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Post by strutsagget on Nov 1, 2017 21:37:40 GMT
So I wonder what you think about LoS and how are you able to aim? Let's say my opponent has a cannon and a stone thrower or bolt thrower for that matter. Are they able to shot over units? Feel like a lot of time you can see the unit but maybe not the ground where you are supposed to aim for instance with stone thrower? Example with infantry in front below. Daemon Prince is pretty huge as a target but his base might not be in LoS?  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2017 21:53:25 GMT
Others may have a more precise answer but here's how I understand it:
There is no abstraction with LoS in Warhammer; therefore if you can PHYSICALLY SEE the target you can shoot the target. Stone throwers are an exception, they also have the ability to shoot indirectly, you just have to declare ahead of time that's what you're doing because you work out an indirect shot differently than a direct one.
If you're firing a cannon you can place the initial shot over *unengaged* enemy units that's no problem; you just have to make sure that there is NO POSSIBILITY of the cannon shot hitting units in combat or friendly troops. This means that there needs to be a 20" line around the target free of any such obstruction.
EDIT: With regards to bolt throwers, they roll to hit with BS therefore if you fire through other units the target will count as in hard cover.
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Post by Naitsabes on Nov 2, 2017 2:57:01 GMT
ryrak sums it up pretty well. in practice units don't block line of sight as you can always claim to look in between the left leg of one guy and the right arm of the guy behind. I am pretty sure, the only war machine that needs to see the ground is the cannon. Stone Throwers can just aim for a model and hence only shoot indirectly when the target is behind a building or similar.
this 'true' line of sight is my single biggest gripe with 8th edition. especially because they had a better system in earlier editions. house rules for the win!
for the bolt thrower keep in mind that large targets can't claim cover from other units.
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Post by knoffles on Nov 2, 2017 12:57:45 GMT
ryrak sums it up pretty well. in practice units don't block line of sight as you can always claim to look in between the left leg of one guy and the right arm of the guy behind. I am pretty sure, the only war machine that needs to see the ground is the cannon. Stone Throwers can just aim for a model and hence only shoot indirectly when the target is behind a building or similar. this 'true' line of sight is my single biggest gripe with 8th edition. especially because they had a better system in earlier editions. house rules for the win! for the bolt thrower keep in mind that large targets can't claim cover from other units. 100% agree with all of the above incl. true line of sight rubbish |
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Post by strutsagget on Nov 2, 2017 13:18:11 GMT
Is large targets only models with large target rule or anything thats bigger then an infantry unit? For example daemon prince is pretty big but it doesn’t have the large target rule.
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Post by Horace on Nov 2, 2017 14:33:28 GMT
Huh I had to check that DP don't have large target and the rules around Monsters. I assumed they would have it.
Large targets all have the large target rule
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2017 16:50:18 GMT
Is large targets only models with large target rule or anything thats bigger then an infantry unit? For example daemon prince is pretty big but it doesn’t have the large target rule. A large target is a model that has the "large target" special rule. Agree about house rules. LoS in games like these needs to be abstracted, otherwise how would the models fit in/around the terrain pieces? |
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Post by vulcan on Nov 4, 2017 2:19:03 GMT
Actually, cannons can aim at any spot they can see, including on the model they are shooting at. The problem is, they're very likely to overshoot that spot due to the game mechanics. But if you're shooting at a 100mm base lengthwise you can still hit it with a roll of '2' or '4', which can make it worth doing if there's nothing else to shoot at.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Nov 21, 2017 23:32:25 GMT
As other have indicated, the Large Target rule (BRB p. 72) only means that they cannot claim cover shooting modifiers for obstacles. Therefore, it does not affect Cannons or Stone Throwers in any case (but it does affect a Bolt Thower). To establish LoS though intervening units, a laser marker comes in very handy.
And to rectify a common mistake: because of its peculiar rules, a cannon is not necessarily (or, indeed, in most cases) shooting at its actual intended target.
BRB p. 112: "Nominate a point within the war machine's line of sight and that is not outside the cannon's maximum range. Your target does not have to be an enemy model; it can be a point on the ground if you wish."
Given the bounce, one will almost never nominate the intended target to be point nominated for the bounce. |
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