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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 6, 2018 19:49:42 GMT
So, I'm due to play a couple of games vs OK I seem to struggle against these multiple wound guys, apart from the obvious take cannons any other advise on what troop types I should consider? Q1 Basically what should I spend my core (600) points on? Q2 Should I take hammerers or Ironbreakers?
Cheers
Greg
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Post by vulcan on Jan 6, 2018 20:46:33 GMT
They're faster and stronger than you, so you're in for a rough ride regardless.
Against Ogres, Hammerers are a slam dunk over Ironbreakers. S4+ Ogres tend to negate a lot of your armor save, so extra armor is less help than just killing them faster.
For core, I'd strongly recommend crossbows with GW... assuming that's still an option in the new book. S4 long-range shooting and S5 close combat helps quite a bit against T4 low armor stuff.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 7, 2018 10:36:32 GMT
I hear what your saying about GW armed quarrellers and this makes them the same cost as the hammerers' but to be effective I need to string them out maximising shots. I then need to rank them up (losing two shots, the reform and the Ogre charge) I desire to be steadfast.
Q:maneaters, what are considered to be the two default abilities? Stubborn and immunity maybe?
Greg
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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 13:29:20 GMT
Personally, I like to take regular Warriors with GWs. Maximize your bodies and pack a S5 attack. With GWs, they're 10 points and the easiest way to get in a bunch of bodies out of core. The Ld9 will keep them around for quite a while. Stick a BSB with the Rune of Grungni and Rune of Stoicism in there, and they won't rune easily. You'll need some challengers in there too, in order to accept the blows from his Tyrant.
Something to remember: If you have a Lord in with the Hammerers, any of them can issue or accept challenges! Keep that Tyrant busy NOT killing your units.
Gyrocopters to take out Sabertusk redirectors. Also to help remove Trollguts for your big guns.
As for Maneaters, I think the loadout on them largely depends on how your opponent intends to use them. As far as my experience, I've ALWAYS faced Maneaters with Poisoned Attacks and Sniper special rules. They'd also take a brace of Ogre Pistols. When you have 8+ poisoned shots coming for your characters, that makes you sweat bullets and do something rash and stray from your battle plan.
Let us know what you intend to do!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jan 8, 2018 15:52:48 GMT
Unconventional, but when facing ogres I was quite fond of multiple bolt throwers, spread across the battlefield to either be ignored or draw something off. One bolt thrower is less points than a single Ogre man eater afterall and I've found them very effective for the points vs the non-foot ogre elements (mournfang, Ironblaster especially) although shooting at the expensive Maneaters is often worthwhile. They imo work very well in conjunction with cannons also.
A sneaky trick if you are expecting a flying Tyrant build is iirc Flaxson's rune of seeking which will turn the flight into a liability.
Ive seen all kinds of crazy Maneater builds. In addition to the common 'poison assassin' that Mottdon mentioned, swiftstride seemed to be really popular in my area back in the day, it's like they were trying to turn them into fast cavalry.
Hammerers over Ironbreakers great advice as mentioned. Vs Ironguts you'll still get all your attacks which is great. Ironbreakers would do fine vs Ogre Bulls but it seems Ironguts are more common.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jan 8, 2018 16:00:56 GMT
I hear what your saying about GW armed quarrellers and this makes them the same cost as the hammerers' but to be effective I need to string them out maximising shots. I then need to rank them up (losing two shots, the reform and the Ogre charge) I desire to be steadfast. Q:maneaters, what are considered to be the two default abilities? Stubborn and immunity maybe? Greg I think that if you went the GW Quarrellers build you wouldn't worry about steadfast in the unit and focus on shooting, unless you could reform without much negative impact. If/when they lost combat you would have some rune or bsb combo which would give them stubborn or make them not run. I personally have never had much luck with the favoured GW armed Quarrellers. I've tried them a few times in a couple of builds....for me they never hit enough to do enough damage that I wished I hadn't just gone for GW warriors and had a couple more or saved the points. Meanwhile they've (dice reasons obviously) never really done well for me in combat in the way I would expect. Meanwhile my shield crossbow guys seem to aim like William Tell and my GW warriors consistently perform. It was almost like my guys (who weren't properly modelled with GW and crossbow) resented being proxied as such and never bothered giving their all. I've seen GW Quarrellers used to great effect though....just never been able to pull it off myself. |
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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 16:23:38 GMT
Something else you might consider is a unit or two of Rangers. They can consistently harass blocks of Ogres, remove chaff with their crossbows, or threaten War Machines in the backfield. On the other hand, Irondrakes could come in handy vs, Trollguts and if armed with a Rune (or two) of Slowness, that could seriously hamper them getting an Ogre Charge off. Something worth considering.
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 20:25:23 GMT
I'd also think about a flaming rune on a character if they're not packing a GW. If you can manage a SINGLE wound with that character before the GW wielding unit they're in then you negate Trollguts, one of their most awesome spells.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 8, 2018 22:01:45 GMT
I personally have never had much luck with the favoured GW armed Quarrellers. I've tried them a few times in a couple of builds....for me they never hit enough to do enough damage... Exactly my thoughts. Sure they're 30" range but even with the best will in the world the Ogres will be at 29" (I'm hitting on 5's) then they march so they're at 17" (again hitting on 5's) now will they charge? I doubt it. They'll close and I'll fire again this time 4's to hit. On average. 22+22 shots 14 hits, 7 wounds, what have they got? Heavy armour? Save on a 6 say 5 wounds then. short range, 11 hits, 5 wounds, save again on a 6 so go for 4 wounds total 9. 3 Ogres. Not bad but if I'm faceing 12 I think I'd rather have combat troops. Sure quarrellers can kill the small chaff units such as the puppies but this then means 22 shots at a dog and not the big unit. Greg |
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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 22:15:28 GMT
They can however be a nasty surprise in CC. No so much in a straight up fight but more as a flanking unit. Keep them on an outside edge, protecting war machines, etc, and then charge them in the flank of a big combat if you get a chance. The Crossbows keep them from becoming useless on the flanks. I rarely take much more than 10 though. That's a pretty hefty investment.
If I'm really going for some good support shooting, I think that Rangers are a much better choice. They can be taken in units as small as 5 men, they can hold their own in a fight, and they can harass enemy units with the best.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2018 9:07:49 GMT
I would still take 2 units of 10 Quarrellers. Their sole task should be to shoot the sabretusks coming for your warmachines. Arming them with shields, whilst a bit left field means you can then March them to block the sabretusk charged on said warmachines and they should win that fight due to attrition etc. If you have the bubble stubborn standard nearby, you can also block his big Ogre unit charges with them, angling to allow a flank counter from your hammerers/other hardhitting unit nearby. The shield wall and stubborn banner should keep some of them around to allow the counter.
As someone said above, a cheap flaming rune on warmachines and or magic weapon helps.
Irondrakes are also worth their weight in gold. I’d be tempted to take stubborn on them rather than slowness and dual pistols on the champ for 2 Str 5 combat attacks to strip regen. (I’ve never faced an Ogre player who didn’t regen to the max).
I’ve also found a lot of players to favour poison on the man eaters with the dual hand guns, though I’ve also faced them with the scout skill instead of sniper a fair few times.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2018 9:13:52 GMT
If you are taking a lord, giving him the D6 wound + 2* Ro Cleaving can be a nasty surprise though it is a bit list tailoring so depends if you don’t mind doing that.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Jan 9, 2018 11:13:15 GMT
Any troop with more than one attack allows you to catch up on wounds, and GW are a must. I run both of these armies.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 9, 2018 22:48:36 GMT
Well core aside I'm planning on hammerers. Warmachines, 3 cannons, 2 Organ guns. Minimum characters means I can spend more on specials.
Greg
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Post by mottdon on Jan 10, 2018 17:54:52 GMT
Fortunately, Dwarfs don't really need that many characters in order to operate. They are mostly for fun, quirky stuff.
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