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Post by quenelles84 on May 13, 2023 15:28:53 GMT
A character enters combat with a unit of 3 Beasts of Nurgle, and they accept his challenge. In the challenge the character does not kill the beast, but he does win combat and the beasts fail their leadership test by 1, suffering 1 wound due to instability.
Question : is this wound against the beast in the challenge ? (Potentially killing the beast/ending the challenge)
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Post by johngg on May 13, 2023 15:48:04 GMT
A better question would be, how is the beast accepting the challenge?
<facepalm emoji>
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Post by sonofkurnos on May 13, 2023 17:23:03 GMT
A character enters combat with a unit of 3 Beasts of Nurgle, and they accept his challenge. In the challenge the character does not kill the beast, but he does win combat and the beasts fail their leadership test by 1, suffering 1 wound due to instability. Question : is this wound against the beast in the challenge ? (Potentially killing the beast/ending the challenge) Is a nurgle beast a character? Or, can the unit take a champion? If the answer to either of these is 'no', then it's a null point as they couldn't be in a challenge in the first place 🤷 |
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Post by rahotep75 on May 13, 2023 18:30:55 GMT
Beasts of Nurgle have the attention seeker rule, which allows them to accept and issue challenges as if they were champions.
Daemonic Instability says the unit takes the test, with the unit taking wounds. As mentioned in the multiple threads about multi wound models, specific models don’t take wounds, just the unit. The exception would be champions and characters. The beasts act like champs, but they aren’t.
In this instance, the unit would have 1 wound on it, and in since unit wounds roll over from the unit onto the champ, but not vice versa, in the next round, if the opponent did 3 in the challenge, the beast would be slain, and there would no longer be any spare wounds.
EDIT: If after the instability test, the unit has taken enough wounds to kill a model, then a model would die. You wouldn’t have several wounds separately on one beast and then one wound separately on the unit.
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Post by johngg on May 13, 2023 19:08:54 GMT
Ahh, i knew i was missing something..
Id say that since, in a challenge, you have to direct all hits to the model you are in a challenge with, and that until someone dies youre effectively stuck in combat with that model.
Which kinda makes the OP redundant.
Unless im missing something?
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Post by thegoat on May 15, 2023 11:05:20 GMT
I think the wound from the challenge is assigned to the unit as a whole. The Beast of Nurgle in the challenge is still only a rank and file model. There is no reason to keep track of his wounds separately.
The wound from demonic instability would add to the wound from the challenge and kill a Beast via the regular rules. ie. One of the Beasts of Nurgle not in the challenge.
If I were games mastering and this came up, I would probably have the Beast in the challenge die. As I think it makes more sense. But that would be via house rule.
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Post by johngg on May 15, 2023 15:40:14 GMT
I think the wound from the challenge is assigned to the unit as a whole. The Beast of Nurgle in the challenge is still only a rank and file model. There is no reason to keep track of his wounds separately. The wound from demonic instability would add to the wound from the challenge and kill a Beast via the regular rules. ie. One of the Beasts of Nurgle not in the challenge. If I were games mastering and this came up, I would probably have the Beast in the challenge die. As I think it makes more sense. But that would be via house rule. Soooo you'd rule against yourself?! |
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Post by thegoat on May 15, 2023 15:58:08 GMT
I think the wound from the challenge is assigned to the unit as a whole. The Beast of Nurgle in the challenge is still only a rank and file model. There is no reason to keep track of his wounds separately. The wound from demonic instability would add to the wound from the challenge and kill a Beast via the regular rules. ie. One of the Beasts of Nurgle not in the challenge. If I were games mastering and this came up, I would probably have the Beast in the challenge die. As I think it makes more sense. But that would be via house rule. Soooo you'd rule against yourself?! Obeying strictly to the letter of the rules is not always the funnest way to play the game. I provided both answers. If playing by strict rule interpretation is essential to you, use the first answer. If you want to have fun while playing the game, use the second. |
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Post by ryryak2 on May 15, 2023 16:21:19 GMT
my question is:
If you were in the challenge, why wouldn't you allocate the wound from the enemy character on to the Beast that's in the challenge with him?
Then, when instability comes around, you would apply those wounds to models that are already wounded first right?
Hence, the model that is in the challenge would be removed, as wounded models are removed as casualties first.
I believe this is what Johngg was trying to say up above
EDIT: I believe it works this way because there are no "unit champions" in a unit of beasts, it's a unit consisting of models with the same profile, they just can accept and issue challenges; hence casualties would need to be pulled from wounded models first, as is the norm for units consisting of multi-wound models.
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Post by thegoat on May 15, 2023 19:03:02 GMT
my question is: If you were in the challenge, why wouldn't you allocate the wound from the enemy character on to the Beast that's in the challenge with him? Then, when instability comes around, you would apply those wounds to models that are already wounded first right? Hence, the model that is in the challenge would be removed, as wounded models are removed as casualties first. I believe this is what Johngg was trying to say up above EDIT: I believe it works this way because there are no "unit champions" in a unit of beasts, it's a unit consisting of models with the same profile, they just can accept and issue challenges; hence casualties would need to be pulled from wounded models first, as is the norm for units consisting of multi-wound models. In 8th edition unsaved wounds on multi-wound rank and file models are allocated to the unit as a whole until there are enough wounds to kill a model. Only then do you determine which model takes the wounds (and dies). Individual rank and file models don't exist in a "wounded" state. |
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Post by johngg on May 15, 2023 19:07:20 GMT
'Strictly speaking" Goat is right. However with a lil common sense, which he deploys, its obvious that dishing wound to the unit when in a challenge wiuld mean, in effect an almost immortal champion contender and would be;
1) rediculous, and
2) loooooong
Fortunately there are a couple of pointers very early in the rulebook which help
Aand if your opponent is hellbent on interpreting the rules like a D1ck, then you are totally within your rights to quote the universal 'Rule 1'
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 138
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Post by simon on May 22, 2023 8:26:28 GMT
In answer to OPs question I would say no. I don't have my book to hand but I believe the wording of the rule is they issue and accept challenges 'as if they were unit champions', so any other damage to the unit would not affect the model in the challenge until it's the last model remaining. So you could potentially have a situation where you are recording wounds lost on a model in the unit and wounds lost to the (temporary) unit champion model.
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Post by johngg on May 22, 2023 12:33:39 GMT
In answer to OPs question I would say no. I don't have my book to hand but I believe the wording of the rule is they issue and accept challenges 'as if they were unit champions', so any other damage to the unit would not affect the model in the challenge until it's the last model remaining. So you could potentially have a situation where you are recording wounds lost on a model in the unit and wounds lost to the (temporary) unit champion model. It's always good to read through the thread to prevent yourself from parrotting a previous commnent, you'll also see we've moved on a bit. |
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simon
Full Member
Posts: 138
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Post by simon on May 22, 2023 16:30:25 GMT
Which comment did I 'parrot' ?
If you read it carefully you will see that I am disagreeing, wholly or partially, with all the previous answers to the question.
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Post by johngg on May 22, 2023 19:51:16 GMT
Which comment did I 'parrot' ? If you read it carefully you will see that I am disagreeing, wholly or partially, with all the previous answers to the question. clearly not... |
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