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Post by knoffles on May 30, 2017 13:25:11 GMT
His warriors won't like the gyro steam gun templates either though.. Completely agree and if I wasn't so worried about the hell cannon they would be the primary target, still if they are near to the cannon, one could be given that duty.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2017 16:21:24 GMT
His warriors are on 25mm bases (fewer hits), are T4 (boostable if he chooses) and have a 4+ save. While I think they're the best target for the steam cannons I also don't see them causing a lot of casualites. Good luck! Of course I have to root for the Chaos Warriors though
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Post by knoffles on Jun 5, 2017 18:26:34 GMT
His warriors won't like the gyro steam gun templates either though.. They didn't like them at all. Admittedly I was rolling really well to wound. One of those games where my dice were on fire for some rolls (e.g. the gyro's vs warriors) but then total shite for others (every roll with my warriors against his Daemon Prince).
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2017 18:31:40 GMT
I think that perhaps the pilot performed some "unauthorized modifications" to his flying steed?
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Post by knoffles on Jun 5, 2017 21:25:56 GMT
After the success of the last (partial battle), it looks like I am up against Neil next, who is a regular opponent and one of the better players at the club. As such, I think I will be bring the below list or some thing very close to it:
Characters
Runesmith (General) - Ro Stone, Ro Spellbreaking * 2, shield - 113pts
Runesmith - Ro Stone, Ro Spellbreaking, Shield - 93pts
Thane (BSB) - MRo Valaya, Shield - 158pts
Master Engineer - Ro Stone, BoP - 85pts
Master Engineer - Ro Stone, GW - 81pts
Core
25 Longbeards - FC, GW, Ro Stoicism - 415pts
14 Quarrellers - GW, Standard, Musician - 216pts
Special
23 Hammerers - Standard, Musician, MRo Groth One-Eye - 417pts
Cannon - Ro Forging - 145pts
Gyrocoptor - 80pts
Gyrocoptor - 80pts
Rare
17 Irondrakes - FC, Bo Drakepistols, Ro Slowness - 320pts
Organ Gun - Ro Accuracy - 145pts
Organ Gun - Ro Accuracy, Ro Burning - 150pts
As Neil is known to be a very competitive player, I wanted to bring a tougher list than my last one. It also contains many elements that I've previously used, so i'm pretty confident in using them more competitively (he says now...). Most of the list will have stubborn, the longbeards through their standard and the quarrellers and Irondrakes if they are within range of the Hammerers. Between the Valaya banner and the two runesmiths, i'm hoping to be able to shut down the magic phase, whilst with a bit of luck removing the most dangerous of the enemy spells. The 2 engineers, each manning an organ gun, will giving them a 2+ to hit (or 3+ at long range). Two are to ensure redundancy. The engineer load outs are just for fluff as one model has pistols, the other a Steamhammer. The Cannon is there for taking down the tougher models and with 3 warmachines it should prove harder for him to close them all down. I would have loved to have fit in a Grudge thrower (one day I will) but I would have had to of removed too many options to fit one in, especially to fit on the runes of penetrating, accuracy and forging that I would want to include.
One thing i'd love an opinion on (confirmation?) is the Brace of Drake Pistols. I'd assumed (I think mistakenly) that giving the champion the pistols would allow the Irondrakes to always stand and shoot at short range. However the pistols are 12" range and as the drake guns are 18" the pistols shoot over half range. So stand and shoot is therefore always at long range. I think i'm used to thunderers where having pistols on the champion would mean that the shooting would be at half range.
Cheers
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Post by Horace on Jun 6, 2017 8:00:36 GMT
One thing i'd love an opinion on (confirmation?) is the Brace of Drake Pistols. I'd assumed (I think mistakenly) that giving the champion the pistols would allow the Irondrakes to always stand and shoot at short range. However the pistols are 12" range and as the drake guns are 18" the pistols shoot over half range. So stand and shoot is therefore always at long range. I think i'm used to thunderers where having pistols on the champion would mean that the shooting would be at half range. I may be getting the wrong end of the stick here but Irondrakes can always stand and shoot at short range anyway because they have Quick to Fire too? Wouldn't you just roll them separately anyway?
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Post by knoffles on Jun 6, 2017 10:51:33 GMT
It was a good call and I've just had to look it up but Quick to fire gives no -1 stand and shoot (SaS) penalty (although dwarves ignore that anyway) and it also allows you to SaS no matter how close the charging unit is (normally they must be a greater distance away than your basic movement).
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Post by Horace on Jun 6, 2017 12:09:49 GMT
That is correct and what I thought you were referring to? With regards to to hit penalties, it would be applied to the champion model independently of the unit afaik
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Post by knoffles on Jun 6, 2017 13:58:34 GMT
What I was trying to check (and instead minced my words), is around standing and shooting without the long range -1 penalty. For instance:
Scenario 1. Irondrakes (ID) all have drakeguns. An enemy unit is 20" away and charges, so the ID unit will hit the enemy unit at the closest missile range (drakeguns 18") and it will be on a 5+ (which is the normal 4+ to hit and a -1 for long range).
Scenario 2. ID champion has drake fire pistols and enemy unit is 20" away and charges. I think they will still hit on a 5+ as the shortest range is 12" (for the pistols) but as this is over half the range of the drakegun (18/2 = 9") it is still long range so incurs a -1.
Hope that makes sense now and is my reading of the stand and shoot correct?
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Post by Horace on Jun 6, 2017 14:38:28 GMT
Well I guess your champion would choose which weapon he is going to stand and shoot with. The stand and shoot is resolved at the maximum range of the shooting unit's shortest ranged weapon (so if you chose to go with the pistols that would be @ 12" and would be at long range as you say) Edit scrap that, I see the champion exchanges his weapon for the pistols so would have to shoot with them. Long range for both either way
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Post by Deleted on Jun 6, 2017 16:11:57 GMT
You both are correct. Stand and shoot happens at the longest range of the units shortest range weapon.
So in this case assume the target is 12" away as that is the range of the pistols.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jun 6, 2017 17:13:24 GMT
What I was trying to check (and instead minced my words), is around standing and shooting without the long range -1 penalty. For instance: Scenario 1. Irondrakes (ID) all have drakeguns. An enemy unit is 20" away and charges, so the ID unit will hit the enemy unit at the closest missile range (drakeguns 18") and it will be on a 5+ (which is the normal 4+ to hit and a -1 for long range). Scenario 2. ID champion has drake fire pistols and enemy unit is 20" away and charges. I think they will still hit on a 5+ as the shortest range is 12" (for the pistols) but as this is over half the range of the drakegun (18/2 = 9") it is still long range so incurs a -1. Hope that makes sense now and is my reading of the stand and shoot correct? Agreed with this, likewise I was thinking of Thunderers and their 24 inch range.
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Post by knoffles on Jun 6, 2017 18:00:24 GMT
Cheers gents, as you say, pistols on the thunderers champ would make them short range SaS and that is why I was getting confused.
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