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Post by henning on Sept 28, 2017 13:50:33 GMT
While I am waiting for my armies to be shipped to Vietnam, I am using Mahbruck’s High Elves in our games to face his Dogs of War. I have never before played High Elves so I am unsure what works and doesn’t work. I am posting this list for comments and suggestions.
My idea is for a faster and more aggressive army. I will need to be agile to not get stuck in his big infantry blocks as I do not have anything to remove steadfast.
I know dragon princes don’t make the most efficient bus but I am limited by Mahbruck’s available units and I can use their inbuild ward save as a boost to high magic’s lore attribute potentially having a 2+ 3++ bus. Dwellers is my main concern though but I figure I can snipe his mage with one of my other units or the noble on eagle.
General
Prince on barded steed
Sword of anti heroes, armour of destiny, shield
Archmage on barded steed
Book of hoeth, talisman of preservation
Lvl4 High magic
Noble on barded steed
Star lance, enchanted shield, dragon armour
Bsb
Noble on great eagle
Charmed shield, terrifying mask of Eee, halberd
Shredding talons, swiftsense
Mage
Dispel scroll
Lvl1 Fire
39 Archers
Banner, muso
5 Silverhelms
Shields, muso
5 Reivers
Bows, muso
5 Reivers
Bows, muso
10 Dragon princes
Full command, banner of swiftness
Lion chariot
Tiranoc chariot
Tiranoc chariot
Boltthrower
Boltthrower
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Post by mottdon on Sept 28, 2017 15:11:11 GMT
Looks pretty good. I might break up that huge Archer block into two separate blocks. I'm assuming that you'll put the Prince and BSB in with the Dragon Princes? You can save some points by dropping a DP or two, and picking up another banner and musician for the second Archer unit. Also, I can be worth giving the Drakemaster a magic weapon or magic armor seeing as he can take up to 50 points worth of the two.
Personally, I'd break the Archers up into two separate units with only a Musician for each. (Since you aren't giving them light armor, you don't really want them to see combat, but even if they do, they're still Elves...) That will give you one unit of 20 and one of 19, both with Musicians for the same points.
Secondly, I'd drop two of the Dragon Princes (IF you are going to put the Prince and BSB in that unit) and give the Drakemaster the Ogre Blade and Dragonhelm. That will basically be 3 STRONG heroes in a STRONG unit. So even if they don't break their opponent on the first round of combat, you have plenty of strong attacks for subsequent rounds. If you want extra bodies in the Dragon Princes, I'd drop a Tiranoc Chariot.
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Post by Horace on Sept 28, 2017 15:27:33 GMT
I don't think light armour would make them combat worthy anyways..  Interesting list, make sure you take some pics of the battle! |
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Post by knoffles on Sept 28, 2017 15:43:24 GMT
I'm a big fan of cav heavy HE's, so like the list. I'm not going to comment too much (as your list might be a ploy as your opponent reads the forum 😉) and you've gone with a mobile theme list, I'm guessing, based on the models he has so I won't go on about units you should probably always take as they are stupidly good (*cough* Phoenix Guard *cough*) I would be tempted to split your archers into two units of 15 (or one of 15, one of 14). Put them in a 5*3 formation and just put a musician in each. This way everyone in each unit can shoot (due to martial prowess) and you get more versatility as they can combine fire or target different threats. It also gives you an extra drop if you're worried about such things. I will say that I've not played extensively with high elves but units of 15 have always worked well for me. There are some good discussions (and some links) on HE units and strengths in the below thread (and some questionable thoughts from mottdon on Silverhelms - joking ofc 😀). eefl.freeforums.net/thread/327/island-blood-re-release?page=3Edit: mottdon posted whilst I wrote this hence the duplicate comment on the archers |
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Post by mahbruck on Sept 28, 2017 18:07:57 GMT
I'm a big fan of cav heavy HE's, so like the list. I'm not going to comment too much (as your list might be a ploy as your opponent reads the forum 😉) and you've gone with a mobile theme list, I'm guessing, based on the models he has so I won't go on about units you should probably always take as they are stupidly good (*cough* Phoenix Guard *cough*) True dat, any High Elves army without the Phoenix guards loses 25% of its strength and I'm curious why he drops those. They butchered the whole Voland's block with Merchant Prince last game and are some of prettiest boyos in the army to boot!  By the way, don't be afraid that I read his list or what, I'm kinda stupidly stubborn in a way that I always use my favorites no matter what my opponent's list is (which are 36 pikeman tercio square, 16 Marksmen, Galloper Gun, Leonardo). Adding the requisite Merchant Prince, paymaster, lv4 mage, light cav, duellists, cannon and you have an almost static DoW list. The only difference is the urgent recruitment of 10 Mengil's Manflayers to even the odds a bit. I adored those dudes since the 6th edition especially as they were the only ones in the army actually get job done. Pity when I left the UK, I gifted them all to a friend. Now I have to remake them from scratch  The last picture of my ancient metal Druchii  |
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Post by mottdon on Sept 28, 2017 20:49:35 GMT
Lol, so similar!! I did these years ago though and they really need a touch-up.  |
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Post by Horace on Sept 28, 2017 23:07:19 GMT
HE can live without Phoenix guard easily enough, they have other excellent special choices in White Lions and Swordmasters. henning has gone without all 3 though.. Brave  |
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Post by frozenfood on Sept 29, 2017 4:29:51 GMT
Is the mask of EE worth it? I have had one game in 5 years where a unit actually fleed from a terror causing unit myself, so not too crazy about it.
The star lance is popular. I like the soul quench ring combo with dragon armour but to each his own.
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Post by mahbruck on Sept 29, 2017 8:17:43 GMT
Is the mask of EE worth it? I have had one game in 5 years where a unit actually fleed from a terror causing unit myself, so not too crazy about it. Absolutely worth it. The DoW are not stable bunch of lads in most of the times. Last game, both the pikemen and PM's bodyguards panicked and ran despite rerolls. |
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Post by henning on Sept 29, 2017 16:00:45 GMT
Thank you all for the great advice. I will try to respond to all the main ideas.
Firstly, I did think of running two blocks of archers and to be perfectly honest, I am not sure which would be best. If I run one big block, then I can hand of glory them all and put a dent in the infantry blocks, also they would need more casualties before having to test for panic which is big as I will probably not have my bsb near. Running them all as one block does come with its own set of risks though. If he manages to charge with the cavalry or magic them with dwellers then that is a big chunk of points for him. Having multiple blocks also increases my drops of which I am a big fan. I am torn.
I plan on running all my cav characters in the dragonhelms to make a bus. The mage is going in there to improve their ward saves with the lore attribute.
The eagle character’s main job is mopping up small units and warmachines. Even if only one unit fails terror and runs it means the character can kill 2 units in a turn. There is also the chance of a unit in cc failing fear test and that will help his survivability. So I will have to see how the item performs. I have slight hopes for it (holding thumbs)
I am tempted to give the dragonprince champion a magic weapon... will have to see where I can shave points.
As for no phoenix guard (or any other specialised infantry), I know they are very good as seen in our previous game but frankly they are too slow for this list. Still arguments can be made for them but this list is thematic and not meant to be super strong. All my cav would have been silverhelms (even the reivers) and I would add some phoenixes (the big chickens, not the guard 😜) if I wanted to go stronger.
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Post by mottdon on Sept 29, 2017 18:12:53 GMT
I had a good friend who ran a Dragon Prince bus with 13 in the unit, Full Command, and would give the Drakemaster a magic weapon (usually the +1A, but I always thought the +1 or +2 was better) and the Banner of Swiftness. He'd put a Prince and BSB in there with them, as you are doing now. (Remember, HE get to attack in 3 ranks due to Martial Prowess, so this really helps DPs). He'd take two units of 5 Ellyrian Reavers, and one unit of 10 Silver Helms. Two Bolt Throwers, and usually 2 units of 10 Archers to act as a bunker for his Loremaseter of Hoeth and a Lv2 Dispel Scroll caddy running High Magic. That was his core army. He'd throw in other things as suited him, game to game.
It was surprisingly effective! I never saw one army stand up to a charge from his Dragon Princes. He won a North Alabama tournament (around 30-40 participants) running this list. He'd start off by deploying his Reavers on either side of the board, hoping to draw off some of his opponent's forces and then when he saw the match-up he wanted his DPs to hit, he'd drop them opposite. The DPs and Silver Helms would charge forward, SPs stopping just outside his opponent's range and force the issue with his SHs. If they went for the sure charge on the SHs, then the DPs had an easy flank in the following turn, if not, then he'd get the charge off in the next phase. His Reavers would shoot back to the middle and screen the archer bunkers and the Bolt Throwers as well as lend support fire. They were there if they needed to charge and tie up something coming for the DPs flanks.
His opponents were always so busy trying to deal with these Heavy Cavalry tearing up his lines that they never got to deal with the Wizards bunkered in the middle of all that shooting. Everyone expects horde armies to be able to stop Cav armies like that, but in the last game I watched him play, he TORE UP a (very good) Skaven player. The last time I faced him, he defeated my Dwarves. There really wasn't an army that it couldn't beat. I think that you're on to something good here.
The infantry lists are good as well, but it's a slower, defensive game that you'll play. Nothing wrong with that, it's just a completely different kind of play.
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