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Post by askaval30 on Feb 14, 2018 15:14:16 GMT
just saw this on BoLS: www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/02/aos-gotrek-the-slayer-returns.htmlmaybe if they keep resurrecting beloved Old World characters then they might start resurrecting rules and perhaps then the old world itself? is it to soon to hope for a retcon? Anyhow, having those two dragged back into the AoS setting has me moderately outraged. |
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Post by mottdon on Feb 14, 2018 15:51:18 GMT
Oh my. They are just going to cherry-pick the most popular Warhammer characters and stick them in AoS so that they can draw loyal fans of the characters into "their" game. They're essentially picking up their favorite toys out of the trash, dusting them off a bit and forcing a square peg in a round hole.
Personally, I think that they were hoping that the game (AoS) would be popular enough in itself that they didn't have to "resurrect" old world characters like these, but now that it isn't the hit they wanted it to be, their having to fall back on this plan. I'm sure that this is also a test run to see how popular old world characters will be and if they should bring back more. Whatever happens, I don't think that they'll bring back the old world, but rather, shoe-horn in popular characters like these, no matter how ridiculous of a stretch it may be. I mean, of course, Felix will be a Stormcast Eternal because that'll help sell their new race that they are pushing so much!
All that said, I don't really mind them doing things like this, since it can, in a way, move our game (8th) forward too. We have to use a touch of imagination for the Old World and a square base, but that's not hard to do. I just hate the way they declared that the Old World was destroyed (so that people would stop playing 8th and pick up AoS) but they are plucking the choicest morsels to still suck every penny out of the character. If you want a new separate game, create new separate characters and give our characters a glorious, heroic death that they deserve. They could've let the Old World live on, along with ITS characters, and created their new AoS game that used the same world, just with new "Realms" for invasion or exploration. That way, you could play either your massed battle games or small skirmish games like AoS. So. Simple.
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Post by frozenfood on Feb 14, 2018 19:35:47 GMT
Felix is a stormcast...fabulous.
Sticking with the books I have thank you.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 14, 2018 20:18:57 GMT
Many of the biggest characters from the Old Worlde made their way into AoS
Archaon, Glottkin, Festus, Valkia, Nagash, Neferata, Alarielle, for example.
Tyrion is in the lore.
Gotrek was planned to be in the AoS lore from the beginning as in his last Olde Worlde book he was set up to cross over into the new AoS world (won't spoil the story in this post.)
I guess looking at the list it's the 'immortal' characters that tended to cross over which makes sense giving the storyline.
With that framing makes sense the only way Felix makes it is by being stormcast - he'd be dead of old age otherwise.
And what's Gotrek without his manling!
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Post by askaval30 on Feb 14, 2018 20:42:26 GMT
What's Gotrek without the world he knew? He probably thinks he is still trapped in some cruel Hell in the Chaos Wastes... His Slayer Oath now a mockery given the constant, pointless and eternal fighting that surrounds him. I can almost understand the crazed immortal beings like Alarielle or Nagash but a flesh and blood dwarf? Oh no wait... now he finds out they are called Dwarf! Talk about culture shock..
Honestly I feel sorry for the poor bastard...
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Post by mottdon on Feb 14, 2018 21:23:28 GMT
But my whole point is that it doesn't matter the character or lore. It could've been some Bretonnian (Green Knight for example?) who, if had been given enough books and attention as Gotrek and Felix, would've found some way over into AoS. That could still happen if GW sees a profit in sales or attraction of new players. Basically, they're trying to tie the 30+ years of story and fluff that is in the Old World into AoS and simply skip a lot of the character building that helped create the Old World. It's kind of insulting that they are taking the 8th edition world and throwing out all game play, setting and future development and using elements of it to further enhance a completely different game that suffers from it's own lack of development. This all would've been so much more palpable if they had simply extended the Old World instead of ending it.
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Post by KevinC on Feb 15, 2018 1:59:00 GMT
I'm really not sure how I feel about this. I've read the entire Gotrek & Felix saga, and I like that many WFB characters are in AOS (Nagash, Morathi,etc.), but I don't know...
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Post by frozenfood on Feb 15, 2018 7:55:03 GMT
Playing devil's advocate here...
One of the problems we had with GW was that they killed off the Old World.
Now they are integrating lots of the fluff of that world into AoS.
Is that not a good thing?
They are listening to the grumbling and in a few years time it will seem like the Old World lives again...
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Post by alanthemoderate on Feb 15, 2018 8:05:19 GMT
I actually heavily dislike this from the opposite perspective. I got into warhammer through Age of Sigmar, not Warhammer Fantasy (Like presumably the rest of you did). Thus seeing characters from the 'World that was' return makes me feel like GW thinks AoS can't stand on it's own Lore. I understand people like Nagash, Sigmar, Lady of the Lake, etc. But common people returning to the mortal realm in order to basically be fan service disheartens me.
Why can't we get a book about the Knight Keldrek instead? He is a Stormcast who turned away from Sigmar to serve Nagash, and if GW can't turn that into a fantastically interesting story, then I don't have any faith in their writing.
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Post by And again... on Feb 15, 2018 9:17:44 GMT
It's fun how the game that killed Warhammer keeps pillaging it from fluff and art too, the self proclaimed new GW can't create charismatic characters as Gotrek, they're incompetent.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 15, 2018 10:51:24 GMT
The game that killed Warhammer - Kings of War is indeed pillaging quite a bit from Warhammer that’s been their whole business model. Using Warhammers Fluff and Art to siphon sales away from WFB is one of the factors in its demise. There are other companies that do the same without their own games.
GW stealing their own IP? A bit absurd. GW a priori based AoS on the old world. Almost all the armies in AoS are model lines from the old world whose core art and fluff didn’t change. The core storyline in AoS is based on escapees from the old world creating a new haven (and then losing it to chaos and now fighting to get it back.)
Many of the most important characters from the Old World became demigods at the start of AoS or were purposefully brought to the new world during the transition.
If you had read the last Old World book of the Gotrek series you would know they planned for Gotrek to be present in AoS. It’s not an after thought it was planned during the end times.
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Post by mottdon on Feb 15, 2018 13:31:52 GMT
I think that the problem is that it feels force-fed and somewhat insulting. Like was mentioned earlier, they could simply develop new characters and continue with their new, completely different game, but instead they resurrect beloved characters from our game that they destroyed, in order to capitalize on a proven fan base demographic.
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Post by gjnoronh on Feb 15, 2018 13:47:59 GMT
I think the folks on this forum are missing what's actually been published in the AoS world: www.blacklibrary.com/warhammer-age-of-sigmarDon't forget to scroll right and left on that page. They're building some pretty interesting characters and lore. I just finished Bladestorm which I enjoyed and was intrigued by the lead characters. Here's a review www.mengelminiatures.com/2016/08/review-bladestorm.htmlMind you I think Gotrek and Felix are arguably some of the best two characters ever produced by black library. Probably only beaten out by Eisenhorn and Ravenor from Dan Abnett. They certainly are tapping into an established and highly successful property. But this is the same company that kept churning out novels (many sub par) about Gotrek and Felix long after their creator William King left GW. Nathan Longs books just aren't as good. |
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Post by And again... on Feb 15, 2018 14:39:58 GMT
Interesting lore?
It's only a non-sense mix of Planescape,WoW and pillaged Warhammer. The reforging after stormcast death?Just a thing to differentiate them from Space Marines ''Oh look how tragic they are they lose bits of memory everytime they come back to life '' .
Aos is the game that killed Warhammer.
Of course the new GW based the ''new'' lore on World of Warhammer they are not able to create something like Sigmar, Nagash, Chaos Deities...
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Post by askaval30 on Feb 15, 2018 17:42:23 GMT
Now I *might* be moved by the vitriol surrounding the soulless corporate mentality that saw them destroy 30+ years of lore and setting...
But I'm sorry...if the opening stanza of this glorious new world you (GW) just created cannot stand on its own creative merits and relies of a pastiche of the 'Best of the Old World' characters to prop yours up... well, it is deserving of loathing.
I mean they managed to make a colossal space dragon/orbital station/Steampunk Dwarf/immortal defenders/infinite planar realm Blood War sound boring and trite as all hell... which makes the IP grab reasons underlying Ogors, Elves and Orrukks all that more apparent... Now maybe I'm old, and maybe in 20 years AoS will have reached the level we used to have with the mechanics and lore of 8th Ed, but I'll be damned if I ever call my dwarves Dwarf, it's just... dumb.
And I realize this was very tangential to the topic, but I am loathe to let go of a grudge...
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