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Post by knoffles on Sept 6, 2017 8:17:53 GMT
Gents, I need some advice on painting white, espesically over black undercoats.
To start paint brand. Currently I have 2 GW pots (base and a layer) and although I like many of their colours/paints, frankly I'm not impressed with these. I often hear the brand vallanjo (or something like that) bandied around but never used them (but know some of you use them as they were in your paint station/hobby area photos).
Normally I'm a fairly lazy painter, if I can do a single layer (not watered down), wash, drybrush and perhaps highlights for characters, I'll call a model done. However even I've had to knuckle down and paint multilayers on white.
So any tips on making this process better?
I suppose generally I was one of the people stuck in a GW 'rut', always using their products but now I'm branching out in all areas, which was why the conversation on brushes was also really useful.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 6, 2017 11:28:21 GMT
Well, I think it depends on what type of white look you're going for. By that I mean, if you want a pure, unblemished white (something High Elves might wear), then you really need to start with a white primer coat. I try to keep at least a spray can of black and white primer on hand at all times.
Black is great for hiding missed spots, especially on pewter models, but if you want really bright colors, white is the way to go. If you used black primer, you'll have to layer up several times with your bright color until you reach the shade you desire. If you want a more graduated white look, with plenty of shadows, them you start with Black primer and then apply a coat of Grey paint then dry brush lighter Greys up ending with a final highlight of pure white. No wash. The Greys will act as your shadows. A wash will wind up making it look dirty. Most colors can get away with using washes (and usually need them) but white is just too pure. The more pure white you use, the more radiant the model will appear, but be careful because there is a very fine line that once crossed, makes the model look too flat and cartoony. White is often rarely just white. It is a mixture of shadows leading up to one pure color at the very apexes of whatever contour you're painting. I use a lot of Ulthuan Grey as my "White". It just doesn't appear as beamingly glorious, like an angel just descended and landed on you table top.
I made this mistake early on with many of my Empire and High Elf models. I was just getting into the game and slapping paint on the models because I wanted to play. That's why I don't have very many pics of those armies in my respective threads. I plan on going back and touching them up, unit by unit. As for paints, I've been pleased with GW paints. They offer a wide range and are good quality that lasts a very long time. Vallejo paints are good too, and cheaper oftentimes, but I don't really see much of a difference quality-wise. They do use dropper bottles instead of pots which probably keeps the paints from drying out as fast. I use the GW paints though because I have plenty of suppliers near me and they have a paint for nearly every occasion I can think of. (Even Blood for the Blood God is good!)
I hope this helps!
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Post by knoffles on Sept 6, 2017 11:43:09 GMT
That is cheers mottdon. Especially about using the light grey. I usually have 3 primers now, black, white and green (the latter for my fledgling Marines). I would normally use white primer but the particular model I was struggling with was a beastlord (most of my beasts are primed black) where I was continuing my 'pillage empire/Bret cloth for clothes' and was looking to try a white and red pattern.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 6, 2017 12:54:17 GMT
I see. Well, in your case, I'd probably stick with the black primer since your Beastlord will have killed and scavenged whatever equipment he's using. The "white" will more than likely be more grey, dingy and probably splattered with mud. In this case, you might even actually use a different wash (like Agrellian Earth) to "dirty it up" as well as keep the same shading across the red areas. There is really no need to keep it looking perfectly white. I'd stick with grey and washes, then in only a few raised areas, draw a VERY slight highlight line with white to indicate that it WAS white at some point.
That's just what I'd do. Everybody's different.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 6, 2017 13:02:18 GMT
I'm going to get your Slayer in the mail to you today, by the way!
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Post by Horace on Sept 6, 2017 13:10:40 GMT
I don't think you have to change primer tbh. I approach all my whites in the same way mottdon has outlined, a codex grey or something similar as a base, then build up the whiteness by adding in some white scar until you are happy with how white it is. I don't usually do this with a drybrush unless I am doing something textured. Just layer it on and make sure your paint is not too thick - thin it with lahmian medium
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Post by mahbruck on Sept 6, 2017 18:00:16 GMT
I used to paint loads of pure white when I was younger but now the maximum "white' I do on models is light Sea Grey with White at the Edges. I find that only with Airbrush can you do normal pure white effectively, as its paint spread is just inhumanly good !
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Post by vulcan on Sept 6, 2017 23:43:20 GMT
White without layers never comes out well. It either looks dingy, chalky (over black primer) or unfinished (over white).
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Sept 7, 2017 2:25:45 GMT
I paint over GW black spray primer...even if I'm painting white on my models. If you've seen my Talabheim Empire stuff you can see the results of many hours getting a bright white over black. Using cheap white craft paint I would need, not kidding, around 10 coats to get an even white. My most recent endeavor was a Primaris Apothecary for a painting competition at my local GW store (I won, BTW). I decided to spring for GWs white base paint for this model. It took maybe 3 coats to get to white from black, which I find very reasonable. I then used some Nuln Oil to shade the recesses in the armor followed by a reapplication of some white.
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