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Post by Anaris on Mar 13, 2017 15:59:36 GMT
Not a hold over for us, 4+ is the standard save for chariots such as lion, beastmen and orc. 5+ is a special reduced save for the flimsier movement 9 chariots of high elves and goblins as well as the tomb kings chariot legions. Settra's Chariot of the Gods only has a 4+ armor save. The 3+ is a special save for the sturdiest chariots of all including chaos with their barded mounts and iirc the cold one chariots with their thickened skin being the equivalent of barding. ...Then there are the feared and incomparable Gorebeast chariots..... One day it will be painted and ready to field.... One day.... Ok thanks for that break down. But also look at it from this. Goblins and horse high elf chariot riders wear light armor right? +1. Mounted +1 for a 5+ armor save. The lion chariot the riders have heavy armor for +2, mounted +1 for a 4+ save. Orc boar chariot, riders light armor +1, boar thick skin +2 for a 4+ save Warriors of Chaos Chariot riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. Gore beast chariot out of the same book, the riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. If the chaos chariot is barded it should be 2+ armor save. Love your Gore beast chariot by the way, the beast men look way more appropriate.
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Post by Anaris on Mar 13, 2017 16:02:12 GMT
No barding listed in the rules - so it's move 7 (and armor save 3+) The armor saves for the chariots in books released in 8th (not beastmen) reflect the armor save of the troops +1 for being mounted +a possible extra bonuses for certain mounts. As noted if the horses were 'per the rules' barded then the chaos chariot would be 2+ armor save (Warriors chaos armor is 4+, mounted gets you to 3+) Did you mean move 8 not 7? You seem to be in support of what I'm trying to say but looks like a typo lol
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Post by Anaris on Mar 13, 2017 16:10:56 GMT
I took it as a given that the chaos horses had barding as they always have barding. I honestly never really even considered the possibility of them being the fastest chaos horses? I don't have my WOC book in front of me but if a lord/hero takes a Chaos steed doesn't it come with barding? It doesn't make sense for the chariot pulling chaos steeds to be the only ones faster than all their other horses. I just assumed chaos steeds meant barded chaos steeds or GW had made one of their far too common accidental omissions or boo boos. I remember the GW store guy who played WOC describing it as "chaos horses are the toughest horses in the game and the best equipped and armored". He played them movement 7 so I just took it as given once I eventually started collecting a limited WOC army. That's a implication, that's neither RAI or RAW. Also come on dude really? Your using a GW employee as a reference? When has GW ever been reliable or accurate? Lolol.
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Post by askaval30 on Mar 13, 2017 16:36:02 GMT
Long time WoC player here, have done M7 for years and it felt right... steeds might be without barding, but dragging that heavy, spiked metallic monstrosity behind them must have accounted for something right? of course I understand the perils implicit in using the fluff as a mechanical explanation, but still...
then again we might have been playing it wrong all these years which would be... unfortunate to say the least!
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 13, 2017 16:42:02 GMT
No barding listed in the rules - so it's move 7 (and armor save 3+) The armor saves for the chariots in books released in 8th (not beastmen) reflect the armor save of the troops +1 for being mounted +a possible extra bonuses for certain mounts. As noted if the horses were 'per the rules' barded then the chaos chariot would be 2+ armor save (Warriors chaos armor is 4+, mounted gets you to 3+) Did you mean move 8 not 7? You seem to be in support of what I'm trying to say but looks like a typo lol yes I meant move 8 whoops fixed!
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Post by Horace on Mar 13, 2017 16:53:34 GMT
Indeed, the chariot is listed as armour save 3+ in the army book and it says is simply pulled by 2 Chaos Steeds. This implies there is no barding
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 13, 2017 17:09:49 GMT
Not a hold over for us, 4+ is the standard save for chariots such as lion, beastmen and orc. 5+ is a special reduced save for the flimsier movement 9 chariots of high elves and goblins as well as the tomb kings chariot legions. Settra's Chariot of the Gods only has a 4+ armor save. The 3+ is a special save for the sturdiest chariots of all including chaos with their barded mounts and iirc the cold one chariots with their thickened skin being the equivalent of barding. ...Then there are the feared and incomparable Gorebeast chariots..... One day it will be painted and ready to field.... One day.... Ok thanks for that break down. But also look at it from this. Goblins and horse high elf chariot riders wear light armor right? +1. Mounted +1 for a 5+ armor save. The lion chariot the riders have heavy armor for +2, mounted +1 for a 4+ save. Orc boar chariot, riders light armor +1, boar thick skin +2 for a 4+ save Warriors of Chaos Chariot riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. Gore beast chariot out of the same book, the riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. If the chaos chariot is barded it should be 2+ armor save. Love your Gore beast chariot by the way, the beast men look way more appropriate. All chaos steeds are barded and movement 7 imo. I'd argue that the rules are Raw as the steeds (barded) are listed as equipment for the chariot, the steeds themselves unworthy of a separate equipment mention. I'll need to take a look at my WOC book when I have the chance to read the chariot/steed entries and see how the steeds are treated. If it is possible to field an un-barded chaos steed for knights or heroes I might rethink my position about then always having barding. I merely brought up my GW guy as that was my first exposure to chaos chariots and I remember him talking about how beast chaos horses were in general! I don't see the rider armor itself as being relevant. Chariot armor 4+ standard with +1 for either being of sturdy chaos build or being pulled by sturdy barded chaos steeds is how I see it.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 13, 2017 17:12:55 GMT
Not a hold over for us, 4+ is the standard save for chariots such as lion, beastmen and orc. 5+ is a special reduced save for the flimsier movement 9 chariots of high elves and goblins as well as the tomb kings chariot legions. Settra's Chariot of the Gods only has a 4+ armor save. The 3+ is a special save for the sturdiest chariots of all including chaos with their barded mounts and iirc the cold one chariots with their thickened skin being the equivalent of barding. ...Then there are the feared and incomparable Gorebeast chariots..... One day it will be painted and ready to field.... One day.... Ok thanks for that break down. But also look at it from this. Goblins and horse high elf chariot riders wear light armor right? +1. Mounted +1 for a 5+ armor save. The lion chariot the riders have heavy armor for +2, mounted +1 for a 4+ save. Orc boar chariot, riders light armor +1, boar thick skin +2 for a 4+ save Warriors of Chaos Chariot riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. Gore beast chariot out of the same book, the riders have chaos armor for +3, mounted +1 for a 3+ save. If the chaos chariot is barded it should be 2+ armor save. Love your Gore beast chariot by the way, the beast men look way more appropriate. Btw thanks for the Gorebeast chariot props, appreciate it. I'll use it with modified rules for the beastmen riders. Gorebeast is a great fit with them....Just look at the name, Gore....Beast! So they only have a 3+ save, I mentioned them separately as I thought they had a 1+ or 2+ lol... Shows I need my WOC book with me....
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Mar 13, 2017 20:55:38 GMT
I thought that the armor save was inherent to the model and not dependent on barding, etc. Warrior chariots are badass metal constructions and have 3+...irrelevant to save is the fact that they are or are not armored. In this case they are not armored because it says "chaos steeds". Anyone telling you different is probably looking at the old chariot models and saying that since the horses came with barding...
I think GW got this right because there is enough plate on their new plastic chariot steeds to look chaos-y but not enough to confuse them as barded. The models are clearly not barded.
Movement 8.
Save 3+
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Post by avatarofbugman on Mar 13, 2017 21:28:02 GMT
The chariot steed is not slowed by barding to M-1. It is allowed by the weight of the chariot to the point that it can't march move.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Mar 13, 2017 21:33:02 GMT
I often use my chariots next to a unit of Chaos Knights. Chaos Knights move 7 and I always moved my chariots 7 as well. Oh, all the charges that I would have made instead of missed with that extra +1 pip of movement. #Regrets #AlmostThere
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Post by avatarofbugman on Mar 13, 2017 21:36:43 GMT
I often use my chariots next to a unit of Chaos Knights. Chaos Knights move 7 and I always moved my chariots 7 as well. Oh, all the charges that I would have made instead of missed with that extra +1 pip of movement. #Regrets #AlmostThere That stinks.
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Post by KevinC on Mar 13, 2017 22:59:14 GMT
Hi all,
For what it's worth, I always believed they removed barding from all chariot equipment intentionally in 8th edition. If fact I don't believe any chariot model in 8th edition states that the steeds have barding. The Imperial War Alter always had barding as well, but no more.
In order editions, players who were not astute to the rules had no idea that their chariots suffered -1M due to barding.
I think it was a good design move.
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Post by Naitsabes on Mar 14, 2017 6:46:22 GMT
I can't get past the sleeping kids to look at the army book myself. But, that is quite interesting. I guess the older edition-derived false assumption held all the way through 8th for us locally then. And, my Empire war altar is getting a speed boost as well!?!
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Post by Horace on Mar 14, 2017 9:26:51 GMT
It certainly is an interesting one. I was just reading the chariot section of the rule book and it says this: But I guess since barding is not specifically listed in the army book entry the movement is not slowed. Slightly bizarre the speed differential between a Chaos Steed carrying a Chaos Knight with barding, and one lugging a Chariot, but I suppose there is at least 2 of them pulling a chariot.
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