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Post by knoffles on Mar 6, 2018 19:09:24 GMT
Is there a maximum number of attacks (a cap) that a model can get? I’m sure I read there was (maybe 10) but not sure if I’m confusing editions.
An example could be a Doombull gaining attacks for each round of combat won.
I will see if I can find an answer tonight but thought I’d see if anyone knew the answer offhand.
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 6, 2018 19:34:37 GMT
It's a bit unclear.
Stats are capped at 10
However models like the Mountain Chimera (from lore of beasts in BRB) have variable attacks (4d6 IIRC) that would be more then ten.
Are the buffs from Bloodgreed increasing the minotaurs base stat (capped at ten) or an uncapped bonus to the stat? It's not in the rules and GW never FAQ'd it.
Same is true for any other buff.
It doesn't take that many rounds of combat for a doombull to cross ten attacks so it's a pertinent question.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 19:37:51 GMT
I think unless specified it caps at 10. That's how I've always played it anyway.
End times introduced models with a stat over 10 but where that was the case they explicitly allowed it (Someones wounds...Glottkin maybe? And when end times Archaon unleashes the daemon in his sword he has 12 attacks)
I'd love to be wrong though.
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Post by knoffles on Mar 6, 2018 19:49:08 GMT
Yep just found it so agree it’s 10 unless otherwise stated
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 6, 2018 20:01:52 GMT
Here is an exhaustive discussion: warhammer-empire.com/theforum/index.php?topic=48475.0Here is my conclusion (p. 4): There may be a way to merge all views. - All Attacks are part of the Attack characteristic (as per BRB p. 48) - The Attack characteristic cannot normally exceed 10 (as per BRB p. 3). - However, a random characteristic value can go above 10 (as per FAQ). If you have a fixed number of Attacks at the start of a round of close combat, this cannot exceed 10. This includes all the Attacks (from whatever source) you actually can count: profile, weapons, active spells, special rules (Frenzy, Bloodgreed...) Attacks from some special rules like Blood Fury etc. are part of the Attack characteristic, but are not fixed - you do not know at the beginning of a round of close combat how many Attacks that will deliver. Models with such a rule can be said to have a random characteristic value, and thus fall under the FAQ. This could be just as valid as a total cap on Attacks; and an FAQ seems warranted - but that is unlikely to be forthcoming. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2018 20:16:18 GMT
I think that's a pretty good synopsis/interpretation of the rule. Attacks that can be measured/accounted for cannot go above 10, but other abilities/gear that would give you random attacks or something akin to it(weapons/abilities that add +D3/D6 attacks, the vampire bloodline ability red fury, the Beastmen Ramhorn Helm, etc...) CAN let you get above 10 attacks in a round.
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Post by gjnoronh on Mar 6, 2018 20:21:11 GMT
Similar note is how far does a barded empire cavalry model with speed of light cast on them move without marching? 10/14? Do they march 20 or 28?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 6, 2018 20:30:40 GMT
You are probably referring to Birona's Timewarp. And yes, same principle. So, the movement is capped at 10 (20 when marching) for the Knights.
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Post by mottdon on Mar 6, 2018 20:36:51 GMT
That's simply because doubling the measured movement characteristic isn't random, therefore, capping it at M10, correct? You'd know exactly what the outcome would be. Now, if the spell were to increase their movement by D6, and you rolled a 6, then their movement could be increased to 13, right?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Mar 6, 2018 20:42:41 GMT
Yep. Same for the Random Movement special rule:
BRB p. 74: Models with the Random Movement special rule do not have a Movement characteristic.
Therefore, it cannot be capped at 10.
And as per FAQ (Official Update Version 1.9 p.14):
Q: Does Birona’s Timewarp affect units with the Random Movement or other movement special rules? (Reference)
A: Yes, however far they can normally move, it will be doubled. For example, a unit with the Random Movement (2D6) special rule rolls a 9. This would then be doubled to 18.
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Post by mottdon on Mar 6, 2018 21:29:32 GMT
My Steam Tanks thank you.
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Post by strutsagget on Mar 6, 2018 22:09:37 GMT
Thx all! Fascinating discussion.
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Post by knoffles on Mar 6, 2018 23:17:05 GMT
Yep cheers gents. Comprehensive answers as always!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 7, 2018 0:48:17 GMT
I've always played the Ghorgon's additional attacks as being uncapped....never had a problem with this and most of the time he's dead before he gets past 10 anyway.
It makes the 275 points a little more palatable. Best I've ever gotten to was 13 attacks.
I agree that the base profile seems to be limited to 10 for all things except wounds.
If I recall the first unit to break the 10 wound barrier was the Empire Land Ship from Tamurkhan... setting the blueprint for units like the Glottkin to later follow.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Mar 7, 2018 0:48:19 GMT
I've always played the Ghorgon's additional attacks as being uncapped....never had a problem with this and most of the time he's dead before he gets past 10 anyway.
It makes the 275 points a little more palatable. Best I've ever gotten to was 13 attacks.
I agree that the base profile seems to be limited to 10 for all things except wounds.
If I recall the first unit to break the 10 wound barrier was the Empire Land Ship from Tamurkhan... setting the blueprint for units like the Glottkin to later follow.
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