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Post by mottdon on Aug 11, 2017 18:29:35 GMT
So here's a theory-hammer list. How effective would TWO named Goblin Lords work TOGETHER?!? Both characters have unique abilities that greatly enhance their Goblins. Is it overkill? Is it a union made in Mork and Gork land? Is it pointless? Do they have synergy or none at all? Let me know what you think.
Here's the list I came up with:
Lords
Grom the Paunch - 285 pts Skarsnik - 275 pts
Heroes
Night Goblin Shaman (Lv2, Dispel Scroll) - 110 pts Night Goblin Shaman (Lv2) - 85 pts
Core
44 Night Goblins (Full Command, 3 Fanatics, Netters) - 282 pts 26 Night Goblins (3 Fanatics) - 153 pts 30 Night Goblins (3 Fanatics, Short Bows) - 165 pts 5 Wolf Riders (Musician, Shields) - 65 pts 5 Wolf Riders (Musician, Shields) - 65 pts
Special
2 Wolf Chariots - 100 pts Wolf Chariot - 50 pts Wolf Chariot - 50 pts 6 Trolls - 210 pts
Rare
Arachnarok Spider - 290 pts 2 Goblin Rock Lobbas - 170 pts Doom Diver Catapult - 80 pts Mangler Squig - 65 pts
Total: 2500 points
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 18:36:34 GMT
My first impression: Do you need that many fanatics? They're expensive and it seems the list could use more bodies. It's very light on the bodies already (for a goblin list).
Looks fun!
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Post by mottdon on Aug 11, 2017 19:11:17 GMT
I just like Fanatics. They cause chaos on the table top. And I don't really have much confidence in them winning a combat without Fanatics weakening their opponents. Plus, with Grom and his chariots and wolf riders pushing up on one side, and the A-rock and Mangler pushing up on the other, having 9 Fanatics swarming the middle could be nasty. What would you do if facing that?
I could get rid of the Wolf Riders, but they are in there to tie up any chaff that might try triggering the Fanatics too early or be sacrificial lambs for the Mangler. And with the 2 Rock Lobbers, Doom Diver and Night Goblin bows (plus Skarsnik's weapon attack), opponents will be hard-pressed to just sit back and let them come.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2017 19:36:19 GMT
NOOOO!!! Don't lose the wolf riders. If anything you should be looking to add more. Fast cavalry are so useful!
What I would do against that:
Hang back, sacrifice all of my chaff (I never bring fewer than 3 units) to draw out the fanatics as soon as I can, and then enjoy the carnage in your lines while dealing with the flanks.
Although it would probably be: send two units of chaff at the night goblins and one unit at the mangler. My skaven army has enough rat darts to deal with all of those units though.
This of course assumes my opponent is doing nothing to win the chaff war.
This is why you want to make sure and keep the dogs.
If it were me I'd knock it down to 2 fanatics per mob and then spend the (90?) points on another wolf rider mob with any remaining points into bigger infantry blocks.
But that's just me.
Also if your general is running up a flank and not providing his LD to the army I would focus on trying to panic those night goblin units off the board with magic and shooting. This is another reason to add more bodies to those mobs.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 11, 2017 20:09:27 GMT
Those are good points. I should clarify though, that Grom wouldn't be my general, rather Skarsnik in this scenario. They are both Ld8, so since Grom is already the BSB for the army, I'd rather split the two (General and BSB) so that I don't lose both in one character. Plus, as you say, Skarsnik would be more centrally located with the Night Goblins and Trolls. And with Skarsnik's ability to force a unit of his opponent into coming on as reserves, a unit of chaff might be a good option. Or a piece of artillery. Probably the latter. Shooting and magic can deal with chaff.
My main concern would be protecting the Mangler from chaff. I'd probably put the 30 Night Goblins with short bows on that same side so that they could shoot at them as well as Skarsnik. Then there would also be the A-rock Spider and Trolls on that side as well to intercept. I don't know. In a perfect world I suppose.
It might be good to drop the two smaller units to 2 Fanatics each, but I'd want Skarsnik's horde to remain with 3. Skarsnik + 44 NG = 50 sized unit. I want that one as strong as possible without becoming too cumbersome. The two NG unit to either side of Skarsnik's horde would be sacrificial, by being placed 1" ahead of Skarsnik's horde. All advancing together.
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Post by Horace on Aug 14, 2017 10:44:21 GMT
The problem with Grom and Skarsnik is they are both pretty lightweight. Skarsnik basically just has 6 wounds to hide behind and Grom is not really much better, at least he has regeneration but only 3 wounds.
I find the Bad Moon Banner to be something I like to invest 50 points in when I am playing with Skarsnik
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Post by mottdon on Aug 14, 2017 15:31:04 GMT
Well, Grom is automatically the BSB for the army since he comes with it. (Unless I'm mistaken and his banner is optional? Kevin? You'd probably know better than anyone.) Unfortunately, there really isn't a better Goblin Lord or Hero option. This is all just for kicks anyway.
I've already painted up a Skarsnik and I have a Grom model coming in the mail, so I wanted to see how both could do together. It might be interesting...
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Post by frozenfood on Aug 14, 2017 16:30:52 GMT
Banner is not optional. Is a mandatory lucky goblin
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Post by mottdon on Aug 14, 2017 18:21:34 GMT
That's what I thought, but whenever something that I've always just taken as "normal" comes into question, it makes me think that I might've missed something obvious. Lol!
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Post by Horace on Aug 15, 2017 9:03:46 GMT
The banner is good anyway, it gives the Chariot a 5++ At least it has a slim chance of survival
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Post by mottdon on Aug 15, 2017 12:59:20 GMT
Lol! True. I suppose he'll need all he can get!
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Post by KevinC on Aug 15, 2017 15:01:07 GMT
Well, Grom is automatically the BSB for the army since he comes with it. (Unless I'm mistaken and his banner is optional? Kevin? You'd probably know better than anyone.) Unfortunately, there really isn't a better Goblin Lord or Hero option. This is all just for kicks anyway. I've already painted up a Skarsnik and I have a Grom model coming in the mail, so I wanted to see how both could do together. It might be interesting... ---------------The banner is not optional. Grom comes with his chariot, Niblet, and the battle standard. The issue I have regarding a small to mid-size game is: Grom + Skarsnik + Shamans are a lot of points. Grom and Skarsnik alone cost 560 points - nearly a quarter of your points. Are they worth it? Although mighty (for Goblins, anyway), they are still just Goblins. When I build my Goblin armies, I try and spend as few points on characters as possible. I also find Goblin characters mounted on something more effective. I prefer Goblin characters on chariots or gigantic spiders/Giant squigs. When you put a big boss on a gigantic spider or squig, they gain +1 Wound, they are better in combat (because of the mount's attacks), and gain a really good armour save (3+ for a spider, or 2+ with a low-point magic armour piece). You can get a Big Boss on a Gigantic Spider with equipment and even a low cost magic item(s) for under 100 points. Anyway, I'm not saying Grom and Skarsnik don't work together, I'm sure it will be a fun list to play (and that's what matters!). But, in terms of are they the most effective options together? I'd say no. Looking forward to the battle reports with them....
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Post by mottdon on Aug 15, 2017 16:26:25 GMT
Yeah, I TYPICALLY like to use the Goblin Boss on Gigantic Spider in my O&G lists, but I like using Skarsnik whenever I have the opportunity and after your last BatRep with Grom, you really got me thinking about using Grom in games as well. I bought one off eBay and should be getting it in soon. I'll paint him up and then put him to WORK! I just got to wondering how effective both might do in a list since I like both of their rule sets. I thought it might be fun to see them working together and causing all kinds of shenanigans!
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Post by KevinC on Aug 15, 2017 16:27:57 GMT
Yeah, I TYPICALLY like to use the Goblin Boss on Gigantic Spider in my O&G lists, but I like using Skarsnik whenever I have the opportunity and after your last BatRep with Grom, you really got me thinking about using Grom in games as well. I bought one off eBay and should be getting it in soon. I'll paint him up and then put him to WORK! I just got to wondering how effective both might do in a list since I like both of their rule sets. I thought it might be fun to see them working together and causing all kinds of shenanigans! --------Yea, I'm looking forward to your reports!
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Post by Horace on Aug 15, 2017 19:08:02 GMT
Have you ever joined the Big Boss on Spider to a unit? or do you prefer them to run around solo?
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