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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 21:38:56 GMT
So I've got a game coming up against my VC friend. I let him pick which army he wanted to face and he chose Dwarfs. He also recently got enough models to play a 5000 pt game, so that's what we're going to do.
Here's what I came up with:
Lords:
Thorogrim Grudgebearer - 650 pts (I just want to play this guy. He's cool, and there aren't many games where he'll fit.) - [In with Warriors]
Heroes:
Thane (BSB, MRoStromniRedbeard, RoCourage, Shield) - 188 - [In with Longbeards] Thane (RoStone, RoParrying, RoFire, Shield) - [This guy is in there for anti-ethereal units. So my big blocks don't get stuck.] - 133 - [In with Hammerers] Grimm Burloksson - 165 - [In with Irondrakes] Master Engineer (RoStone, RoFury) - 100 - [In with Organ Gun] Runesmith (2xRoSpellbreaking, RoStone, RoSpeed, Shield) - 118 - [In with Longbeards] Runesmith (2xRoSpellbreaking, RoFurnace, GW) - 116 - [In with Hammerers] Runesmith (MRoBalance, RoSpellbreaking, Shield) - 138 - [In with Warriors]
Core:
30 Longbeards (FC, Shields, RoStoicism) - 455 10 Quarrellers (Standard, Musician, GW) - 160 10 Quarrellers (Musician, GW) - 150 50 Warriors (FC, GW) - 530
Special:
Cannon #1 (RoForging) - 145 Cannon #2 (RoForging, RoBurning) - 150 39 Hammerers (FC, MRoValaya) - 641 Bolt Thrower (RoBurning) - 60 Grudge Thrower (RoForging, RoAccuracy) - 130 3 Gyrocopters - 240
Rare:
Flame Cannon - 140 Organ Gun (RoAccuracy) - 145 10 Rangers - 140 20 Irondrakes (FC, Brace of Drakefire Pistols) - 330
So what do you guys think?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 22:12:17 GMT
Is your friend new to the game? Is he a vet? That's a lot of anti-magic against an army that really needs magic: he may not like you much after that. But that's also part of the Dwarf "experience" so take it with a grain of salt.
Trollhammer Torpedos seem to be hated on; I don't think they're worth the points you pay for them. It's a BS3 model and it's a single shot. But to each his own.
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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 22:26:55 GMT
Lol, he's still fairly new to 8th edition, but has been playing games like 40K for years. I told him that I'd take it easy on him, but he said, "Don't you dare! I hate it when people do that! Give me your worst!" So...okay, I suppose I'll try to shut down his magic and blow his stuff up! I know that he'll be taking a blender vampire on a Zombie Dragon, so I don't feel too terrible about taking so much artillery.
He'll still vastly outnumber me, but we'll see.
As for the Trollhammer Torpedo, you may have a good point there. I've always taken it, because it sounds so good on paper, but to be honest, I'm not sure that I've ever hit anything with it! But the other side of that coin is that the unit will have Grimm Burloksson in it and he can allow the entire unit to reroll failed To Hit rolls! That alone might make it worth taking....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2018 22:35:03 GMT
He's taking a blender lord on zombie dragon? I hope it's not his general as there is a good chance that the entire army will be crumbling after your first turn of shooting Just make sure there's plenty of terrain for him to hide behind/that blocks cannonballs so that he can (maybe) take advantage of cover on his approach. I'd at least let him blenderize something and have some fun with that vamp before you "toast" it. But man...3 dispel scrolls, two of which can eat spells...that's going to be harsh on him when he no longer has any spells that bring back models in his units He did ask for it though so I suppose it's fair. I don't think you have enough gyrocopters. You should have a pair of bombers and 6 regular copters. Dwarven air force for the win!
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Post by mottdon on Jan 8, 2018 23:00:48 GMT
Lol, I thought about it!
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 8, 2018 23:48:49 GMT
But man...3 dispel scrolls, two of which can eat spells...that's going to be harsh on him to be fair I take double runes twice in a 2400 point list. Knowing he has to take magic you could have gone a lot worse on him. What are the chances of him going with the general as a level 1 and then that's it, no more casters relying on the march move of his troops and investing in numbers rather than casters. Greg
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2018 0:11:56 GMT
well...magic doesn't really scale with the size of the game though. Unless they've agreed on as much.
It's still 3 dispel scrolls in a 2D6 magic system.
But that's dwarves so it's expected I suppose.
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Post by mottdon on Jan 9, 2018 0:16:57 GMT
I'd say slim to none. He loves hordes and the thought of overwhelming his opponents with vast numbers of Skeletons and Zombies. I know he's already told me that he'll be bringing a horde of Crypt Ghouls, and I'm fairly certain that he'll bring a Terrorghiest, Coven Throne, 6 Vargheists, a Mortis Engine, Varghulf, Black Coach, Black Knight's, etc.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2018 8:19:14 GMT
Target rich environment 😉. Grimm might be exactly what the trollhammer needs as I’ve also found it less than impressive when I’ve taken it. I will say the unit champion is BS4 but as he doesnt get quick to fire and I rarely stand still with the unit, he is BS3 for all intents.
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Post by mottdon on Jan 9, 2018 9:48:24 GMT
Well, the good thing is that the pressure will definitely be on him to come to me since he has no shooting.
What are your thoughts on taking Thorogrim and 40 Hammerers?
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2018 11:36:34 GMT
I would advise against adding him to the hammerers and instead put him in a weaker unit (e.g. warriors). 40 hammerers is a frightening prospect to face and when I’ve used them, opponents will avoid/chaff them like the plague. Adding him in will ensure they definitely avoid them! So he (like other dwarf lords) are best used to shore up weaker units. You might have meant just taking them in general, in which case, I’d love to see Thor grim used as I’ve not seen him in 8th so no idea of his actual effectiveness, though he looks good on paper. The above comment on hordes of hammerers still apply. I’d avoid them as much as possible and M3 makes that reasonably easy.
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Post by mottdon on Jan 9, 2018 13:24:12 GMT
Hmmm...that's a very good point. It's probably overkill anyway. I originally placed him with the Hammerers to take advantage of their Bodyguard special rule, but I think you're right. Okay, I've revised my OP. I put Thorogrim in with the Warriors, because 50 GW Warriors is still packs quite the punch, Longbeards are mostly to anchor the flank of my army, but most importantly, the Warriors (due to Thorogrim's crown conferring Stubborn and Immune to Psychology to his unit), Hammerers (due to the MRoStromniRedbeard), and Longbeards (due to the Rune of Stoicism), are Stubborn and Immune to Psychology this way. There shouldn't be any running going on.
I've also tried to make sure that each (of the main 3) unit had a character with a runic weapon in there to combat ethereal units. That, combined with CR, should be able to get through them fairly easily. I'll have to use artillery if some of the smaller units are threatened by ethereals (I'm mostly worried about my Gyrocopters and Rangers).
I changed up the BSB banner as well. Instead of going with the typical MRoGrungni, I changed it up for the MRoStromniRedbeard, the RoCourage, and placed him in the Hammerers unit. That way, he'll be centrally located in a unit that nobody really wants to fight, he'll confer +1 CR to the Warriors, Hammerers and Longbeards, and also give the Hammerers Immune to Psychology, so they'll never have to worry about those Fear and Terror tests. Yes, he loses his 4++ ward save, but he'll be nestled in a very tough unit, so that offers him a good degree of protection right there.
I'm not as worried about him simply avoiding me the entire game, because it is such a large game and he'll have a ton of models. Besides, I will have the advantage of shooting with all of my artillery which will put a lot of pressure on him to engage with me. I've pretty much consolidated my forces down to 4 main combat blocks as well (Warriors, Hammerers, Longbeards, and Irondrakes). Hopefully, that'll be hard to churn through.
I'm thinking that the Mortis Engine, Zombie Dragon and Terrorgheist will be my top priorities for shooting. I see those as being my biggest threats. The Black Coach, Coven Throne (not sure about that one), and Vargheists will be a second priority. Things like ethereal units (Hexwraiths) will need some attention as well. My Grudge Thrower will (hopefully) target his Necromancer bunker the whole game. The Cannons will target the big things (mentioned above) and the Bolt Thrower will try to help out where the Cannons simply fall short (i.e. hitting a unit with a flaming bolt to take away any regen, which is prevalent in VC armies). The Flame Cannon will probably need to target the hordes of Skeletons and Zombies in order to thin them out along with the Gyrocopters and Irondrakes The Rangers and Quarrellers will target smaller chaff units like Wolves and Fell Bats. We'll just see because these things always change based on deployment and urgency.
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2018 18:48:48 GMT
You are probably all over this but as I’ve normally seen you play Empire... Remember that war machines with runes count as magical attacks so can clear ethereal.
I’m also confused. Where’s the Ro Penetrating on the Grudgethrower? 😀
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Post by mottdon on Jan 9, 2018 19:09:26 GMT
Yeah, I had to explain that the Runes counted as magical attacks to him just recently. I think it caused him to rethink his list, Lol! He was planning on Ethereal-ing me to death and didn't think that there was anything I could do about it. I'm pretty sure he thought he'd found a loophole. I then had to stumble through the whole "runes aren't magic, but count as magic for game purposes" discussion. Pretty sure he was thoroughly confused.
As far as the artillery being able to take out Ethereal units, yes, that's why I have Runes on every one. BUT...I'd much rather utilize them against his big bads first. Once those are gone, then I'll turn them on his troops. The Grudge Thrower is the only one that will be dedicated to wiping out units - his Necro bunker mostly. If I can at least put pressure on him, then that'll be a huge advantage. I had to drop the RoPenetrating to save points. I concentrated a lot on making sure my main combat blocks were both ItP and Stubborn. He will undoubtedly have tons of troops for grinding me down, and I'll have to slog through a lot of them, So I don't want a blender vampire swooping in after grinding and grinding on a horde just to quickly do several wounds and make me run. Not really sure where else I'd save 40 points. I suppose I could save 20 points by dropping the Trollhammer Torpedo for a pair of Drakefire Pistols on the Irondrake Champ, but I like having that backup shot for things like putting that last wound on a Mortis Engine (I hate that thing), Terrorgheist, or Black Coach. It also has a 24" range, so it makes them a bit more of a threat , longer. Add in Grimm's reroll To Hit ability, then it becomes MUCH more reliable. That's my thinking anyway.
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Post by gregwarhamsters on Jan 9, 2018 23:06:59 GMT
I played a dwarf vs VC recently, I should have taken a bolt thrower with Ro seeking as my opponent favoured flyers. I've gotta agree the Ethereal things like hexwraiths are easy for default warmachines like organ guns however a he used a couple of wraiths his blender lord in a unit of 67 skeletons. Talk about ablative wounds!
Greg
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