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Post by mottdon on Aug 19, 2017 11:16:36 GMT
So, as was suggested by gregwarhamsters, I started a new thread concerning magic resistance. What do you guys do in your games? Do you "house rules" it, and if so, what are your modifications? Do you just ignore it and focus on armor saves and ward saves? Or do you actively pursue a strategy that revolves around MR?
Personally, I think it's one area of the game where GW simply missed their mark. The guys I play with and I usually decide that MR works against all magic. But I'm afraid that makes a model too defensive. The fact that it can increase a ward save is already powerful, but against magical weapons too makes it a bit OP.
For this reason, I think that the ward save needs to work ONLY against physical attacks, or in lue of BOTH armor and Magic Resistance. Meaning, if you have a ward save, it can work against both physical and magical attacks, but you only get one saving throw. It negates armor saves as well as magic resistance.
What do you guys think?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 19, 2017 12:00:29 GMT
I have no problems with the system of armour/ward saves as it currently is. However, I would prefer MR to apply to all spells, perhaps even all magical effects. The latter could perhaps work as follows: if the MR-save is successfull, magical weapons are treated as mundane.
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MR
Aug 19, 2017 14:26:55 GMT
via mobile
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Post by frozenfood on Aug 19, 2017 14:26:55 GMT
In my last game a war altar and steamtank disappeared due to one spell. That is overpowered. Magic resistance might have helped the altar if it was allowed. I don't really have a problem with it since many things are very powerful. Makes the game more fun
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MR
Aug 19, 2017 15:25:55 GMT
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 19, 2017 15:25:55 GMT
So, as was suggested by gregwarhamsters, I started a new thread concerning magic resistance. Thank you. Only because I'd never be able to find it otherwise. Magic resistance as mentioned seems to be a forgotten element of the game. I'm not even saying I play it correctly but on page 72 it says it's a bonus to a ward save against spells that cause damage. Now I interpret this to mean that a hex (we’ll use the Curse of Anraheir from the beast lore as an example) I cannot use my magic resistance on as it’s not caused me any damage. I don't agree that magic weapons are affected this is purely used against spells. I'm not saying I agree with it not working against hex spells - if you remember in 6th-7th it gave you bonus dice if you wanted to dispel it which made far more sense if you ask me but it's not like we can roll back the rules. So a model with a ward save of 4++ (MR2) has a 2++ save vs a damaging spell. As pointed out the big spells and those that say, no saves of any kind such as "The dwellers below" are just complete game changers. Sure dwellers is one of the extreme spells that effect every single model in the unit (pit of shades is every model under a template) but if you've MR in the unit then not able to use it, it seems unfair. So as a group we've said MR can be used against any damaging spells even those that have no save allowed, in addition we've also allowed a look out sir for characters as long as the unit meets those requirements i.e 5 rank and file models minimum. Greg
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Deleted
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 17:06:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 17:06:26 GMT
I handle it the same way that Gregs group does.
Magic Resistance works against all magical spells and effects, even those that don't normally allow a save of any kind. Miscast results, Dwellers, etc. It does NOT work against magic weapons.
We also allow LoS! against dwellers and final transmutation so long as the requirements for LoS! are met.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 17:23:10 GMT
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 21, 2017 17:23:10 GMT
Yikes! I had never even heard of MR applying against magic weapons until this thread. And I have heard a lot of wacky things in my days. I would say that 100% of the time, I play that MR does NOT work against magic weapons.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 18:03:38 GMT
Post by mottdon on Aug 21, 2017 18:03:38 GMT
No, I'm not saying that it DOES work against magic weapons, just that it could be a cool possibility, but only if the ward save was tuned down. Still, might be a cool prospect. We only play as it works against all magical spells. Sorry, I wasn't very clear.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 20:43:40 GMT
Post by gregwarhamsters on Aug 21, 2017 20:43:40 GMT
No, I'm not saying that it DOES work against magic weapons. However we do in fact use a magical resistance however we do in fact use a magical resistance on some weapon types namely burning weapons. We have magic items such as Dragon bane gems or Dragonhelms (also useful against the Lores of fire and metal) but what gets me (and I’m not a fan of) is that a bolt thrower (or whatever) with say a rune of burning would bounce off someone with a minor trinket. Hang on, I can see a flammable target having a resistance because of a magic item but you’ve still been hit by a big stick with a pointy end travelling at extreme velocity. However it’s in the rules so I have to accept it. Don’t like it but have to go along with it. Greg
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:05:29 GMT
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 21, 2017 21:05:29 GMT
Magic resistance as mentioned seems to be a forgotten element of the game. I agree.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:08:59 GMT
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2017 21:08:59 GMT
What gregwarhamster says. There seems to be a particular bias against Flaming Attacks, as apart from the Dragonbane Gem, there is also e.g. the Empire's White Cloak of Ulric, or the High Elves Fireborn rule. Of course, probably the most broken magical item in the 8th edition is the Banner of the World Dragon.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:12:31 GMT
Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 21, 2017 21:12:31 GMT
Aye. Dragonhelm is a good way for a Tomb King that is down on his luck to spend 10 points.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:25:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2017 21:25:35 GMT
What gregwarhamster says. There seems to be a particular bias against Flaming Attacks, as apart from the Dragonbane Gem, there is also e.g. the Empire's White Cloak of Ulric, or the High Elves Fireborn rule. Of course, probably the most broken magical item in the 8th edition is the Banner of the World Dragon. Don't get me started on that underpriced PoS banner. My regular opponent in college was a High Elf and I faced that banner every.single.game. Watching skullcrushers and chaos knights bounce off swordmasters and white lions time and time again because of some...50(?),75(?) point banner (cheap enough to be taken on the unit standard; in its current form it should ONLY be able to be taken on a bsb) was just ludicrous. Oh and that unit can still be buffed? Mages can still cast spells while bunkered in the unit? Poppycock. In all honesty I just started going after the spear blocks and the Silver Helms with my skullcrushers and knights. I knew that that was a safe bet. Leave the heavy lifting to my Warriors...
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:36:23 GMT
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2017 21:36:23 GMT
50 points. Seriously? Yes, seriously. The Empire crappy (CR is not what it used to be) Griffon Banner is 60 points (!) and can only be carried by the BSB.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 21:57:37 GMT
Post by mottdon on Aug 21, 2017 21:57:37 GMT
Lol, yeah, I'm really surprised that GW never FAQed that Banner. And from a HE player's perspective, how can you NOT take it? The only time I'd take that banner on a BSB is when I wanted him in a unit of Sisters of Avelorn with the Everqueen in them. The rest of the army plays defense. HE have some really good MR built in through good characters like Caradryan too.
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MR
Aug 21, 2017 22:36:38 GMT
Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 21, 2017 22:36:38 GMT
Never put a magic banner on a BSB, if it can be taken by the unit's standard bearer. The re-roll of Ld tests is already worth the BSB, but if the BSB is killed, the banner is lost. If it is on the standard bearer, the Banner lives on.
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