Knoffles Battle Reports

For those games showing with the tag SELWG 2016 WFB Comp, these were played as part of our in-house club tournament (2500pts) and there were a few restrictions on selections in place including only being able to take a max of:

Up to 3 units and/or characters classified as Monster

Up to 3 units and/or characters with AS 1+

Up to 3 units and/or characters with the Flyer special rule

No Wizards with the Flying special rule (including mounts)

Up to 5 war machines / engineers / war machines upgrades / models with war machine weapons (such as Ironblasters, Gyrocopters, Hellcannons)
. Note: Each individual dwarf rune counted towards this total, so a cannon with rune of forging would count as 2 choices.
No 4+ Wound MC / MB units with 17+ wounds

No other Cv or MC units with 16+ wounds

No other units with 40+ wounds.


The following composition restrictions apply:

Lords and Heroes    Up to 50%             No double Lords; no triple heroes

Core                      At least 25%

Special                  Up to 50%             No triples

Rare                     Up to 25%              No doubles

Playing dwarves I was a bit put out, especially with the runes counting towards the war machine restrictions. Counting gyros with flame cannons as warmachines too felt a bit harsh. I know the Empire players felt the same. However one of the reasons for the comp was to try and get players taking something different. The previous year, with fewer restrictions, we had the normal Alarielle/white lion deathstars etc. But in battle you don't always have all the tools to choose from so after the initial grumble it was quite good to have the challenge.
For the second group stage I decided to handicap myself further and bamboozle my opponents by using Beastmen, an army that I had never played before the comp (I'll update those later). Sometimes my genius amazes even myself.
8th is definitely flagging a bit at the club though, as the comp normally finishes by March and the final is still to be played (High Elf vs Ogre).

Below is the list I ended up taking for the second stage of the competition, together with the reasons for taking the list (you could change armies and/or your initial lists for the 2nd group stage but would miss out on 15 bonus points - 5pts if you changed your list but kept the same army and 10pts if you completely changed the faction). This number of points equalled what you would get for a straight out win in a game (you could get a maximum of 25 points in a game, 15 for a win, 10 for a draw and 5 for a loss with secondary objectives worth 7pts and bonuses for fully painted armies etc). So this, together with it being my first outing with Beastmen and qualifying in the top group may have put me at a slight disadvantage off the bat (excuses, excuses  ).

In March I did a 'state of play' of my Beastmen and pictures of most of the army can be found here

The Herd of Khazbar the Magnificent


Characters

Khazbar the Magnificent – Great Bray Shaman – General (AHW + Jagged dagger + Talisman of Preservation + Level 4 – Lore of Shadow) – 294pts

Zhuroc the Shifty – Wargor – BSB (HA + Sh + Beast Banner) – 191pts

Bloodhorn Thunderfeet – Doombull (HA + Sh + Ramhorn Helm + Gnarled Hide + Dragonbane Gem + Sword of Battle + Arabyan Carpet) – 353pts

Wazzock the Lame – Bray Shaman (AHW + Chalice of Dark Rain + Level 2 – Lore of Beasts) – 152pts

Core

Gor Herd (38 Gor + FC + AHW) – 329pts

Gor Herd (19 Gor + FC + AHW) – 177pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot – 80pts

1 Tuskgor Chariot – 80pts

Special

Bestigor Herd  (24 Bestigor + FC + HA + GW + Standard of Discipline) – 333pts

1 Razorgor Herd  – 55pts

1 Razorgor Herd – 55pts

5 Harpies – Scout – 70pts

5 Harpies – 55pts

Rare

1 Ghorgon – 275pts

Grand Total – 2499pts


List Build Reasoning

I really wanted to use minotaurs but in order to include the additional items such the chalice on the Shaman and additional chaff, I had to cut something from the list and they drew the short straw (the choice was between them, the Bestigor or the Ghorgon). A perhaps controversial choice but i’ll cover reasons below.

So why take what I did?

Lords

The first decision was who to take as the general. Lvl 4 GBS, Beastlord or Doombull?

Each had pro’s and cons. The Beastlord’s advantage was due to the higher leadership. However I had already made the decision to take a lvl 4 shaman (this was a no brainer having been magic starved as a dwarf in the first group!). Realistically this meant only having enough points for one more lord and having made the decision to cut the Minotaur unit and due to my love of them (they have always been my favourite Chaos unit), it meant that I had to include the Doombull so they were represented.

With no unit to hide in I would however, have to rethink his load out and having seen the idea of a flying bull online I stole and adapted the idea, of course ignoring the conventional agreed load out (no charmed shield for me, instead a veritable mass of attacks with a 1+ save which would probably result in further attacks). He would be acting as a super chaff and would likely be able to stall entire units of low str models.

With the Doombull roaming free, this meant the GBS was the only choice as general. The logical place to put him would be in the Bestigor unit to take advantage of the standard of discipline so that other units would test on an LD of 9. A 4++ talisman would help to give him a bit of survivability, either in combat or from miscasts. The AHW and jagged dagger were to give him the chance to gain additional power dice for each kill he made (at a very low cost). I chose Shadow over Beasts on him as I like more of the spells and I was a relative 8th ed. magic novice and it seemed a more straight forward lore. Beasts has some great spells but seems more reliant on being able to get those specific ones.

Heroes

This also meant that I could also take a lvl 2 Shaman on Beasts who would then benefit from the +1 to cast lore attribute, effectively making him a lvl 3 for free (at least for casting at the beastmen). Everyone loves the signature (Wyssans) and any other spell would be an added bonus. He was given the Chalice over a dispel scroll. I’m still not entirely sure this was wise but my army relies on getting into combat (and in one piece) and with taking a Ghorgon, I needed something else to help mitigate warmachines (especially cannons and stone throwers).

The final choice was a Wargor BSB. For a low leadership army, that relies on passing LD tests in order to reroll ‘to hit’ in each round of combat, the BSB is mandatory. Giving him the Beast Banner (+1 Strength to the holder and their unit) is one of the most obvious Beastmen BSB builds but is very effective when put in a Gor unit (The banner together with HA + sh + Gnarled hide combine to make the infamous 206 build. As i’m using the hide elsewhere, his defence will have to suffer somewhat).

Core

Honestly there was no real underlying strategy behind the core choices. I own 2 chariots, 60 Gor and 10 ungor raiders. That pretty much defined my choices. Of these, the 2 chariots were auto includes as I have always loved Chariots since picking up Grom and some other goblin wolf chariots back in 4th ed. Likewise a horde of Gor with AHW seems to be generally accepted as the best core unit and honestly who doesn’t like a horde! 40 odd attacks with a slim chance of boosting them to 50 at str 3 (or 4 if the Beast Banner is in the unit) is nothing to be sniffed at. A smaller unit of Gor allows me to have the option of ambushing it (should I want) or using it as a Shaman bunker. It is generally just more versatile than the horde.

I did think about dropping a few Gor from the smaller unit in order to include some raiders but I would have wanted 2 units in order to have the option to make use of ambushing and the cutting of troops to allow this would have hamstrung the 2nd Gor unit too much.

Special

I read somewhere that Beastmen are kings of the chaff. I’m not sure of the truth of that but they do have some good options. 2 units of harpies give me some much needed speed. 10 initiative 5 attacks for each unit, should be enough to beat other chaff. Giving one of them scout, together with their high move gives a very good chance of getting them into any warmachines too.

The chaff are rounded out with 2 individual Razorgors. They are affectionately called pork rockets by many Beastmen players. 55pts for 4 str 6 (on the charge) attacks is a bargain. These can be used on a flank, to assist existing combats or even as hard cover for other units. If nothing else perhaps I will have learnt how to use chaff by the end of the comp! 

Bestigors are a solid dependable unit. Good leadership (for Beastmen), armour(!), great weapons, the ability to take a magic standard and being able to add in Beastmen characters meant that with the greater versatility, I had to favour them over the Minotaurs, especially with the high cost of each Minotaur.

Rare

And now we come to the elephant (Ghorgon?) in the room. It is almost universally agreed that the Ghorgon is overpriced and with the ability of any strength attack to wound on a 6, poison avoiding toughness and no save, it just isn’t durable enough to include in a list. So why the hell did I take one?

I’ll be honest, I almost didn’t. For the same price I could have almost 5 Minotaurs with additional hand weapons that would pump out 19 str 5 attacks (if the doombull was in the unit giving frenzy) and 2 str 5 impacts (on the charge) and 2 str 5 stomps (+ whatever the Doombull added). That is a lot of attacks and putting it down here now I am almost trying to work out what on earth I was thinking. The Minotaurs do have some issues though. They only have light armour (may as well not have any – so on a par with the Ghorgon there) and more importantly only toughness 4. That makes it relatively easy to cause wounds on them, especially with the type of matchups opponents would favour. The 295 cost for 5 Minotaurs also doesn’t include a standard/musician, which, with a  LD of 7 they really need. They also need to be near the general/BSB to ensure they aren’t frenzy baited (or break easily).

So we then come to the Ghorgon. I could talk about the advantages of it over the Minotaurs (and I will) but the long and short of it is I have a model I really love and wanted to use it. That’s it.

Now having said that, it does have some advantages over the Minotaurs. First off it is LD 10 and Stubborn. That means it can operate independently on the flanks, something that very few other Beastmen units can. It is unlikely to fail a frenzy test and in combat it will hardly ever break. WS 4, Str + T + W’s of 6 means most units will need a 4 to hit and 6 to wound. Even cannons have only a 1 in 6 chance of killing it in one go and with the Chalice in the list, they will need a 4+ to even fire on one turn which might give it a chance to get into combat. The other way of looking at it, is that it is a large monster (something i’ve also not used having been playing Dwarves, so another point in its favour) and such an imposing model, he will likely be a magnet for fire and anything aiming at him will not be aiming at other units that are potentially more integral to the army synergies (I even managed to write that with out cracking a laugh as most of the list was picked based on what I own or really wanted to use…). So for better or for worse, he has been included.

Yes to horde formation on the Gors. It's the only way to fly. I have 4 battle reps using this list that I'll upload (hopefully tonight), one which was against Empire with a stank (which to answer your question I failed to deal with in any way) and then I'll upload my thoughts on how I found the list.
We also only have a couple of OnG players in our club and one is currently using his nurgle daemons and the other I've never played against (though he is in my d&d group).

Evaluation of the Herd of Khazbar the Magnificent

With the second stage of the comp finished, I wrote some thoughts down about my Beastmen army and how they performed, what worked well and what didn’t. Marks have been given based on my opinion of the unit and influenced by how effectively I can use it!


Characters


Khazbar – Level 4 Great Bray Shaman (Shadow). 4/5

Overall he worked really well. The lore complemented the army and is fairly easy to use. The only issue is, i set the army up for him to go in the bestigor, so he could take advantage of the standard of discipline. This meant he was often up against foes with high toughness/multi wound models (as that was the units prime target) which wasted his jagged dagger item. Making him a lvl 4 beasts and keeping the same loadout but with fencers blades so he was a more oriented combat character, would probably make more sense. When placed in a different unit, the one point drop in leadership was really noticeable.

Wazzock - level 2 Shaman (Beasts). 4/5

Was surprisingly effective, he has the same attack stats as a Gor champion so with an AHW, acted as a combat multiplier and wyssans is just such good value. Going forward I would definitely drop the chalice of dark rain and put in a dispel scroll, as the former is too situational (though in fairness I didn’t compete against any particular shooty army builds). Depending on how I take the level 4 going forward, I’ll either swop Wazzock to a lvl 1 shadow or perhaps even run a second lvl 1 also with beasts for a second wyssans.

Zhuroc BSB Wargore (Beast banner). 5/5

Hardly ever made combat but he was never meant to. His sole task was to provide a buff and reroll. The banner really made a difference to the horde with the +1 Str bonus and I was surprised he wasn’t targeted more, especially as he only had a 4+ basic save.

Bloodhorn – Doombull 4/5

I get the impression my opponents were far more experienced in facing doombulls than I am in playing them. Either that or he has a certain fear factor as a lot of effort went into getting rid of him. In terms of his load out, I think I made the right choice, especially as he was a lone character. The magic weapon meant I could use him to clear out ethereal, something the rest of my army would struggle with.

The problem was in my selection of targets. He should have just ploughed into standard rank and file, where his high save and basic stats would rip them apart. Saying that, he made a solid dent in Paul’s great Unclean one and it was just bad luck he didn’t muller a chunk of Dan's empire. If I ran Minotaurs, I’d definitely be tempted to put another one in the unit as well as having him fly around. I only gave him a 4/5 mainly down to my use of him. Aesthetically he’s a 5/5.

Units

38 Gor horde 4/5

Complete beast, especially with the banner. Over 40 Str 4 attacks (if the BSB is in the unit) will tear through most things. Only one real way to play it, pick an opposing unit and get into combat as soon as possible using your chaff to eliminate his blockers, something I didn’t always do and it normally cost me when I didn’t. If we didn’t have a competition 40 wound restriction, I’d likely boost this to 50 models as it takes a lot of punishment from all directions. What I didn’t appreciate was how much opponents feared this unit in each game and adding another 10 models might just make them avoid it more so might actually be counter intuitive.

With the beast banner this unit is definitely a 5/5.

19 Gor herd 3/5

The unit was fine but you have to pick fights with care. It mainly got used as a bunker for the level 2 and wyssans helped it a lot. I would be tempted to either boost the size by at least 5 models if only to help survivability, as I do find that extra rank can make all the difference, especially in 8th. The other option would be to drop the unit completely and run a couple of 30pt ungor raiders. At that size/cost I wouldn’t care about the random Beastmen ambush rule.

Chariots 4/5

I like these a lot. Yes they get targeted by cannons quite a bit, need to be in BSB or generals LD bubble and their combat effectiveness is somewhat debatable (if only down to my single die rolls). However they are reasonably cheap, are there mainly to support other units in combat and can be used as chaff if needed.

Bestigor 5/5

I can see why this unit is a go to in most competitive lists. WS4, Str 6, primal fury and a 50pt magic standard allowance make them as good as we will get. LD 8 maybe average for most armies but it’s gold standard for Beastmen. ASL does mean they should apply the maxim go big or go home. Having one of the only saves in the army generally means nothing when they are fighting the high str/toughness preferred foe. The unit of 24 I took worked well in most cases. It was the right size to be flexible and absorb some casualties, however in half my battles, the magical cascade from having the lvl4 embedded there, effectively took it out of the game before it reached combat! So the moral is: 24 is fine but go 40 if your shaman is in there!

Harpies 3/5

I’ll admit I struggled to use them effectively. A combination of unfavourable matchups or good deployment by my opponents didn’t help (and I kept forgetting I had scout on one unit). I can see how in the right hands they can be used very well (perhaps that will be me with more practice) and Neil taught me a nice trick with them (or with his furies) using them in a 3*2 rank for character assassination.

Razorgor 5/5

Compared to the harpies I generally had much more luck with the porkchop express but only once I realised it actually has limited use in combat. Sure it has 4 attacks and a good str, which increases on the charge but I found it averaged out to one wound. I found the best way to use it was run it in front of a combat unit and stick it in the face of an enemy unit, always remembering to angle it so if they charge you can counter into their flank (he may be mediocre in attack but he is surprisingly survivable) or if they don’t he can stay there and block them or help with a combo charge. In theory, harpies could be used the same way but I found it easier to do with a single model and it is for this reason I’ve given it such a high rating.

Ghorgon 3/5

I have 2 models I completely love and use as Ghorgons and it was purely for this reason I took it. I want to love the rules but after using it I’m struggling. The truth is I’ve not yet used it effectively and wonder if I ever will. When you deploy it you always worry that it will be one shotted. It just isn’t survivable enough, especially when anything can wound on a 6+ (although ironically he survived 3 out of the 4 battles I used him in). There is also the points cost. 275. That’s a lot. For just over that, I could bump up the size of the Bestigor unit (the standard option) or get 6 minotaurs with AHW. Yes they are also massively overpriced, especially if you compare them to trolls or Ogres and suffer from frenzy baiting with a much lower leadership but you get far more attacks and wounds (and who doesn't love minotaurs!).

Scout is (I think) a 20pt upgrade. I've found it a bit hit or miss, depending on what you are fighting. If your opponent knows what they are doing they'll deploy to prevent you getting behind their lines easily. Still it's another tool in the Beastmen arsenal and allows the harpies to start the game in some great positions to help March block or get to vulnerable characters, units or warmachines and for 20pts I consider it worth upgrading at least one unit. (I hope I got the gist of your query).

Wow so many battle reports, will keep me occupied when I have a slow work day