|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 1, 2017 11:52:32 GMT
As a group we play closed list Warhammer, thing is we have a few house rules, nothing ground breaking but things I’ve played for years in tournaments. I wanted to get them on paper and maybe add a few others. One of them pertains to WYSIWYG.
When deploying my army I tell my opponent what the unit it that I’m deploying. “30 Tomb Guard armed with light armour, shield and hand weapon, full command” I don’t mention the magical standard.
I may then deploy a character, “level 2 liche priest” now I’ve got a few options with this…
“Level 2 liche priest” modelled wearing a cloak
“Level 2 liche priest with a cloak”
“Level 2 liche priest with the cloak of dunes”
Now I could place a model without a cloak and should I be expected to reveal this?
It’s all leading up to this, should my opponent or I disclose a magic carpet? I believe it’s a yes as the model should be sitting on top of it but what do YOU think?
Greg
|
|
|
Post by gjnoronh on Aug 1, 2017 13:59:00 GMT
Either it's open list or closed list. Open list hand them a copy of your army list and as you deploy tell them what you are dropping (they can look at the list for details) Closed list I just tell them non magical equipment. I don't tell them about assassins or fanatics or magic items. Marks of chaos should be disclosed
I think most editions of WFB have been designed to be closed (some magic items that revealed what magic items a model has or the presence of fanatics wouldn't make sense otherwise. )
I think tournament play generally goes better open. Otherwise the dispel scroll sometimes seems to teleport from level 2 to level 2!
|
|
|
Post by TheREALricksalamone on Aug 1, 2017 14:01:05 GMT
Interesting discussion here. My preferred style is to, as you said, say "here's a unit of khorne warriors with hand weapon and shield, standard and musician." I do not like to disclose magic banners, runes, fanatics, etc.
In the liche priest example, I would not worry about a lack of cloak on the model as I feel like they all have pouches and stuff on them and there could be some gear tucked away. I am particular, though, about things like lances. If my captasus model has a lance modeled, he will always be equipped with a lance, even when a magic sword suits him better. My only exception here is unit champions. I have no problem with my blood knight champ holding a sword but fighting with lance when I get into combat. I prefer my champs to be armed a little different as it helps them stand out.
I'm struggling right now as I build my unit of chaos goblins. There are a few models with spears, a few holding a hand weapon. What I might do here is something new for me:
I'm thinking about making a few 40mm unit fillers to represent shields or spears. Like a bucket of spears or a pile of shields. This is not ideal for me but the models I've sourced are armed with a variety of weapons. Would anyone have an issue with this?
As for the magic carpet, yeah I'd like to see something on the model to represent flight. Even if the guy had wings or a crude rocket strapped to his back, I'd prefer that to just telling me he could fly. An exception here is Daemonic and Vampire models. It's been discussed around the gaming table before that these characters don't really need wings modeled because it's plausible that a demon or vampire could just launch himself a great distance or even fly using some demonic or magical ability.
|
|
|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 1, 2017 14:06:02 GMT
As for the cloak and carpet, you'd be happy with a cloak not showing but would expect a carpet. I think tournament play generally goes better open. Otherwise the dispel scroll sometimes seems to teleport from level 2 to level 2! Then you mark it on your list in some way, but I get what your saying. Greg
|
|
|
Post by mottdon on Aug 1, 2017 14:23:41 GMT
We play pretty much the way you're describing, but we don't do WYSIWYG. We also tend to play 2500+ point games and a lot of my friends don't have that much money to spend on every representation of models that they want to play with, so WYSIWYG only restricts our play.
Now, if you take magical items, we play so that you don't have to disclose those until you use them, but we also have lists of our armies, point values and their equipment to hand to each other before the game, but we don't take a look at them until after we've played. It's just a way of keeping each other honest. Also, if we get into a combat and someone reveals a magical item that significantly swings things in their favor, then we can always say, "No, really, I DO have it! Just check my list!"
We do, however, tell each other things like, "This is my general" or "This is my caster and he's a Lv4."
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 1, 2017 14:35:39 GMT
We are pretty loose with our WYSIWYG. At the start of the battle, we just declare what everything is but do not say things like magic items/banners/fanatics etc. We play closed lists in that regard because that seems to be how the game was designed. There are specific magic items and abilities (Kemmlers staff springs to mind) which reveal magic items within x". This indicates to me that you should NOT know in advance what & where they are placed. We certainly do not model any magic items on units or characters, it is just assumed they have them on their person. The rulebook actually states: Interesting discussion here. My preferred style is to, as you said, say "here's a unit of khorne warriors with hand weapon and shield, standard and musician." I do not like to disclose magic banners, runes, fanatics, etc. In the liche priest example, I would not worry about a lack of cloak on the model as I feel like they all have pouches and stuff on them and there could be some gear tucked away. I am particular, though, about things like lances. If my captasus model has a lance modeled, he will always be equipped with a lance, even when a magic sword suits him better. My only exception here is unit champions. I have no problem with my blood knight champ holding a sword but fighting with lance when I get into combat. I prefer my champs to be armed a little different as it helps them stand out. I'm struggling right now as I build my unit of chaos goblins. There are a few models with spears, a few holding a hand weapon. What I might do here is something new for me: I'm thinking about making a few 40mm unit fillers to represent shields or spears. Like a bucket of spears or a pile of shields. This is not ideal for me but the models I've sourced are armed with a variety of weapons. Would anyone have an issue with this? As for the magic carpet, yeah I'd like to see something on the model to represent flight. Even if the guy had wings or a crude rocket strapped to his back, I'd prefer that to just telling me he could fly. An exception here is Daemonic and Vampire models. It's been discussed around the gaming table before that these characters don't really need wings modeled because it's plausible that a demon or vampire could just launch himself a great distance or even fly using some demonic or magical ability. The fillers are a good way to indicate how they are armed. Otherwise you could simply just put the way you are arming them on the front rank and sides, and fill the middle of the unit with the non-used option
|
|
|
Post by Naitsabes on Aug 1, 2017 16:47:13 GMT
I am on the same page with everybody else, WYSIWIG for mundane equipment (loosely so not to get in the way, e.g. champions often have different weapons to stand out, only front rank has 'right' weapons for plain $$$ reasons). Magic items do not need to be represented, although cool points if they are, I've seen some pretty fun 'scroll caddy' conversions. The carpet also screams for a dedicated awesome model.
Tournament standard was open lists and locally that has seeped into pick-up games...regrettably so.
|
|
|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 1, 2017 18:24:35 GMT
I prefer WYSIWYG but I'm happy for my opponent to be flexible, now I'm not minted - if I were I'd have both hand weapon and shield as well as halberd options for my tomb kings but I'm more for it than against, as an example if the unit were armed with spears I'd not throw my teddy in a corner if they eneded up not having them but I think my opponent should say so at the beginning. In the UK (and from the $ symbols and some of the spellings of words you're not all from the UK here) closed list is far more common. Yes open list makes for a more straight forward game - yes I have two rune smiths both with duel runes of spell breaking... but having closed lists leaves my opponent wondering if I've taken them this week or not. Same can be said about Brets with the silver mirror and a dispel scroll.
I understand that not all items can be modelled, it would be silly to assume they could be but if not modelled some items (carpet IMO) should be mentioned.
Greg
|
|
|
Post by Horace on Aug 1, 2017 19:23:47 GMT
but having closed lists leaves my opponent wondering if I've taken them this week or not. Same can be said about Brets with the silver mirror and a dispel scroll. I understand that not all items can be modelled, it would be silly to assume they could be but if not modelled some items (carpet IMO) should be mentioned. Greg That's half the fun isn't it. Makes list building more thoughtful and not so cookie-cuttery. You can try out new surprise combos which are perhaps not optimal
|
|
|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 1, 2017 20:53:44 GMT
That's half the fun isn't it. Makes list building more thoughtful and not so cookie-cuttery. You can try out new surprise combos which are perhaps not optimal Exactly, not something that open lists are known for. Greg
|
|
|
Post by knoffles on Aug 1, 2017 22:11:50 GMT
We tend to play open lists at the club (and always for the comps) but not always for friendlies. Part of the effectiveness of a Dwarf ambush list is gone if they know it's coming. Open lists allow you to proxy (within reason) if needed and is a bit more friendly. I prefer closed lists for more competitive games. I know what you mean about the magic carpet and it's one of the reasons I've converted my doombull. As soon as it's your first go, your opponent will likely know you have it (unless you are being particularly sneaky).
|
|
|
Post by strutsagget on Aug 2, 2017 11:33:24 GMT
We tend to play closed lists and any proxies allowed just as base size fits, you have a list to show that you dont make it up on the go. Wysiswyg would hinder us too much as some has not the units they need to play. With that said I would not show up with an emty 100x50 base and call it forest dragon. But if my opponent would like to do that to try a unit before he buys it one time I would be ok with me but not as fun to play But we only play friendly games and not as many so far
|
|
|
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 2, 2017 13:13:47 GMT
But if my opponent would like to do that to try a unit before he buys it one time I would be ok with me... But you'd know it was a dragon though Greg
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2017 16:34:00 GMT
Interesting discussion here. My preferred style is to, as you said, say "here's a unit of khorne warriors with hand weapon and shield, standard and musician." I do not like to disclose magic banners, runes, fanatics, etc. In the liche priest example, I would not worry about a lack of cloak on the model as I feel like they all have pouches and stuff on them and there could be some gear tucked away. I am particular, though, about things like lances. If my captasus model has a lance modeled, he will always be equipped with a lance, even when a magic sword suits him better. My only exception here is unit champions. I have no problem with my blood knight champ holding a sword but fighting with lance when I get into combat. I prefer my champs to be armed a little different as it helps them stand out. I'm struggling right now as I build my unit of chaos goblins. There are a few models with spears, a few holding a hand weapon. What I might do here is something new for me: I'm thinking about making a few 40mm unit fillers to represent shields or spears. Like a bucket of spears or a pile of shields. This is not ideal for me but the models I've sourced are armed with a variety of weapons. Would anyone have an issue with this? As for the magic carpet, yeah I'd like to see something on the model to represent flight. Even if the guy had wings or a crude rocket strapped to his back, I'd prefer that to just telling me he could fly. An exception here is Daemonic and Vampire models. It's been discussed around the gaming table before that these characters don't really need wings modeled because it's plausible that a demon or vampire could just launch himself a great distance or even fly using some demonic or magical ability. I've adopted a disciplined vs undisciplined approach to this. My skaven and beastmen will have a mix of spears/hand weapons & shield/two hand weapons scattered throughout the entire unit. I place the correct loadout on the front two ranks so there is no confusion as to what the unit is armed with. I like seeing a mix of weaponry among races like these. For my disciplined races though like Chaos Warriors/Empire/Dark Elves/Lizardmen all models in the unit will be armed with the correct weapon. I don't hold others to this standard though. As far as my opponents and our lists we adopt an open list approach, more so out of kindness than anything else it's nothing we've ever truly agreed upon. I won't make my opponents tell me about things like assassins and fanatics though. Those things are meant to be suprises and I like being surprised. My regular O&G opponent always takes three-four fanatics spread amongst three units but I never know where they are or how many are in each unit. I enjoy the surprise!
|
|