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Post by grandmasterwang on Dec 12, 2018 6:57:27 GMT
Even then... In my last game vs VC, his Blender Lord took down my Thorogrim Grudgebearer in one round of CC. Thorogrim was at full strength too. That's brutal considering Thorogrim costs more points. That's unfortunate. In a 1 vs 1 sense the 8th edition Thorgrim is no match for the 7th Edition one.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 12, 2018 12:54:46 GMT
Even then... In my last game vs VC, his Blender Lord took down my Thorogrim Grudgebearer in one round of CC. Thorogrim was at full strength too. That's brutal considering Thorogrim costs more points. That's unfortunate. In a 1 vs 1 sense the 8th edition Thorgrim is no match for the 7th Edition one. Yeah. Thorogrim looks great on paper, but for 650 points??? Dang.
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Post by Horace on Dec 12, 2018 17:29:37 GMT
You're super unlucky dieing with Thorgrim, he's tough as nails to kill. The problem with him is although he wounds on a 2/3 he is only strength 4 and doesn't get any armour modifiers. He really struggles to get through any semblance of armour even if he will mostly hit and roll a lot of wounds.
Most infuriating.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 12, 2018 17:33:20 GMT
So do you think if his weapon added +2 to his Strength, he'd be worth the 650 pt price tag?
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Post by Horace on Dec 12, 2018 17:58:30 GMT
So do you think if his weapon added +2 to his Strength, he'd be worth the 650 pt price tag? Quite possibly. He has 4 throne bearers, 4 ASF, mostly rerolling, WS 7 attacks which always wound on a 2 or 3. He has a 2+/4++ and a 2++ against KB or multi wounds. Toughness 5 and 7 wounds as well as being ItP and Stubborn which he can pass to units (as well as his super hatred) If his weapon added strength, even at the cost of the ASF making it neutral striking, he would rival most top level characters I expect. Or if it was D6 wounds against everything not just Giants
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Post by mottdon on Dec 12, 2018 19:25:47 GMT
I agree. He'd definitely be one of the strongest CC characters. But things like him not being able to take a "Look Out Sir!" roll, low movement value and high price tag would keep him from being OP. As of right now, the low strength value, only being able to do multiple wounds against Giants, and on a roll of 7+ for Ancestral Grudge (the Book of Grudges adds +3 to the roll), he and his unit gain what basically equates to Eternal Hatred (BUT it does not say anywhere that the rest of the army benefits from Hatred, as a result of 5 or 6 would - not sure this is better. A simple statement of "All results maintain a lower roll's effects" would've made that possible.), all count against him IMO.
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Post by Horace on Dec 12, 2018 19:40:34 GMT
Well it states "your army recieves a +3 modifier" on the Ancestral Grudge table. This means that your entire army will hate the opposition on a roll of a 2+. Obviously only Thorgrim and his unit gain Eternal Hatrad on a 4.
*Oh I see what you're saying, I guess people argue that the 5 or 6 roll no longer applies?
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Post by knoffles on Dec 13, 2018 7:50:10 GMT
I’d never notice that. The way it’s written on a roll of 2-3 the army will get hatred but on a 4+ Thorgrim and his unit get eternal hatred but the army won’t get hatred. I digress back to Vampires. What do folks think of large blocks of crypt horrors backed up with Morris engines. I’ve never faced them but can see they’d be potentially nasty
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Post by strutsagget on Dec 13, 2018 8:38:18 GMT
So I who never felt the wrath of von Carstein family tree. Was Vampires ever at the top of the tournament scene.
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Post by mottdon on Dec 13, 2018 13:36:32 GMT
I've only ever had problems with Crypt Horrors in low-point games. Usually with a Vampire in tow. The fact that they get no save is their downfall. Plus, they only work well in large numbers when they can soak up the massive amounts of damage they'll be taking. Glass Cannon and all.
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Post by sedge on Dec 13, 2018 13:58:44 GMT
Crypt Horrors aren't a glass cannon - they're 3W, T5 and have a 5++ regen - it's the Vargheists (T4, no saves) who are their glass cannon equivalent. The Horrors can be nasty in big hordes plus a Mortis Engine to boost their regen to 4++, and not being Vampiric or Monsters, they get the full benefit of healing from Invocation of Nehek. That said, their damage output is just S4 poisoned attacks, and they're a massive points sink for a horde, so you rarely see them in units of 18+ that's needed for that.
Has no-one encountered a Black Knight Bus, loaded with vampire characters?
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Post by knoffles on Dec 13, 2018 18:11:57 GMT
I’ve only faced a knight bus once with two vamps (one being a blender). I was using my wood elves and 60 swiftshiver shots + 10 no armour save waywatchers shots deleted it in a single turn (with the exception of the vamps), so I’m perhaps not the best judge of it but with a base S & T of 4, killing blow, banner of the barrows and a 2+ save, I can see why they could be considered some of the best cav in the game and the vamps just increase the nastiness (though remove ethereal, so there is that at least).
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Post by mottdon on Dec 13, 2018 19:31:52 GMT
My bad! I was thinking Crypt Ghouls!
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