nasher
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I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 15, 2024 4:15:42 GMT
So for a first game, which I'm yet to have. this is my list and it tries a bit of everything. Black Orc Warboss Wyvern Trollhide Trousers Da Choppiest Choppa Charmed Shield (cause s +5 one off ward is good). Not just because he is cost effective, but it gives you options you don't get otherwise. Like any tank you need supporting troops to aid my Warboss so I've taken along for the ride. 2 x Goblin Chariots 7 Wolf Boys w Cavalry spears and Short bows. * Musician, Reserve Move and feign flight.
*Lead by a Goblin Big Boss - Wolf, Light armour & Shield and Ruby Ring.
This is where you can M9 magic the Ruby Ring then M9 back to within 6" of the Warboss take advantage of Quell Impetuosity. Is this unit going to die, most likely unless you're smart, and the longer you keep them alive, the smarter it'll become. IMO.
So while Warboss and his pet Wyvern fly up to the enemies battle line with chariots and wolfboys in tow. The trundles along behind him in the form of Goblins. Yup Goblins and 35-36 blocks of the 6 wide- 6 deep. 35 Goblins Light Armour Shields and Full Command. Their job is to be cheap, pin and not die to much to quick which is why no spears. This is the anvil so when they go in, the enemy is outnumbered 2 - 1 and are more likely to break and flee. That's what you want IMO. Along with the 35 Goblins in support or on the front line is. A unit of night Goblins lead by a Night Goblin Oddnob 3rd level. So I want a good chance for my spells to get off and let us not fluff around, I want Itchy Nuisance to go off, and have counter spell mage right where he's needed. 35 Night Goblins (6 wide - 6 deep) - Shield, netters & 3 x Fanatics. Full command
So this is the stuff that goes in and just attacks or get smacked around. The trick is to see where I can create opportunities to put my opponents under pressure. The other flank.
16 Black Orcs - (4wide - 4 deep) Plate armour 4xGW, 4x Additional Hand wps and shield 8x Hand wps Shields. Veterans, Full command.
7 boar Boys Big'Uns - Cavalry Spear, Shield, Heavy armour, Full Command.
I want a BSB and while a Black Orc would be better, it don't fit with in with the special rules "Da Boyz" So I have taken an
Orc Bigboss - boar Heavy Armour Shield BSB. "I'm keeping the crazy to last " so the army is light on magic, loads of hero's cause I'm trying to pack in a LOT. The Bigboss Waaagh off, making the Boar Boyz a tad good on that turn it works. It adds some striking range that an all infantry army lacks on the charge and movement is the key to wining any game IMO.
The Crazy. 16 Savage Orc Big'uns Full command, additional hand weapons, skirmishes.
But wait, there's more, I've included into those savage Orcs Orc Wierdnob 4th level with a Lore Familiar. Battle magic. Spells of which are Hammerhand for assailment which I'm sure he'll be getting into. Oaken Shield for the 5+ ward. Arcane Urgency so the Boar Boyz can be right up there and so can any other unit of mine. Fireball for a bit of range attacks.
Is it a good list, is it bad, I'll let you soon enough, but I just love the crazy you can do with O&G lists.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 25, 2024 3:10:20 GMT
Ok so I managed to get my first game in vs Ben and his Brettonians. Ben took most of the forces he has available which were. So instead of running a battle report I'll run through my impressions of the rules how things went as it was basically a learning game for BEN vs my list above. Lord on Horsey BSB Prophetess 4th level Damsel 2nd level 3x 10 KOTR 3X 10 Peasant Bowmen 2x 5 Mounted Yeomen 3 Pegasus DEPLOYMENT: Still important as Ben deployed all but a unit of Bowmen and yeomen on one of his flanks, and this allowed my Boar Boys to move up his exposed flank with the Orc Wierdnob conveyancing. At this stage I should have made a plan for my Wyvern to move up and behind the enemies lines. Both him and the chariots are far less manoeuvrable. Which I like, but you have to use what brains you have to make monsters work. As it was neither wyvern or Chariots did much to impact the game, and that's 500pts or 25% of the army doing diddle squat. Ben's large 10 strong KOTR units were a bit unwieldy as well, he used them well enough to cover my wyverns advance while keeping the Pegasus knights in reserve to shadow my wyvern (Pawpaw) which is a great move. Unfortunately for him he shadowed Pawpaw to my right and the Boar boys moved up on his exposed left. COMBAT: "There is a certain quality in quantity" My observation is, goblins die just as easily to STR6 WS4 attacks as orcs. So my army advanced, the goblins weren't happy about this but what are "my late dinner snacks going to do about it" hmmm. Anyways. The following turn we move up again, and the Boar boys zoom around the left flank with the Orc Wierdnob conveyancing them FOR TWO turns. So much of a threat the Pegasus knights come by and plant themselves in front to stop a rear charge into the Lords unit. It's a good way for Ben to get a feel for how strong his Pegasus knights are. Again a learning game. The Lord in his lance with the Prophetess she gets of some magic. The Goblins get smashed and fall back in good order, do the FREE reform, from 6x6 to 5x5. The following turn we find out what happens when 5 Boar Boys (lost 2 to shooting) and a BSB with the Waaggh and a unit of Black Orcs in the flank do to a unit of Pegasus. They died, they all died. Lesson learnt. The Issue was I had wheeled my charge into skirmishing Pegasus, they have to form up on me, so I could over run into the rear of his Lords unit beating up poor defenceless goblins. Can't have that, that's an Orcs job. We then successfully overran into the Lords vs Goblins combat. I hope the Lord enjoys surprise but $@x, caus he got it. This blunted the Brettonians lance and forced a reform to regular ranks. The Lord smacked the BSB to death "just", and the Brettonians dually lost combat and fled. Again having 25 Goblins allowed the combat to win by outnumbering the opponent over 2-1. Otherwise this is where you end up in protracted combats. OBSERVATION: This is where I think the game is at, you have to coordinate multiple combats and moves to get good wins, or any wins. Ben could have not move the Pegasus in such a way as to guarantee an overrun into the Lords unit from the boar boys. Also the fast cav could have interposed between the Boar boys earlier. Life is all about lessons, they repeat till you learn. Next time it'll be tougher. So in this case the Lord unit flees from the biggest unit, through the Boar Boys and each figure takes a wound on a 4+ fleeing through enemy. They flee 17", but the Boar Boys get a free pivot and pursue only needing an 8" move which they easily do with swift stride.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 25, 2024 3:26:05 GMT
CONTINUE:
MAGIC: So the prophetess and damsel managed to get off a number of spells. The pillar of fire was most annoying vortex as he moved it across the Wyvern twice (Pawpaw)Doing 4 wounds with STR3 (vs T6) -2 AP. Not that it mattered but it could have and I also janked it by making 3 regeneration with the Trollhide Trousers saves. Yes Flaming attacks don't auto remove regeneration. It was tough to remove as the damsel who cast it was out of the wizardly dispel range. Hmmm. The Orc Wierdnob with the savage orcs did finally fireball the peasant archers etc off the board, but not being able to march and cast missile weapons is difficult to use and will take time to work out. On the other hand the conveyancing won the game, with help from Ben. The Goblin Big Boss on wolf with his Ruby Ring, was very uneventful, but he was able to make a reserve move in and out with the wolves. It did little this time, rolling 8+ for fireball seemed difficult and could be easily dispelled. Magic resistance will only make this item harder to use. The Night Goblin failed to do much except dispel, and get Itchy Nuisance off on the Pegasus Knights. Casting with only 15" range is difficult. Doubly so if you can't cast into combat. People going on about magic missile armies, while can be critical to a win, meh not enough to warrant it as a meta IMO.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 25, 2024 3:51:25 GMT
MORE: well since you asked so nicely.
FANATICS/NET/NIGHT GOBLINS: yes the fanatics came out after the Lord, being next to the goblins, well one of three did as two died rolling doubles. Unless it says somewhere fanatics don't die when rolling doubles first turn. Now they did kill a few of the KOTR although a wards saves did stop a couple. The little bugger was so efficient he went off and killed 6 savage orcs later on. (use's ate mamma gggrrr) Netters are good usually but vs STR6 meh. The night goblins are good as the Goblin Oddnob get illusion spells, which have some nifty things that stop nasty lance formations from charging you. I'll have to try the Waagh magic at some point though.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 25, 2024 3:52:32 GMT
SHOOTING: Nah
Well OK shooting was reasonably effective for the Brettonians, knocked off wounds from boar boys, and goblin chariots, while in return the wolf boys were pretty ineffective. It may pay to have a 5+ save on the wolf boys instead of any shooting.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Feb 25, 2024 4:11:26 GMT
The Wyvern: well in the end Pawpaw needs nomnom, and off he went to charge the vanilla lance with the Waaggh. Ben debated weather to challenge or not, he did manage a counter charge and we went with no challenges booo. It did not go well for the food in tin cans. Not that they lost by much, but lose they did and it was all over in the second round of combat. That pretty much is where the game ended. Pawpaw - nomnom.
THOUGHTS: It's Warhammer, it plays well, really well IMO. You'll have to play smart to win, and big nasties, monsters, units or hero's do not guarantee wins. Like some games. If you're getting bogged down, then you're doing something wrong. MSU will work, big blocks of troops will work, peasants work, infantry works, magic works, everything works it's really good. Just you putting a list together that works and making it do so, now that's going to be tricky. So good luck, may the dice goods bless you.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 4, 2024 15:04:02 GMT
Game 2 O&G vs Skaven I played an old friend which I mean I first starting playing Matt back in 1990. Yeah.
Anyway's I took another list of O&G to try things out.
Orc Warboss - Hvy Ar; Sh; Trollhide trousers; Choppiest Choppa - So not a Black Orc, well couple of things about a regular Orc Warboss. He has Warband unlike Black Orcs so can go to Ld. 10. Plus I can make him as good as a BO. Nearly. Also what's my role, to fight, so who cares about impetuous. Black Orc Bigboss - Plate Ar; Sh; BSB; Boar - Now I want something mobile giving my boar Boyz a hand and in this case the Ld 8 is better then I would get with regular Orc Big Boss. Since he's traveling ahead of the Generals Ld Goblin Bigboss - L Ar; Wolf; Cav Sp; Ruby Ring Same reason as last, but I'm going to say, nah and give the Ruby Ring a miss. IMO there are better cost opportunities out there. Night goblin Oddnob 4th - Illusion - Buzgobs Staff; so I like this lore and it proved good in this game, having your casters in big units can work. In this game it was a winner Orc Wierdnob 4th - Battle magic; Lore Familiar; oh yeah, my shaman was in a big unit of Orcs and Warboss.
So two level 4 mages are good to cheesy, without doubt. I'll have to do a game without mages (or just a level 2) and see how it pans out. it'll free up a ton of points.
16 Black Orcs - Full Command; Stubborn; 4xGW; 12xAddHdWp - More attacks = double plus good.
30 Orcs - Light armour; Sh; Full Command; The Big Red Raggedy Banner. (+1WS & +1 Combat resolution)
2 x Boar Chariots
8 Wolf Boyz (Skirmished) - Light Ar; Sh; Cav Spear; reserve move; Muso - Boss. The goblin Big Boss goes into this unit.
7 Boar Boyz Big'Uns - Hvy Ar; Sh; Cav Sp; Muso Boss
Rock lobber - meh
35 Night Goblins - HdWp; Sh; Full Command; Netters; 3xFanatics.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 4, 2024 15:12:31 GMT
OK so two games in and I'm an expert - NOT. Matts taken a Grey Sear, level 2 mage; BSB with magical banner gives you 1d3 bonus combat resolution 2 x 30 Clan rats + rattling Guns 30 x Storm Vermin + mini doom flayer wheeler thingy 6 rat Ogres Abomination 2 x 15 Giant rats That's it.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 4, 2024 15:24:14 GMT
So deployment-
- Well Matts deployed to the centre and his left flank was open, you know what's going to happen here, huh. Two games in and it's already old. I put the Boar Boyz ready to move up on the exposed flank. Which they did and conveyanced them up to threaten his infantry flanks. Meanwhile on the other side the Abomination, Rat Ogres lines up against the Black orcs and Night goblins.
OK so why is deployment so important. The trick with Conveyancing will confront everyone, with people putting into your face a unit that is going to be problematic. Even without conveyancing, dragons/monsters or large bus like cavalry units, maxed out to the hilt with banners, magics and hero's. Can and will move straight at you. How are you going to deal with that. Deployment offers you a first chance at dealing with these issues. Do you park an sacrificial offering opposite those threats. Or do you set up a trap, some counter to challenge your opponents, say, 3 flying mage ridden High Elf chariots. How are you going to design an army that counters all comers and still works on the battle field. Having a number of chaff units that can counter annoying threats and help win the deployment are keys to wining, before the game begins IMHO.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 5, 2024 3:30:17 GMT
Magic
Vortex's, Matt managed to get the flaming pillar of do a few wounds and kill a couple of Night Goblins. He was pretty excited about having a number of vortex options from the Cloud of Pestilence, which gave everyone a -1T, Vortex of chaos, and Pillar of "Meh" Fire. At the end of the game, which went 4 turns before he conceded, he said that they didn't accomplish much. My Goblin fanatics on the other hand managed to run through the Abomination and do nothing, while another destroyed a boar chariot and 6 night goblins. Matt rather liked fanatics after that. Anyways I digress. My vortex the column of crystal on the other hand which blocked line of sight and movement is perhaps better. In that it does it's job, if it remains in play. It stops charges as does Miasmic Mirage from the same lore. While killing a few goblins out of a horde is satisfying. Battles are games of manoeuvre and stopping your opponent from moving is as good as winning. It also allows your wizard to approach within the critical 15" distance to cast such spells as Itchy Nuisance without being charged. So Itchy was dispelled casting on the abomination, the assailment spell was game wining for the Night Goblin Oddnob. Matt out for revenge finally got his rat Ogres into combat against the NG unit, yeah Matt. Had to run through a Fanatic but in like Flynn. yeah ha baby, as well his giants rat charged in one. Rat ogres had that nasty nasty Oddnob all lined up for the kill. Matt made the correct decision to try and kill him. Oddnob has WS4 T4 3W no save, rat ogres and whip handlers 6 and 3 attacks respectively, with a -1 strength due to successful netting. In total Matt inflicted 2 wounds. Oddnob then gets off Spectral Doppelganger, not countered just. 11 hits - 6 wounds on rat ogres. A bit of arse goes a long way at times. In this case the skaven units both broke and driven off the table. That ladies and gentlemen is MAGIC. Literally. What makes it reasonable is it's NOT guaranteed, spells can be countered or not cast at all, and that makes MAGIC interesting, not broken IMO.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 5, 2024 3:40:24 GMT
Shooting - Nah Ok so the rattling guns managed to get off some 42 shots at range on the Boar chariot, inflicting 3 wounds of which I saved one. You gotta love T5 on Chariots, Matt was not impressed. The Ruby Ring was pretty meh again, and the rock lobber also meh. Both did some wounds, but on big blocks of troops, it's good but far far from overpowered. Well so far two games, in so all is not lost. I feel confident that shooting is good. In some parallel universe, somewhere in a Galaxy far far away. I will look to do a Dwarf army with an all hand gun and x-bows infantry at some time.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 5, 2024 4:00:34 GMT
Combat - Pawpaw Nomnom
Well pawpaw is not with us today, but the Boar Boyz were back. After a double move on Matts exposed flank he turned the clan rats to face and was promptly charged in the face with a WAAAGHHH successfully going off. Rerolls of natural 1's to hit (and wound with the Choppa rule). A lucky 13 Clan rats died. Meanwhile Matt a student of the art of war had sent sacrificial Giant Rats forward to slow the main body of Orcs and NG horde. By placing them directly in front of said units. So a turn was spent, wasted, chasing them off. The Black Orcs were not so lucky at the abomination moved in for a feast. The Column of Crystal had been successfully dispelled. So in went the BO, up against the abomination, what could go wrong. Well 4 wounds on the abomination and 9 dead BO later it could be said that template attack by the abomination is rather nasty folks. Stubborn was my friend, and after another few rounds where the unit champion was missed by the attacks. It came down to him and the abomination alone on one wound. The abomination had I1 1d3+1 stomp attacks and the champion a GW - both striking last, and fittingly both killed each other at the same time failing all our saves. Rather a high point I thought, being so entertainment. After this the Rat Ogres were knocked off in a slightly surprising result I must confess, the Boar Boyz had cleaned up the Clan rats and were chasing them off the table and threatening Matt Storm vermin in the rear. While I cast successfully Miasmic Mirage on the Storm Vermin so I could move the Orc Warboss and Orcs up to charge in first. Which they did successfully on the following turn and where we called time on the game.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 5, 2024 4:28:42 GMT
My thoughts You're going to need to deal with things on your flanks and rear. Cause things fly and move quickly. In war it's either you dictate the game or they do it to you. Or a third way is you both do a bit of dictating. I think a rear guard sweep of some fast cavalry skirmishes, with a hero could put a real dampener on people wanting to move annoying things to vulnerable flank positions. Holding back chariots which intercept flight movements with a wizard on board can be rather effective. Skirmishing archers also, but are also vulnerable. The thing with a sweep as I call it, is you should also be able to use it a s a threat. You also want to win deployment, have a plan on how to deal with big nasties in any shape, and the smaller nasties like singular Dragon Ogres or HE flying chariots. The thing to remember is the opponent who uses these forces opts out of other choices and has similar issues building an army. So while they may have these unit they have weaknesses as well. So while a Lord on a Dragon at 500pts is a nightmare the opportunity cost/loss to bolster units elsewhere can give you a path to victory. Battles are won with the use of force at the right time. In TOW more so then anyother IMO.
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 5, 2024 4:29:39 GMT
An old opponent and friend has a blog which he's restarted on TOW, a good game and somewhat unexpected win. Swordmaster Battle Report
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nasher
Junior Member
I didn't attend the funeral but I sent a nice letter saying, "I approve of it".
Posts: 74
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Post by nasher on Mar 6, 2024 6:29:07 GMT
Know you enemy, know your game plan, know your rules and theirs as well. Yes know your rules and theirs especially . At present the web is full of TOW presenters and podcasters doing battle reports, and getting the rules wrong. If the average Jo YouTuber can't get it right, players are certainly not going to get it right, intentional or unintentional. So in my Game Matt had the abomination on a 50mm wide base and told me I wasn't allowed the additional attacks, cause Orcs are on 30mm and only 3 could go HtH, not the 4. He was wrong, it's was 60mm. Which meant I actually lost 2 attacks on the charge with the BO and I had already rolled up a wound on the abomination. It would have killed the abomination a combat earlier. Not the end of the world, but little things can make a difference. So I would suggest to those with a competitive mind set, read up on your opponents rules and lists. Otherwise have fun. In fact have fun regardless, it is a game folks.
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