stirling
New Member
Attempting to slowly build up a Wood Elf army.
Posts: 27 
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Post by stirling on Oct 27, 2017 3:12:43 GMT
Hey! This is a follow-up to a post I put in the Wood Elves tactics forum. I probably should have posted here first  I played my first game of 8th last week (haven't played since 6th). It was very casual, just for fun. 2,000 pts, my Wood Elves vs my nephew's Vampire Counts. I'm not sure I know how to use archers effectively because it felt like I was shooting feathers even though his Skeleton Warriors aren't very tough and they have a modest 5+ save. I'm essentially wondering how I can tweak my list so that I don't feel so helpless when we get together for another game next month. Caveat: I forgot that Asrai Longbows have the Armor Piercing special rule, so I'm sure things would have been a little different had I remembered. Here's the list I used: Glade Captain (General) Shield Sword of Battle Dragonhelm Opal Amulet Starfire Shafts Spellweaver L3 Earthing Rod Lore of Light (Net, Shem's Gaze, Light of Battle) Glade Guard x20 Full Command Glade Guard x20 FC Dryads x 26 Glade Riders x 15 FC Trueflight Arrows Gleaming Pennant Wardancers x 10 Bladesinger Warhawk Riders x 3 Treeman Strangleroots Eagle Now I know this list isn't great, so go easy on me. Again, first game in 8th Here are my main concerns: -Even though I got off about 40 shots per turn against a single 30-model Skeleton unit for four turns in a row, I couldn't kill it. -No causing panic from shooting because of undead, and of course there was that annoying spell that kept bringing Skeleton Warriors back. -Even though I got off about 20 shots at a unit of Graveguard, I couldn't kill a single model. -The Varghulf is just nasty. I don't see anyway I can effectively shoot that thing since it has Regeneration. -My opponent used a Mortis Engine so there was a Regen boost that it gave to a whole bunch of units (if I remember right). Essentially, I found myself wondering if I should get rid of archers altogether and focus on infantry....but my instincts tell me that's not really the way to play Wood Elves. I did find the tactica information about the most effective uses of the various types of magic arrows, so that was extremely helpful. I'm thinking I need to use Waywatchers and probably the Acorns so that I can make better us of the forests (and also possibly work in Calaingor's Stave, the Moonstone, and of course the HODA). Thanks! |
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Post by knoffles on Oct 27, 2017 9:11:16 GMT
As I said in the other post my play time with WEs in this edition is fairly limited so take what I say with a pinch of salt. The below are more things for you to think about. I also don't know what models you have available to you on top of those listed (but if it's with your nephew I'm sure proxies are fine). I'm also at work so any ? Are because I'm not near a book to check details.
If he's taking items that give lots of regen, then note one of your Glade guard units can take a magic banner up to 25pts. Give them the (10pt?) banner of eternal flame to strip regen and attack with that unit first before the others. You can then combine that with magic arrows of your choice (e.g hagbane) to get flaming poisoned AP shots (this combo is excellent for monsters with regen). I tend to think about what I want each unit to do/what their ideal target is and then select arrows accordingly.
Definitely try 10 waywatchers for anti-armour. Note they are fairly easy to kill so sometimes it's best to put them in your main line even though they can scout.
It might be worth having a couple of units of 10 Glade guard rather than a second block of 20, so they can shoot different targets (or the same one) and you can then give them different loadouts. If facing Lizards, I'd definitely give one of them trueflight so you can easily take out skirmishers in particular chameleon skinks. You also have more than enough points in core with the dryads and the Glade guard, so you could make the final 10 archers scouts. I think it is only 1pt more per model to give them scout and skirmish.
I like putting starfire shafts on characters as it also helps you to strip regen off another target and the +1 to wound also helps against most regen monsters.
You are right that just having archers won't win you the game, so I also really recommend Wildriders. They are fragile but hit like a train. I'd be tempted to reduce the Glade riders unit and use some of them if you don't have the models.
Also with regards to the Glade riders, it seems a lot of points to have in one unit that is subject to the random ambush rule (and they do have to start off the table due to that rule).
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 29, 2017 13:50:18 GMT
I agree with knoffles . I don’t have that many games done with WE and won even fever. But one thing for sure. I would never leave home without wildriders and will do two units as soon as I have them assembled. You have treeman as anvil so flanking with wildriders should be possible. I have even come out on top, charged by Hellpit abomination, might been lucky though but still If you want a stronger list I would remove som dryads and keep about 10 as a hammer. But do like the fluff part with having a lot of them Lore of Life is also pretty good with a treeman returning lost wounds. Not sure if its better as I have never tried lore of light yet, but its an option. In general I would try to only spend as many points needed in core. |
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stirling
New Member
Attempting to slowly build up a Wood Elf army.
Posts: 27
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Post by stirling on Oct 30, 2017 3:25:26 GMT
What size units do you guys recommend for the Wild Riders? Two units of 5?
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 30, 2017 6:14:08 GMT
What size units do you guys recommend for the Wild Riders? Two units of 5? Not sure yet. Until yesterday I only had 5 assembled. From what I read 6-7. As they are fast cav they move pretty easy in wider formations. Also people skip champ to leave the musician and bs one hit longer. |
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Post by knoffles on Oct 30, 2017 6:51:15 GMT
What size units do you guys recommend for the Wild Riders? Two units of 5? Not sure yet. Until yesterday I only had 5 assembled. From what I read 6-7. As they are fast cav they move pretty easy in wider formations. Also people skip champ to leave the musician and bs one hit longer. I'd agree 6-7. Allows one or two to fall to fire and still give them a punch in combat. |
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Post by strutsagget on Oct 30, 2017 7:28:42 GMT
knoffles what do you say about running two of 5 instead of one of 7? That way you could loose one of them and still punch with the other? stirling you probably could add the champ if you run 7, it at least sounds good in theory.
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Post by knoffles on Oct 30, 2017 8:17:08 GMT
strutsagget i still struggle with the msu idea (even having followed the king of msu, Swordmaster, for many years). With just a 4+ save, 5 feels too fragile. Not sure why 6 is better, probably a mental thing 😀. I still like the idea of 10 in a unit with lord/captain on Great Stag but that's probably just me.
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Post by mottdon on Oct 30, 2017 16:55:17 GMT
As far as the Wild Riders go, I'd probably leave them at home versus VC. Wild Riders rely on combat res. They hit HARD and rely on either wiping out the unit they are hitting on the charge, or doing enough damage that their opponent flees combat and they run them down. VC don't run, and there is almost always enough of them to easily absorb whatever wounds the WR would do on the charge. That being said, they are very good, and I'd recommend using two units of 5-6 each. This way, if one of the units gets redirected due to their Frenzy, then the other can still charge in and get their objective accomplished. Also, if one unit gets stuck in combat (not where you want them to be) then the other can charge in a subsequent turn and get all the charge attacks to help finish off the combat.
I'd actually look into a beefier unit like Treekin to be able to hit the Grave Guard with. The large units of Skeletons, you just need to ignore and redirect for the most part. They are there purely to tarpit you and act as a screen to better things.
Take Waywatchers and use them to hit his Mortis Engine first! Focus ALL of your shooting on that thing until it is dead. The longer it stays in the game, the more damage it will do. Also, if you can kill it while it is still in your opponent's lines, it'll blow up in his face!
I like taking multiple units of 10 Glade Guard instead of 2 larger blocks. Drop the Full Command on them and only take a Musician. That'll give you a few points to use on redirectors like Great Eagles. Eagles can really screw up his lines and/or put pressure on any bunkers he may have for his casters. Save most of your dispelling for the Invocate spell. You don't want him to grow back what you've worked so hard to kill. It also works really well with the Mortis Engine nearby.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 1, 2017 16:11:34 GMT
Hey! This is a follow-up to a post I put in the Wood Elves tactics forum. I probably should have posted here first I played my first game of 8th last week (haven't played since 6th). It was very casual, just for fun. 2,000 pts, my Wood Elves vs my nephew's Vampire Counts. I'm not sure I know how to use archers effectively because it felt like I was shooting feathers even though his Skeleton Warriors aren't very tough and they have a modest 5+ save. I'm essentially wondering how I can tweak my list so that I don't feel so helpless when we get together for another game next month. Caveat: I forgot that Asrai Longbows have the Armor Piercing special rule, so I'm sure things would have been a little different had I remembered. Here's the list I used: Glade Captain (General) Shield Sword of Battle Dragonhelm Opal Amulet Starfire Shafts Spellweaver L3 Earthing Rod Lore of Light (Net, Shem's Gaze, Light of Battle) Glade Guard x20 Full Command Glade Guard x20 FC Dryads x 26 Glade Riders x 15 FC Trueflight Arrows Gleaming Pennant Wardancers x 10 Bladesinger Warhawk Riders x 3 Treeman Strangleroots Eagle Now I know this list isn't great, so go easy on me. Again, first game in 8th Here are my main concerns: -Even though I got off about 40 shots per turn against a single 30-model Skeleton unit for four turns in a row, I couldn't kill it. -No causing panic from shooting because of undead, and of course there was that annoying spell that kept bringing Skeleton Warriors back. -Even though I got off about 20 shots at a unit of Graveguard, I couldn't kill a single model. -The Varghulf is just nasty. I don't see anyway I can effectively shoot that thing since it has Regeneration. -My opponent used a Mortis Engine so there was a Regen boost that it gave to a whole bunch of units (if I remember right). Essentially, I found myself wondering if I should get rid of archers altogether and focus on infantry....but my instincts tell me that's not really the way to play Wood Elves. I did find the tactica information about the most effective uses of the various types of magic arrows, so that was extremely helpful. I'm thinking I need to use Waywatchers and probably the Acorns so that I can make better us of the forests (and also possibly work in Calaingor's Stave, the Moonstone, and of course the HODA). Thanks! Congratulations on your first game! If you can, get your treeman into the Varghulf, he should wallop it. Don't worry about shooting it unless you have flaming arrows. Given it was your first game and what you wrote about considering dropping archers for infantry... compared with skeletons your archers are good infantry. Remember that unless you fail your fear test, even your feeble archers will hit the skeletons on 3+ then have rerolls of the failed hits due to their Always Strikes First rule. If you are already playing like that, ignore what I said. 20 shots not killing a single grave guard is unlucky, it shouldn't always play out like that. Regarding not killing the 30 unit of skeletons with shooting, I'm guessing that part of the reason was the resurrection of skeletons. Vampire Counts are the best army in the whole game at that, it's their thing, it's not really a bad reflection on your archers which are some of the best archers in the game. If you can, get rid of the mortis engine first. Treeman is ideal into the side of the graveguard, it's thunderstomp will do significant damage against them. You also have the option of trying of avoiding the grave guard all game and focussing on killing the skeletons, Varghulf and Mortis Engine whilst preserving your troops. How did your dryads go? It's your largest unit. They should be quite effective at killing skeletons with their 2 attacks. Every Warhammer battle is a learning experience. Certainly don't feel bad about losing. I once played a guy who lost 4/5 of his games. He was a great sport, and really appreciated the rare victories he won. So long as you are both enjoying the experience, who really cares who wins. |
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Post by henning on Nov 1, 2017 16:31:34 GMT
As far as the Wild Riders go, I'd probably leave them at home versus VC. Wild Riders rely on combat res. They hit HARD and rely on either wiping out the unit they are hitting on the charge, or doing enough damage that their opponent flees combat and they run them down. VC don't run, and there is almost always enough of them to easily absorb whatever wounds the WR would do on the charge. That being said, they are very good, and I'd recommend using two units of 5-6 each. This way, if one of the units gets redirected due to their Frenzy, then the other can still charge in and get their objective accomplished. Also, if one unit gets stuck in combat (not where you want them to be) then the other can charge in a subsequent turn and get all the charge attacks to help finish off the combat. I have played a fair bit of VC and I always feared the wildriders. On a couple of accounts a unit of 5-7 would charge the front of my 40 zombie busses and basically wipe them out on the charge. VC don't run but they crumble HARD and fast. |
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