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Post by gjnoronh on Nov 10, 2015 11:16:40 GMT
Hey all EEFLers thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate the strong EEFL turn out at our event. Rich FYI you were leading the pack on paint based on judges scoring prior to players choice votes your total package was very solid. You scored a ton of points for basing/conversions/display board/theming. To hit top tier pure "brush work" (the first line item) on the rubric we used would be a little lower then Mikki's level - Birdoff, Larry Mottola, Mike Norton are all good NE examples of that. The scoring rubric is written so there are lots of ways to get to the top score trying to reflect different ways to produce what we all recognize when we see it is an 'awesome' army. Yours is very much that! One question I know I'm thinking about (and I suspect some EEFL users) is what happens next year. My plan is to put out a poll in about six months (about the time we are making hotel reservations) to this years attendees asking who plans to come in 2016 and what system they want to play, what their second choice system might be if they are willing to play a second choice. I'll probably follow it up with the players who were here in 2014 but not in 15. The guys who voted with their wallet this year are the ones who get first dibs and most weight though on providing feedback on next year (Yes Nick that includes even KoW fanatics like yourself  ) Then hopefully at the 3-5 month mark I'll be able to formally announce an event and open registration with a final comp pack. I know this group is by definition strongly committed to 8th but I am curious in the next year if despite dallying with KoW the larger 8th ed player community in the region gravitates back to 8th or maybe 9th (there are several midwest 9th GT's coming up.) Its worth noting despite all the internet blood letting I had folks on both sides of the GT say they were interested in playing the other system in the future as well as their 'core game.' Votes for best army didn't seem to have a preference for one system or another. For me that's a sign that allowing players of different systems to share space and interact in a positive way has potential for synergistic growth for all the systems. As a result I'm sure I'll run at least two systems as it worked for us this year. I think being open to the broader community was important as was the social media exposure (forums like this,twitter,facebook, podcast ads.) We had 22 players with 13 of them being new to the NE warhammer fantasy GT scene. Note there were 5 for 8th. Take that those who said warhammer is dead! I was really excited about that and the potential for the future. I think we have the potential to grow the community back to the levels of the last few years. If other TO's in their area aren't selling their events out for a system you aren't interested in it's worth asking them about whether they want to try running two system GT's as well. It worked for me and may be a venue to have TO's and other gamers reevaluate the reported 'demise' of 8th, and 'failure' of AoS. If someone is willing to share the burden of running the game day portion of the event instead of playing and can bring in the registrations they may be willing. |
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Post by KevinC on Nov 10, 2015 16:05:43 GMT
Gary, thanks so much for running the event! I really wish I could have made it.
In regards to your last statement above, if next year the main game system is not WFB 8th edition, we (the EEFL community) might be interested in running a smaller WFB 8th edition tournament alongside what you are running if you have the space for it. Even if we generate a small 10-person 8th edition tournament, I think that would be cool.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 10, 2015 17:34:06 GMT
I'd be willing to aid in anything that gets people playing a game they love.
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Post by gjnoronh on Nov 10, 2015 21:40:03 GMT
Guys I can't believe folks on this forum of all places are saying this is likely going to be the last 8th Ed tournament they are going to attend. Forget that - if you build it and publicize it people will come. I had five new players to the NE GT scene out of 14 - I know I'm going to lose at least one of my 14 next year to KoW but if I can get that number up to 20-30 I'll be in a lot better shape. I don't know if that is going to happen next year but I hope so. When talking about getting TO's to run parallel events you can bet I'm one who is really hoping 8th will happen for me next year. One thing Da Boyz pointed out to me there are a lot of gamers missing 8th who after all the internet angst about AoS went into hiding. They aren't EEFL members they aren't necessarily hooked up on forums. Your job is to get them out of hiding - get the word out (in your stores, on twitter, facebook etc) about the fact folks are still playing 8th and are loving it. I told some EEFL guys that I'd love to do other 8th rogue trader tournaments in the next year in the Rochester area. If we know we are going to get 6-10 we can make it a go. I am going to ask my gaming group if some of the guys want to do 8th - I know some of them aren't feeling AoS and are staying home if I gave them an 8th ed option maybe my stores group would get a shot in the arm. The key is to play _publically_ if folks are just playing at home it's hard for anyone else to know that other folks are playing 8th. Get to your FLGS and meet up someone else to play. Get to GT's and make sure your experience is on the web in places those 8th guys in hiding can see. Talk to your store owners about what you are doing - all they care is folks buy the toys from them - help them recapture those GW gamers who have stopped buying. I'd also suggest it doesn't do anyone any good to speak evil of AoS - the store owners are going to have more new players who have heard about AoS and come in looking for a game - if 8th and AoS guys are playing alongside each other it's easier to have cross pollination (in both directions) if 8th players come across as haters who are talking about the GW product the store is depending on to support the line they aren't going to want us around. Mordheim/Bloodbowl/3rd edition D and D all had long lives through on line tools after the core game's demise. Unlike those games new toys and IP are coming out for the fantasy setting as Kevin has already proven you can adapt those new AoS items to keep the 8th universe alive and growing I have been loving the concepts behind X Wing and admiring the principles successful growth. It's designed very smartly to avoid many of the problems that brought 8th to an end (high barriers to entry, easily stolen IP, lack of constant purchasing interests for existing gamers etc.) in the process of learning more about it I came across this podcast I would highly recommend listening to Episode 3 starting at around the 40 minute mark when they talk about how to build an x wing community at your local store. novasquadronradio.com/category/podcastepisodes/page/4/ |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 10, 2015 22:13:29 GMT
5) Empire (Cathy) - Same army Rich faced his game 3. We ended up deploying in opposite corners so spent several turns closing the gap. The dwarves held strong in close combat against various charges. Big win. It's tough to scum points off the Dwarfs. I knew that to get a crack at 3rd best general, I needed a 15+ point win. I put all my eggs into Dan making a mistake and letting me get a flank charge on either the (1) 40 clansmen, or (2) Hammerers. He did not, he was smart. My Cathayans ran into walls of Dorf. The humans bounced off said walls and cried as only humies can. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 10, 2015 22:19:19 GMT
3) Empire (Cathay) : draw This was a good game. The 10-10 score, which ended up being 13-11 (battles points), was not indicative. You ever had one of those games where you feel like you are winning in all phases... and then you count up victory points? That was Rich in this game. I think victory points were 1248 to 1219. Truth be told, Rich was 1 turn away from tabling me. Like, total annihilation. The MONSTER MASH was in full effect - as at one point, my block of 25 greatswords survived 2+ rounds of Combat versus (1) a demon prince, (2) a Shaggoth, and (3) a GrapeApe GoreBeast Chariot. So much Thunderstomp. So much killy. The Hellblaster shot 9 of 10 Khorne warriors dead on bottom of T6. If I rolled one more wound, or if Rich failed one more save, those 250+ points would have meant I won. If I had won this game, I would have felt dirty and sticky. |
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 10, 2015 22:30:49 GMT
Here’s a weird conundrum –
This tournament felt more fun. I think it was because I didn’t see and feel as much UBER-Gaminess. I like 8th, I like the rules – but, godamnisaygodamn, I have seen folks bend them thar rules. WFB has so many rules, I can’t keep track of them all. Especially for someone that constantly muddle 4th edition and 5th edition and 6th edition rules all together.
IMHO, the Uber Gamers {WAAC} have tended to go towards KoW, and I think that is a match made in heaven. I don’t like the competitiveness of some tournament scenes, and I don’t miss a few of those folks at tourneys. I am much into the “do what feels right” and “this game play should be real world intuitive”. I like making up rules on the fly as fits the game and scenario. I like dicing off so that 4+ it goes your way, 1-2-3 it goes my way. Neither of those is really conducive to a FAIR tournament.
My ideal tournament is essentially BasementHammer x 20. Get a bunch of like-minded people together and play some games over the weekend. I love different scenarios. I enjoy playing new opponents. I really dig seeing armies that are new to me!
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Post by gjnoronh on Nov 11, 2015 0:59:29 GMT
I agree with your sense of the room Will folks seemed to be having more fun games then I remember in late 8th. It's a little funny as the comp set (ETC) isn't that terribly restrictive. We had only 1 player take all 5 alloted ETC pool choices. FWIW I'm not sure the very serious gamers are in KoW I think they are more into Malifaux at this point (all the ETC guys for example.) It was a good feel for the game and made me think a bit about comp sets if I get enough player interest in 8th next year. EEFL comp system?
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Post by TheREALricksalamone on Nov 11, 2015 1:17:43 GMT
I just need to say I love this conversation and Will's last post perfectly stayed how I feel. It was almost refreshing that "some of those guys weren't around anymore". Granted, there was no shortage of dudes trying to stomp face...but think about it like this: The top 2 players overall ran some pretty gross armies, right. Stuff you had no answer for. Stuff that told you "put your minis down on the table but you are about to get stomped". Then there's me at number 3. Imagine my weak fluffy list made it to the top 3. Yes I know the score included sports and paint, but Jason was right up there in those categories. Jason and I, in particular are not known as competitive tournament players but we could almost hang in this new scene. Any of you could hang, I love it. I thought about bringing my 11 year old son to play last weekend but it didn't work out. Except for the top 3 armies I would have felt fine with him playing any of the other participants. Nothing against those guys by there primary goal was not to have fun for 2 hours with their opponent. They were simply there to win. Their prerogative. If this is what warhammer tournaments look like now, I am thrilled and will play in every one I can make it to. The days of 60 players are gone. Good riddance. I know Gary has a bottom line so we just need to show up but not cry that the old days of 60-75 players are gone. Losing some players was maybe the best thing for us... We are almost there guys...
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Post by KevinC on Nov 11, 2015 2:41:03 GMT
Gary for President! We said!
Gary is right that we should not be negative. We should not be speaking about the death of 8th edition, etc. We are on this forum to maintain 8th edition and even recruit new players!
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Nov 11, 2015 14:56:03 GMT
Any tournament scene should ENCOURAGE dudes to bring their 11 year old kids to play.
They are the future of the hobby, you need new life blood.
It can't just be all sweaty old men hunched over plywood boards in stone basements playing by candlelight.
Also, the candles are fueled by whale fat.
I would 100% say there have been tournaments in the past 2 years I have attended that any 11-year old, or even 14-year old, would have VERY LITTLE fun playing in.
I got into this hobby when I was 11 cause it was fun, not cause of a competitive tournament scene.
Who cares who wins -
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Post by mottdon on Nov 11, 2015 14:57:06 GMT
Well, color me impressed! That sounds like a wonderful environment to play at! I wish I could have been there. Maybe one day I'll manage to garner the money to travel that far... Sounds like the gaming group I'd like too.
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Post by avatarofbugman on Nov 13, 2015 21:02:24 GMT
Gary, there is no way this is the last. Salamone and I are already talking about playing out more as a result of this weekend.
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Post by dannytee on Nov 14, 2015 21:10:45 GMT
5) Empire (Cathy) - Same army Rich faced his game 3. We ended up deploying in opposite corners so spent several turns closing the gap. The dwarves held strong in close combat against various charges. Big win. It's tough to scum points off the Dwarfs. I knew that to get a crack at 3rd best general, I needed a 15+ point win. I put all my eggs into Dan making a mistake and letting me get a flank charge on either the (1) 40 clansmen, or (2) Hammerers. He did not, he was smart. My Cathayans ran into walls of Dorf. The humans bounced off said walls and cried as only humies can. I'll add too that the impassible terrain roughly in the middle of the table allowed me to anchor one flank (the warriors) against the table edge and the other (hammerers) against the impassible. This was a big help to me and without it there you would have been able to easily flank me. |
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