear, your own troops are damn near immune to it, and it's expensive as "any old" magic weapon. Just take a Cold One if you want Fear in a unit.
Tormenter's Blade – 5pts: Gives Stupidity to a character/monster wounded by this. If your Saurus wounds something than hopefully it's dead, if you got killed by a Vampire Lord, it probably attacked first so it didn't get wounded anyways, and your Skink Priests and Slann will struggle to wound anything. Might have niche use on a Skink Chief on a Terradon or something to damage something Ethereal, but you probably have enough magic to not even worry about that.
Warrior's Bane – 5pts: A monster or character who takes wounds from this weapon loses 1A per wound taken. See above. Almost always better than the Tormenters Blade and can add a secondary purpose to a Skink character. Actually worth more than that extra Skink in most games.
Spellthieving Sword – 25pts: Each time you wound a wizard, he forgets a random spell. If a wizard is still alive after combat with a Saurus, something has gone very wrong. Niche utility on a Skink Chief hunting for big, beefy named wizards but generally a terrible sword no matter what army you are using.
Obsidian Blade – 50pts: Attacks ignore armor saves. Overpriced for one, Strength 5 (or 7 woth a great weapon) is already decent against armor for two, and for the knockout third, if it's gimmicky enough to even consider this, we have the Blade of Realities to just say “goodbye” to *EVERY* layer of defense a character has, not just their armor. Hard pass.
Biting Blade – 10pts: Gives Armor Penetration. Unlike the above, this is cheap enough to play with a bit. Pretty much useless on a Saurus, just take a halberd or Sword of Might if you're considering it, but has a place on a Skink Chief to let him hunt tougher targets. Might be useless in some games, but in others, can make the difference between a useless Skink character and an effective assassination.
Magic Armor:
Note: The ONLY way we can ever get Heavy Armor is with magical armor, which increases the value of any magical heavy armors. It means we get the benefit of +1 to our Armor Save and whatever magic effect it has (normally a ward). You can also get +1 Armor Save with the Enchanted Shield or one of the helmets. Since two handed weapons are fairly popular we need all the +1s we can get.
Dragonhelm – 10pts: Gives a 2+ ward save against flaming attacks, as well as +1 to your armor save from the helm itself. You know it, you love it, and if you have a Scar Veteran on a Cold one or Carnosaur he will likely already be wearing it.
Enchanted Shield – 5pts: Essentially double a normal shield's effect. Cheap. Good. Definitely take it if you don't have other armor plans.
Glittering Scales – 25pts: Light armor that grant -1 to hit against attacks targetting the wearer. Fantastic choice, shores up our resilience to great levels nicely. We like this item a lot, especially since we don't do mundane heavy armor. Combos well with Fencer's Blades to make a Saurus character seriously hard to hit, on top of being tough as nails.
Armour of Destiny – 50pts: Heavy armor with 4+ ward save. We don't get mundane Heavy Armor, making all three of these next items a bit better for us, and worth taking over the amulets, if magic item allowance allows it. Rock solid choice on an Oldblood leading a Saurus block, but a proper Saurus cowboy probably wants a few more points for other slots, unless he's expecting zero magical support.
Armour of Fortune – 35pts: Heavy armor with 5+ ward. Might be nice on a BSB Scar Vet, or an Oldblood character hunter. Scar Vets really hurt for those 15 points over the next one for character hunting.
Gambler's Armor – 20pts: Heavy armor with 6+ ward. Very nice for keeping a Scar Veteran protected while still taking a good weapon, which is what you probably want anyways.
Trickster's Helm – 50pts: Causes the enemy to re-roll successful wound rolls. Also a helm, so gives +1 to an armour save. On a unit babysitting Oldblood, this turns him into a nigh unkillable monster. More mixed results as a character hunter.
Armor of Silvered Steel – 45pts: 2+ armor save which cannot be improved by any means. With scaly skin and the ability to take armour on top, it is almost worthless on Saurus. Less so on Skink Chiefs, but still almost always outclassed by Gambler's Armor and Armor of Fortune
Helm of Discord – 30pts: A helm that gives +1 to your armour save and which makes a single character, in a unit, in base contact with wearer's unit check Ld each turn. If a character fails his Ld test, he cannot attack and is hit (not wounded) automatically that turn. Not reliable enough to put on your Saurus characters... but might be worth putting on a stooge Skink Chief primarily holding another item, more for fun. Might be worth it if you're committed to leadership shenanigans, Lizardmen aren't great at it, but anything is possible with a Slann.
Shield of Ptolos – 25pts: Grants 1+ armor save against shooting. Also a shield. Your characters (especially cowboys) are definitely being shot at, but you generally want armor that will keep them alive once they actually get into combat (and they more often than not have a 1 or 2+ save anyway). Its best use is to give to a Skink Chief on a Terradon or Ripperdactyl.
Charmed Shield – 5pts: A shield which allows you to ignore the first hit suffered on a roll of 2+. Very cheap and may help a Scar Vet cowboy make it into combat.
Spellshield – 20pts: A shield with Magic Resistance (1). You are better off just getting the obsidian trinket if you want magic res that badly.
Enchanted Items
Wizarding Hat – 100pts: Makes the wearer a level 2 Wizard who uses a random school. Also your new wizard gets stupidity. The Slann spend centuries locked in deep, unending contemplation of why on earth you want this item as Lizardmen. (If he could speak, Lord Kroak would tell them the answer is if you ever play Storm of Magic, an Oldblood on a Carnosaur with this is damn near THE best way to defend an Arcane Fulcrum in the entire game. But alas, Kroak can't speak, so Slann continue to ponder in vain.)
Fozzrik's Folding Fortress – 100pts: Creates a tower during deployment. This is a janky, gimmicky item in armies that can actually use it (and is one of the items that was often banned in tournaments back in the day). We... can't really use it. For a corner case, You take a slann and kit him with what ever disciplines you want, make him BSB with the banner of discipline. For magic items you give him that folding fortress for 100 points. Now deploy him and a unit of templeguard in the fortress and blast off spells all game. No worry about miscasts/spells that use templates as they only ever hit d6 models in a building. Also they can only be charged by 1 unit at a time with only 10 models attacking. If we lose combat we are stubborn Ld 10 with cold blooded and a reroll. If you know you will be playing the Blood & Glory Scenario in a tournament, this could give you a serious advantage (and hopefully you are now seeing why this item is so often banned).
Arabyan Carpet – 50pts: The user gains fly. We have this, but cheaper for Skink Priests already. Slann are too fat to get the safety harness on, Skink Chiefs can already get flying mounts, and it is, sadly, incompatible with mounts, so alas, no flying Carnosaur that shows the enemy a whole new world of pain. Can create a flying Oldblood (consider using the Stegadon Helm if you do so), which is funny and can catch people off guard, but isn't especially good. Can be useful if you want 2 Skink priests flying around to utilise arcane vassel.
Crown of Command – 35pts: Provides Stubborn (which extends to the entire unit). Really good for us, on account of the way we use our characters. Remember that Temple Guard + Slann get it by default, as do a few of our monsters. Otherwise, damn near essential on a lone Slann, and can help a Carnosaur mangle a unit by itself, or help a flying Skink Chief survive combat to take down something essential, or even useful on a lone scar vet cowboy.
Potion of Speed – 5pts: Drink it and get +3 initiative for a turn. Dirt cheap, has a good chance of letting a Scar Veteran swing first, and frees up the weapon slot for something else. Not terrible, though mind the characters that will still outspeed you and pick targets accordingly.
Potion of Foolhardiness – 5pts: Drink it for Immunity to Psychology and Devastating Charge for a turn. Your Saurus is already probably immune to Fear at the minimum and has great Ld besides, and is already plenty killy. However, if you have a spare 5pts, you could do worse than giving this to a mounted Saurus.
Potion of Healing – 35pts: Restores d6 wounds. Has its place on a Slann not running a Lore it can heal itself with. Expensive for what it does, but if what it does is let you Slann survive to cast for one more turn, then it's worth it. Can be particularly effective on a Slann, combined with the Forbidden Rod (see Arcane items), in order to boost 1 turn of casting and mitigating the side effects. Skip it on an Oldblood, invest in survivability instead, and 100% not worth it on Heroes.
Potion of Strength – 20pts: One Use Only. +3 Strength for a turn. Can be handy on an Oldblood you want to be able to wreck a Chaos Lord in combat without magical support. If you DO have magic support for your Saurus... use it instead.
Potion of Toughness – 20pts: One Use Only. +3 Toughness for a turn. If it were a *bit* cheaper, it might be useful for keeping a Skink character alive for a turn. But as it stands, the only other case, a Slann running solo, probably wants the Crown instead. Pass.
Featherfoe Torc – 35pts: Makes flying creatures and their riders re-roll successful to hit rolls against the wearer and his unit. Too expensive for what it does. Maybe if you know you're going up against birdspam, a Skink could caddy it.
Ironcurse Icon – 5pts: Gives a 6+ ward save versus warmachine attacks for the bearer and his unit. If only we had a Character and unit that acts as a magnet for every single warmachine the opponent owns… Needless to say, if your Slann has the points after buying whatever else you want, take this. Might also be worth it on a Carnosaur mounted character, though they may have actual competition for the slot. Do note that this doesn't stack with the protection from an Engine of the Gods Stegadon. A Skink Chief or Priest can also carry it for a unit, though this isn't worth a whole Skink caddy by itself.
The Other Trickster's Shard – 15pts: Forces enemies in base contact with the bearer to re-roll successful ward saves. Yes. You want this. This is how your Saurus cowboy kills characters with layered defenses. Take it.
Ruby Ring of Ruin – 25pts: Bound spell (power level 3) Fireball. Probably not better than a Solar Engine, but can fit onto someone to burn leftover magic dice if you're running Slannless. Obviously skip it if you have a Fire or Signatures Slann.
The Terrifying Mask of EEE! – 25pts: Gives the wearer Terror, at the additional cost of disallowing allies from using this model's Ld. Would be overpriced even without the downside. Pretty bad, we have Terror at our fingertips. Only for mindgames, where you run this on a unit otherwise without Terror, so your opponent sends their units vulnerable to Terror at them, so they get afflicted by Terror, because no Lizardmen player would ever choose this item. Just as planned.
Talismans
Dragonbane Gem – 5pts: 2+ ward save against flaming attacks. Cheap, but very useful on a lone character.
Talisman of Preservation – 45pts: 4+ ward save. Useless on a Slann as he comes stock with at least this already and your Oldblood would generally want to wear the Armour of Destiny. Still has its uses, especially on an Oldblood that wants other armour. It does allow you to field 2 Scar Vet cowboys with 4+ wards.
Talisman of Endurance – 30pts: 5+ Ward Save. We usually want Armour of Fortune more, but has a reasonable price point and again, lets us pick other armours.
Talisman of Protection – 15pts: 6+ Ward Save. Completely outclassed by its armour equivalent, though the price point means it's easily layered with other armours. Not a great save but easily fits in with other items and can sometimes make the difference between your Scar Veteran living or not.
Seed of Rebirth – 10pts: 6+ Regen save. A bit cheaper and more conditional than the ToP. You are unlikely to take this.
Obsidian Lodestone – 45pts: Magic Resistance (3). A Slann wastes a point of it, but still provides maximum protection to his Temple Guard. Too expensive to be worthwhile on a Saurus, but can be caddied by a Skink.
Obsidian Amulet – 30pts: Magic Resistance (2). Death snipes are one of the best ways to hurt an embedded Slann and the Lore of Death often shows up at Tournaments, so this provides the most efficient magical protection for your Slann and his unit. This can also fit on a Saurus while still letting him do his job, or on a Skink Priest using a cheaper Arcane Item, making it much easier to actually use.
Obsidian Trinket – 15pts: Magic Resistance (1). This can fit on the Skink Priest that took your Scroll, and STILL leave room for something decent, making it easy to find a home for. It does also help your Slann’s survivability for the reasons mentioned above and is cheaper to boot so allows more room for other magic items.
Dawnstone – 25pts: Reroll failed armor saves. We can easily get 1+ or 2+ on Saurus characters, making this incredibly potent for a Saurus in a unit that simply won't die and also pretty useful on a cowboy character.
Luckstone – 5pts: Rerolling a single failed armor save. A budget version of the dawnstone. Our Saurus characters have low initiative, so this can actually make the difference between them surviving combat and killing the other guy, or dying before they throw a single hit. Ideally you have a better plan than this for surviving combat, though.
Opal Amulet – 15pts: 4+ ward save against the first wound suffered. Usually too expensive for a single use but some players do like this. Niche use if you're relying on a Skink Priest to use Arcane Vassal and cast a critical spell.
Pidgeon Plucker Pendant – 5pts: 5+ ward save against wounds caused by fliers in close combat. Normally pretty useless unless you're tailoring, though it actually has a sliver of conventional use for us. Skink Chiefs on fliers can very cheaply gain a nice bit of resilience against enemy fliers, which are reasonably likely to be what the opponent tries to use to stop him from killing whatever you want him to, while still being able to afford a good weapon or armor, or decent options for both. If on a Ripperdactyl, this plus the Shield of Ptolos, can allow your humble Skink to actually pose a very real and hard to ignore threat to characters FAR above his weight class. I wouldn't consider it on anything else, though, outside of a tailor.
Arcane Items:
This is a hotly contested category for our Slann, much more than some entire armies care about this category besides the omnipresent Dispel Scroll. Spellcasting is very important for us, our Slann are tough enough to sacrifice a lot for more spellcasting, and while already expensive, every single point put into a Slann can be repaid at a premium. The 1 item limit is likely a bigger factor than the cost, consider what your choice does for your Slann, your Lore, and your army.
Book of Ashur – 75pts: +1 to casting and dispel attempts. Useful, but very very expensive, meaning your Slann is a bit vulnerable and one-note. Better if you are planning on playing a very spammy Slann, like Lore of Signatures or even High magic. If you just want the dispel half, the Staff of Sorcery does that.
Dispel Scroll – 25pts: One Use Only. Automatically dispels something. Don't think that just because we're incredible at magic we're leaving this at home. If you ever think about not bringing it, just imagine the evil glint in the other guy's eyes as he announces Purple Sun, and you having nothing to dispel it with. You will likely have an abundance of Skink Priests, one of them can definitely hold it, and it is worth every last hide of the five Skinks sacrificed for it.
Feedback Scroll – 50pts: One Use Only. Roll a dice for each power dice rolled. On a 5+, the casting wizard takes a wound with no armor saves allowed. Unlikely to kill most wizards and uses the entire allowance of a Skink Priest. Any mage important enough to cast the kinds of spells needed to make this worth while is also probably sporting a hefty Ward Save, meaning it does even less. However, if your opponent is 6 dicing Purple Sun, you don’t have a dispel scroll left and they don’t get 2 or more 6’s, it stands a good chance of doing some damage to them. It likely won’t be your first choice but isn’t a bad one.
Scroll of Leeching – 50pts: One Use Only. Instead of dispelling, you gain dispel dice equal to the power dice used for the spell your opponent just cast. Almost worthless, even if it were half its price. Doesn't actually stop that big spell, and requires the opponent to cast multiple big spells. Your Slann can be built for spooky levels of dispel control every single turn for around the same price as this one item, that often does nothing.
Siverjir's Hex Scroll – 50pts: One Use Only. Attempt to transform a casting wizard into a toad. He has a chance to resist by testing on his wizard level. The irony and fun of this item aside, this is pretty useless, and expensive to boot. High level wizards will usually resist it, low level ones aren't worth the trouble, you can dispel well enough anyways, and your cowboys are hard at work making sure anything with a name is already dead anyway.
Scroll of Shielding – 15pts: One Use Only. Gives the target unit of enemy spell a 4+ ward save against that spell. "We have Dispel Scroll at home", more or less. Not terrible, can easily save well more than its cost in strapping lizard lads, and can fit on a Skink Priest caddying something else easily. Definately don't accept it as a substitute for your Dispel Scroll though it's an extra, throwaway, protection against something else.
Power Scroll – 35pts: One Use Only. Halves the casting value of a spell, but you can't boost it. Slann are good at making their casts, but might be handy if you desperately need to get something like Mindrazor off. Has slightly better use on a Skink Priest on Beasts that you want to be able to cast Savage Beast of Horros or Transformation of Kadon. Power Stone often accomplishes the same thing for cheaper, even with the greater miscast risk.
Earthing Rod – 25pts: One Use Only. Reroll a miscast. Might be worth taking on a Slann not taking Life or maybe Signatures. You do *not* want your 400+ point toad to croak over a miscast. Buuut... just take Soul of Stone. If you're paranoid enough to take both, spellcasting might not be for you anyways.
Trickster's Shard – 25pts: One Use Only. Can be used before a bearer's magic phase, causing a wound to each dispelling wizard on a roll of 5+ for each dispelled spell. Can be worth it on a Slann, especially one taking a cheap lore like Fire or Signatures, or with a lore that has spells an opponent MUST dispel, like Purple Sun. Your Slann is going to be casting spells at a rapid rate, and can easily fry all the wizards an army has, or else secure an uncontested turn to violate the board, either way is a win for you.
Forbidden Rod – 35pts: One Use Only. Provides D6 additional power dice, causing D3 wounds to the wizard. Actually very decent for us. Slann have a fair chance of not taking any damage at all, Slann can survive even the worst case with room to spare, and may well have ways to heal off the damage (healing potion, Transcendant healing or if using Lore of Life). Risky if the opponent has a lot of war machines trained at your frog's head (if they have them, they probably do), but can result in a devastating Magic Phase that can win a game outright.
Power Stone – 20pts: One Use Only. Gives two bonus power dice, must be used before rolling for the spell. Safer, cheaper version of the Forbidden Rod. Can make for some spooky magic phases, which you can absolutely take advantage of. Nice in the pocket of either a Slann or a Skink Priest, though your Slann likely has better options.
Wand of Jet – 35pts: One Use Only. Amounts to an additional power dice used after attempting a cast. Basically insurance on a spell. Slann shouldn't have too much problem making their casts, but can be handy on a Skink that *needs* to get off a high end spell... but the Power Stone does the same thing, more reliably, for cheaper, for the cost of potentially being wasted on that critical spell you needed to cast either way. It is a rarity in that you can decide to use it after you roll your casting dice.
Sceptre of Stability – 15pts: One Use Only. Adds a dice to a dispel attempt. Helps to ensures a dispel (in the same way that the Wand of Jet does a cast). Handy if you're running only Skink Priests, Slann are good enough at dispels to leave this at home and will likely take Becalming Cognition.
Staff of Sorcery – 35pts: +1 to every dispel attempt by the bearer. Make sure to practice your regal, dismissive hand gestures if running this and Becalming Cognition on a Slann, because you will be dispelling a lot. Half of the Book of Ashur, for half the price. It is rarely seen though because of the next item.
Channeling Staff – 15pts: Adds +1 to channeling attempts. A solid pick for most armies. For Slann it becomes an auto include if you take Harmonic Convergeance to give 3 5+ attempts to channel every turn. Cheap, cheap cost for what it provides. Don't bother if not taking Harmonic Convergeance, your Arcane Item slot is worth way more than this without the combo.
Magic Standards:
It’s again worth noting that you can only take a magic standard on your BSB or on a unit of Temple Guard, making it challenging to make the most of magic standards in this army. A banner has to be doing something big for a unit in general, to be worth it for us most of the time.
Gleaming Pennant – 5pts: Reroll one failed leadership test. Cheap, but unnecessary with our Leadership and Cold Blooded. Only if you know you're going up against Leadership shenanigans, and even then there are better choices.
Lichbone Pennant – 15pts: Provides Magic Resistance (1). Much beloved source of magic resistance. Great option if you have no better ideas, protecting our pricy Saurus from sniping spells is good. But you can get the effect via a talisman, thus saving your limited magic banner slot.
Ranger's Standard – 50pts: Ignores all difficult terrain. Very expensive and usually not worth it.
Banner of Swiftness – 15pts: +1 Move. Nice and cheap, and much appreciated on your Saurus or Temple Guard as it helps them to keep up with the faster elements of your army.
Banner of Eternal Flame – 10pts: Gives the unit Flaming Attacks. Cheap access to Flaming attacks. Definitely consider this if you don't have any other sources of fire, especially with the proliferation of nurgle armies in tournaments. Be cautious of putting it on a Saurus BSB though, since it will seriously blunt their attacks against whoever the opponent gave their Dragonhelm/dragonbane gem to. Handy on a Skink Chief.
Rampager's Standard – 55pts: Lets the unit reroll failed charges. The price means it's BSB only. Anything that extends our threat range is good, but the Banner of Swiftness very often ends up having a similar effect for a fraction of the price.
Standard of Discipline – 15pts: 1+ Ld but the unit cannot use General's bubble. A great pick on Slann or their Temple Guard. Ld 10 is nice for some spells, too.
War Banner – 35pts: +1 Combat Resolution. Can be nice on the odd Slann-less Temple Guard.
Razor Standard – 45pts: Gives Armour Penetration. Fine choice for Temple Guard to cut through the toughest armor but you do pay a premium for it.
Scarecrow Banner – 5pts: Causes fear to Flying units. Trading something we never have enough of (Magic Standards) for something we have in abundance (Fear) would be a terrible deal even without the hilarious limitation. Would almost never be worth it even if it was free.
Wailing Banner – 50pts: Causes Terror. If you really want to cause Terror bring a big dinosaur or give someone the Terrifying Mask of EEE! Way too expensive for what it brings to the table.
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Nov 28, 2022 5:53:00 GMT
Lord Kroak - 400pts
Kroak does have two glaring vulnerabilities that opponents will be quick to exploit. Not only does he have a pathetic Initiative 1, but he is also flammable. While the latter will rarely come into play given Kroak's position in a Temple Guard unit, the former is undeniably frightening; a single Purple Sun of Xereus or Pit of Shades has an incredibly high likelihood of killing Kroak outright. This actually isn't a worry at all. Kroak in a unit of Temple Guard is fully immune to spells like Purple Sun or Pit of Shades. Those spells still allow for Look Out Sir rolls, and Kroak with his Mage-Priest Palanquin special rule (just like regular Slann) automatically passes Look Out Sir rolls while in a unit of Temple Guard (as long as he is in b2b contact with at least one such model) because of their Guardians special rule.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 28, 2022 12:43:15 GMT
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Post by jamesacon on Dec 1, 2022 1:51:06 GMT
Great work Knoffles! I enjoyed reading what you have so far, look forward to the rest!
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Post by knoffles on Jan 1, 2023 12:30:50 GMT
Post 11 - Slann DisciplinesReservoir of Eldritch Energy – 20pts: Can carry over an extra Dispel Dice on the roll of a 2+ to next Magic Phase. Most of the time, a power die is worth more than a dispel die for us. Sometimes it’s not a good idea to give up dispel dice though, and it is really painful the few times your saved dice is lost. Soul of Stone – 25pts: Can add or subtract 1 to the Miscast Table results. Losing a Slann to a miscast is bad, and this mitigates nasty miscasts…to an extent. Sometimes a one point slide won't help you, sometimes a one point slide will hurt you, but on the whole this has a statistically significant boost to you that is worth the points. See POST - 13 for math-hammer on this one Becalming Cogitation – 25pts: Re-rolls its first failed dispel attempt in each Magic phase. This is very useful. On a must stop spell you have two chances to roll double 6s. Otherwise it lets you safely gamble by making dispelling attempts with a modest amount of dice. On average, I’d say a Slann with BC gets one more spell dispelled every other turn than one that does not. That’s worth the cost of a Dispel Scroll. Wandering Deliberations – 30pts: Can learn Signature Spells from all 8 battle lores. Can't use if you’ve taken the Focus of Mystery (High Magic Loremaster). The eight signatures are nothing to sneeze at and each of them benefits from the Lore Attribute. Enemy chaff is toast and most armies have monsters to cast Spirit Leech and anvils to cast Searing Doom at. Note a WD Slann well hog most of your power dice. If you take a WD Slann, you should probably not take a Solar Engine or a level two Skink priest. I certainly would advise against a second Slann (not enough PD) or Engine of the Gods (relatively little to boost). For maximum mileage you want multiple arcane vassals and as many things that produce extra power dice as you can squeeze in. If playing The End Times just take this because it will allow your Slann to know every spell of the eight battle lores. Yes, you heard right: for 30 points you get 64 spells (7 from each lore + each of the End Times spells for the BRB lores) and 4d6 dice from the powered-up Winds of Magic rolls. Harmonic Convergence – 30pts: Roll two additional dice whenever attempting to Channel Power or Dispel dice. Nearly all players seem to favor this with the Channeling Staff and with good reason. On average it’s one extra dice EVERY magic phase. There is no Slann build that can’t use this dice. Unfathomable Presence – 30pts: Can get Magic Resistance D3 each Magic Phase. Skip this one. If you are willing to spend 30 points on this you'd be better off paying the same 30pts for a guaranteed MR2 with Obsidian Amulet and get the 2+ Save against spells. The Harrowing Scrutiny – 30pts: Slann causes Terror. While it can be very good when facing low LD tarpits and chaff, as it means they might run away and not bog down your TG bunker, skink spam is already good enough at keeping things you don't want near your TG away from them. Another problem is that a Slann will almost never get the secondary Fear effect since it only affects units in base contact and a Slann should avoid being in base contact whenever possible. Transcendent Healing – 30pts: Roll a d6 for each wound Slann has lost. On a 6 he regains it. This can be used every round and costs no power dice, but it’s a bit overpriced for what it does. If your Slann has any access to Life magic (Life, High, WD) you can get healing more reliably without paying the points for this discipline. If you Slann has a Temple Guard bunker you probably won’t need to heal your Slann (and if your Slann is taking wounds because his bunker is almost dead, he is beyond Transcendent Healing). If your Slann has access to Shadow he should be able to avoid danger. If your Slann does not have a Temple Guard bunker and doesn’t have any Shadow, Life, or High Magic, then MAYBE consider taking this if you have the points. Especially if reasonably expect to be taking sporadic small numbers of wounds (such as an ethereal Slann acting like a tarpit). Focus of Mystery – 35pts: Becomes a Loremaster in High Magic. Can't take this if you have Wandering Deliberations (the 8 signature spells). High Magic is a great lore that can do a bit of everything. It has two Signatures (you get both of them with this Discipline, obviously) so you get a grand total of eight spells. Great synergy with the Lizardmen army and don't forget its Lore Attribute, Contemplation, that lets you forget a High magic spell after you cast it and roll for a new one on any other lore, which carries its Lore Attribute with it and can be swapped for the Signature. You can swap your less useful spells and tailor your list to better suit the situation during the game, so yes, it is absolutely worth it. Overall one of the best Disciplines, even more so now that Slann can't Loremaster any other lore. Higher State of Consciousness – 60pts: Slann becomes Ethereal and Unstable but can't join units. Used to be popular in 7th edition but not often used in 8th as it comes with some hefty drawbacks, limitations and a whopping price tag, so don’t take this discipline unless you have considered how your army build, lore choices, and deployment strategies address these issues. The big limitation is that you can be hurt by magic or ethereal attacks. That’s not a big deal for spells since you can take a MR item if you a really paranoid, but usually dispel dice, healing magic, and a 4+ Ward save will help you enough there. The real problem is magical ranged attacks. Dwarfs, Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven, Wood Elves, Daemons all have magical shooting attacks (I'm probably missing an army there). Many magic ranged attacks are flaming so the Dragonbane Gem isn’t a bad idea. You can also mitigate magic shooting by hanging out a few inches away from an infantry block for a 4+ look out sir. The BIGGEST danger is being charged and killed with Static Resolution. You need to have an army set up/lore choice that lets you easily keep your distance from the enemy or you need to take the Crown of Command. In fact with the Crown of Command you can deliberately charge things and have a very unorthodox tarpit unit.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 1, 2023 12:31:01 GMT
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