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Post by grubthak on Sept 21, 2017 14:29:29 GMT
Hello, I am new to this forum and am looking to expand and upgrade my army. I don't get to play often so am not very good at list-building.
LORDS
Black Orc Warboss w/ Basha's Axe, Enchanted Shield and Talisman of Preservation
Night Goblin Warboss w/ Giant Cave Squig, Shield, Spear and Light Armour
Skarsnik Warlord of the Eight Peaks
HEROES
Night Goblin Big Boss w/ Battle Standard
Night Goblin Shaman w/ Level Two, Dispell Scroll and Dragonbane Gem
Night Goblin Shaman w/ Level Two
Night Goblin Shaman w/ Level Two
CORE
66 Night Goblins w/ Spears, Musician, Standard, Netters and 3 Fanatics
29 Night Goblins w/ Bows, Musician, Standard and 3 Fanatics
29 Night Goblins w/ Bows, Musician, Standard and 3 Fanatics
SPECIAL
29 Black Orcs w/ Musician, Standard and Standard of Discipline
30 Cave Squigs and 10 Herders
8 Squig Hoppers
6 Trolls
RARE
Doom Diver Catapult
Mangler Squigs
Mangler Squigs
Snotling Pumpwagon w/ Spiky Roller
Snotling Pumpwagon w/ Spiky Roller
The Warboss and the Black Orcs form up 6x5 (either way).
Snarsnik, the BSB and the important shaman go in the 66-man unit making it 12 across and six deep.
The other two shaman go with the ranged goblin units 10 across and three deep.
A good third of the army still isn't bought so feel free to rip it to shreds. All tactic help and list changing would be a great help. Also keep in mind that this army will generally up against a dwarf gunline and a infantry heavy skaven army full of magic.
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Post by frozenfood on Sept 21, 2017 18:16:58 GMT
9 fanatics and a cheap skitterleaping skaven character can really ruin your day so I would take max 6.
Like the characters. No lvl4 can be a problem against a grey seer.
Squig hoppers have never been a huge hit with us. Perhaps we don't take enough of them.
Against the dwarves I do not see a lot of fast movement. A goblin on wolf would be a welcome addition.
Ah there is a cave squig I see, NIGHT goblin all the way.
And welcome. There are never enough goblin armies!
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Post by mottdon on Sept 22, 2017 13:28:30 GMT
Welcome, grubthak!
First thing you should know, is that we have one of the BEST O&G players here at EEFL, Kevin! He has years of experience with O&G and has written several O&G themed scenarios and rule FAQs. GW even adopted and published one of his scenarios, "Grom". He knows his stuff, so pay close attention to whatever advice he may provide! I'd also read some of his Battle Reports if you get a chance.
Now, are you purposefully going for a Night Goblin theme? It's cool if you are, I was just thinking that you'd really benefit from a couple of Wolf Riders as chaff. Right now, you have a lot of huge blocks of infantry. More than likely, you're going to run into movement difficulties. I think what frozenfood said about dropping to 6 Fanatics is a good idea. I'd probably drop one of the 30-man (goblin) units and pick up the Wolf Riders. A lone Goblin Warboss/Big Boss on Wolf will also come in quite handy when trying to get to those Dwarven Artillery.
The only time I'd really take 3 NG Shamans is when I have a Lv4 on A-Rock Spider with the Catchweb Shrine so that I could maximize the channeling attempts. And I'd also let those 3 be Lv1s. Spam the heck out of their spells to get that Lore Attribute to activate as much as possible and dominate the magic phase. Other than that though, I'd probably just stick with 2 Shamans and try to replace them with Goblin Cowboys on Wolves. I'd also drop the Dragonbane Gem and give the BSB the Charmed Shield. The BSB's far more improtant! (Especially since NG tend to take a lot of Ld tests!)
The Black Orcs will go a long way to keeping your guys in the fight. I'd try to keep them centrally located with the Trolls close by. Those are going to be hard-hitting units so you don't want them to get drawn off to one side of the board and then spend the rest of the game trying to get back into the fight.
I'd also probably try to pick up 3 Spear Chukkas if possible. He'll undoubtedly bring a couple of Gyrocopters. Those things are anti-horde units. With your huge blocks, it'll be very easy for him to get around you and keep laying flame templates on your NG hordes. As soon as you lose 25% of your horde, you'll have to start testing for panic, and Goblins aren't great at passing those. He'll try to take advantage of that as much as possible. This is a good reason to keep Skarsnik and his horde within the Warboss's Ld bubble. The Spear Chukkas will ignore the Gyrocopter's armor and they are very cheap, so you're not losing much if they don't work. I'd probably swap a Pump Wagon out for them.
Anyway, sounds like you're gearing up for a great game! I hope you have fun! Keep writing here and participating, because that's one of the best ways to learn and grow your passion for this game!
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Post by grubthak on Sept 22, 2017 13:52:44 GMT
Thank you for the replies, and yes, it is very much a night goblin themed army. The wagons are (WIP) squig chariots, the doom diver uses the squig gobba model and the trolls are getting little hoods. The reason that the black orcs were allowed in was because my mate said that they looked like night orcs and I ran with that idea. Because I am going to try and make the army more viable however I am willing to stretch the theme a bit further.
The only problem with dropping a NG unit is then I need to replace it with more core and try to keep it within the NG umbrella. However I'm not adverse to conversions so could try a wolf rider unit - alternatively how good are spider riders? Maybe with snagla as the hero attachment?. The cave squigs work well enough and I find that with the lord alone he dies too quickly.
So if I drop the second bow unit and shaman attached that frees up around 250 points, most of which has to go into core. Multiple harassing bow (or spear) wolf units? Are the squig hoppers still doing anything if I bring wolves because that is potentially another 200 points to drop lord+unit.
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Post by Horace on Sept 22, 2017 14:33:11 GMT
If you were wanting to get rid of the Black Orcs, you could probably swap them out for a Goblin lvl4 and stick him on an Arachnarok (I know this is a juicy target but you can always use your Trolls as a screen). You could probably trade away a couple of the lvl2 Shamans and still have enough points to pick up something else. Did I hear someone say Giant?
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Post by mottdon on Sept 22, 2017 16:06:04 GMT
Spider Riders aren't too bad, but their points make them a bit too hard to swallow. Wolves are a point higher as far as movement goes, but the spiders can just keep rolling over obstacles. The main difference is cost. Wolves are so much cheaper. They are meant to apply pressure and get in the way. Spiders cost just enough that you really want to do more than just chaff with them. They need some return on their points. But if you like them, they can certainly perform well. This is a good conversation on Spider Riders vs Wolf Riders: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/187/forest-goblin-spider-riders-wolfThe Black Orcs are a bit of a stretch as far as NG theme goes, but Skarsnik had Orcs under his command as well as NG, so it's plausible, but not in huge amounts. As a general rule, if you take a Lv3-4, make him a Goblin Shaman. If you take a Lv1-2, make him a Night Goblin Shaman for the Mushrooms. This is a really good read that KevinC wrote and will give you plenty to think about regarding your O&G army: eefl.freeforums.net/thread/646/colemania-orcs-goblins-tactica |
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Post by grubthak on Sept 23, 2017 13:49:44 GMT
So I could exchange my second 30 man bow unit and shaman for two 10-man wolf riders with bows and shields. Is this worth it? The black orcs work and I wouldn't want to remove it especially since it gives out a Ld 10 aura, however if I did I could use Skarsnik to get Ld 9 but he dies to easily. How are giants? I never gave them much of a chance because they seemed to be too soft and unreliable. I will give the tactica a good look, thanks for sharing!
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Post by KevinC on Sept 24, 2017 1:07:33 GMT
Cool looking list.
If you like the Black Orcs, keep them! They are extremely hitty and they will def help the entire army.
Regarding the Fanatics, 9 is a lot. That's 225 points and in my experience, not worth it. I'd cut it down to 4-5. Put 2-3 in the large unit, and 1-2 in an archer unit. Leave one unit of archers with zero, they are the bluffing unit. Your opponent will treat them as if they have fanatics, which can effect the movement of his army and even the overall strategy - which is the more important value of the fanatics. This ability comes for free with any Night Goblin unit, because your opponent will likely treat them as if they have fanatics even if they don't have them. Take advantage of this psychology without expending additional points.
To further save points, I'd make your Night Goblin Warboss on a Giant Squig a Big Boss. They function nearly identically, and the Big Boss gains the advantage of getting a free +1 Wound. I find a cheap piece of magic armour (such as the charmed shield or enchanted shield) can keep him in the game much longer, while still not increasing his points cost too much.
To keep your theme, I'd recommend taking Spider Riders instead of Wolf Riders. Giant Spiders are more appropriate for Night Goblins in my eyes (both lurking in dark places). Use the points saved on the Warboss and the fanatics to get two units of 5 Spider Riders to run around and cause mischief. You can model the riders as Night Goblins.
Regarding Squig Hoppers, I find them difficult to use effectively. They hit hard, but they die very easily. At I3, they are likely to strike last and half the unit will probably be killed before they can even strike back. Make sure you steer them at smaller and more vulnerable units or charge in on a rear or flank so that supporting attacks cannot target them.
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Post by mottdon on Oct 9, 2017 12:00:19 GMT
To further expand on what KevinC said, I'd still take 4-5 in my list, BUT...have all 9 sitting on the side, as if they are all ready to come on the board. It'll bluff your opponent and make him react accordingly. If you're playing a closed list, that is.
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