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Post by jamesacon on Jan 7, 2022 10:24:21 GMT
Hey all, so my covid lockdown project was building a playable beastmen army. I read the tactics page on here religiously (shout out to knoffles, that guide is amazing!) and it helped inspire me to build the models. This is pretty much what I have built, besides some minotaurs. Keen for some feedback and other opinions! Thanks in advance Lords Beastlord (245) -magic items : armour of destiny, crown of command, sword of battle. He's there for the stubborn and to help get to that crucial leadership 10! Hoping to get off primal fury as much as possible and to help with units running away! Great Bray-shaman (320) -Level 4 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Chalice of Dark Rain, Jagged Dagger, Fencers blades. My big caster, hoping to get savage beast of horrors off on this guy to take people by surprise. I'm relying on his T5 and WS10 to keep him out of trouble. Went for an all comers build with the chalice. HeroesBray-shaman (140) -Level 2 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Dispel scroll, ironcurse icon Basically scroll caddy and to help get all the spells I want from beasts. Wargor (206) -BSB : The beast banner -Gnarled hide -heavy armour and shield The infamous 206 BSB wargor I read about in the tactics. I am keen to give him a go, but I feel with no ward save, he might not last long. He will be sitting in a horde of 50 gor, so I might be able to protect him if he stays to one side, since the frontage is huge. Core
Gor Herd x 50 (425) -Full command -Double hand weapons The warogor and level 4 shaman go in here. Hoping to get them up to S5 with the banner and wildform. The frontage is a bit confronting because I have never used a horde of 25 mm bases! So I think there will be a learning curve here. Gor Herd x 20 (185) -Full command -Shields These guys are my beastmen ambush unit! Have to have at least one, otherwise why play this army?! But if ambush does not seem like an ideal ploy, can put the level 2 shaman in here. Tuskgor chariot (80) Tuskgor chariot (80) Flank protectors, chaff clearers, can help combats. I use chariots often with my WoC (which are faaaaar superior) so I know not to expect the same level of damage output, but the general versatility still applies. Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Chaff and screens, the musicians are there because I have points remaining. Special Bestigor herd x 30 (405) -great weapons -full command -standard of discipline This is where my Beastlord will be bunkered. And the level 2 shaman if the gor unit is ambushing. I read on the tactics to go all out and go horde with them, but with only 30 I dont think its worth it, and much prefer to run them 6 wide for a bunker. Sure its less attacks, but how often would I get a horde formation into base contact with all models swinging? Centigors x 10 (285) -spears and shields -full command I love these guys and the models are sick! They are very expensive for a cav unit (its beastmen haha) but I wanted something with swiftstride and a high movement to help get the flank on opponents. I am contemplating running them as 2 units of 5, but want to give 10 a go first. Razorgor (55) From what I have read, this piggy is a great chaff clearer and well worth its points. Grand total = 2492 Hoping to get a game with these guys next month once the covid numbers come down in my area. Curios about what you all think and any advice to help an upcoming beastmen player!
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Post by grandmasterwang on Jan 7, 2022 11:40:51 GMT
Hey all, so my covid lockdown project was building a playable beastmen army. I read the tactics page on here religiously (shout out to knoffles, that guide is amazing!) and it helped inspire me to build the models. This is pretty much what I have built, besides some minotaurs. Keen for some feedback and other opinions! Thanks in advance Lords Beastlord (245) -magic items : armour of destiny, crown of command, sword of battle. He's there for the stubborn and to help get to that crucial leadership 10! Hoping to get off primal fury as much as possible and to help with units running away! Great Bray-shaman (320) -Level 4 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Chalice of Dark Rain, Jagged Dagger, Fencers blades. My big caster, hoping to get savage beast of horrors off on this guy to take people by surprise. I'm relying on his T5 and WS10 to keep him out of trouble. Went for an all comers build with the chalice. HeroesBray-shaman (140) -Level 2 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Dispel scroll, ironcurse icon Basically scroll caddy and to help get all the spells I want from beasts. Wargor (206) -BSB : The beast banner -Gnarled hide -heavy armour and shield The infamous 206 BSB wargor I read about in the tactics. I am keen to give him a go, but I feel with no ward save, he might not last long. He will be sitting in a horde of 50 gor, so I might be able to protect him if he stays to one side, since the frontage is huge. Core
Gor Herd x 50 (425) -Full command -Double hand weapons The warogor and level 4 shaman go in here. Hoping to get them up to S5 with the banner and wildform. The frontage is a bit confronting because I have never used a horde of 25 mm bases! So I think there will be a learning curve here. Gor Herd x 20 (185) -Full command -Shields These guys are my beastmen ambush unit! Have to have at least one, otherwise why play this army?! But if ambush does not seem like an ideal ploy, can put the level 2 shaman in here. Tuskgor chariot (80) Tuskgor chariot (80) Flank protectors, chaff clearers, can help combats. I use chariots often with my WoC (which are faaaaar superior) so I know not to expect the same level of damage output, but the general versatility still applies. Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Chaff and screens, the musicians are there because I have points remaining. Special Bestigor herd x 30 (405) -great weapons -full command -standard of discipline This is where my Beastlord will be bunkered. And the level 2 shaman if the gor unit is ambushing. I read on the tactics to go all out and go horde with them, but with only 30 I dont think its worth it, and much prefer to run them 6 wide for a bunker. Sure its less attacks, but how often would I get a horde formation into base contact with all models swinging? Centigors x 10 (285) -spears and shields -full command I love these guys and the models are sick! They are very expensive for a cav unit (its beastmen haha) but I wanted something with swiftstride and a high movement to help get the flank on opponents. I am contemplating running them as 2 units of 5, but want to give 10 a go first. Razorgor (55) From what I have read, this piggy is a great chaff clearer and well worth its points. Grand total = 2492 Hoping to get a game with these guys next month once the covid numbers come down in my area. Curios about what you all think and any advice to help an upcoming beastmen player! Welcome fellow Beastlord. I second that knoffles is the man and his guide is great (great guy irl as well)! Solid, solid list.....but with 8 spare points (assuming you have the models) add a raider or gor as there's not really a draw back to the extra wound. You have gone with a very standard list which is a superb starting point to suss the army and figure out what you like unit and playstyle wise. I think that non horde Bestigor at 30 is probably the right call due to the number and you already having the gor horde. You can always reform during the battle. As the Lord is stubborn, it may be worth the extra attacks but it's really (imo of course) hard to nail ideal combats for 2 hordes as the opponent will do everything the stop you getting the Bestigor in combat the way you want. I think this is really a great starting list and I hope you enjoy the Beastmen
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Post by DemolitionMan on Jan 7, 2022 16:25:45 GMT
Go for it! Play some games and have some fun!
That's a more-than-solid collection to start playing with mate, and I'm a firm believer in just playing some games and coming to your own conclusions rather than relying on other people too much but just some food for thought:
The centigors are really very fast and look scary. They are also a moving wide and tall blob of hard cover. They aren't exactly cheap for this use, but I find that if they can't charge turn 1 marching them up the board will force your opponent to either remove them as a threat (and therefore spare your slower blocks of infantry) or shoot through them and take a -2 to hit penalty. They might even soak up some spells too.
Also, give the level 2 a run as a death mage with the skin of man, or have him join a unit of ungor raiders. In the absence of war machines the ability of Death spells to delete things like doomwheels, stone throwers etc turns 1 and 2 is golden.
Whatever you do make sure you update us all on here, always enjoy reading how other people get on and what their ideas are :-)
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Post by jamesacon on Jan 7, 2022 21:39:17 GMT
Thanks for the great feedback guys! I am happy to see that my collection is solid, my main army is WoC so not used to so many models! Unfortunately that's all I have built at the moment, so the 8 points extra will have to go in perhaps another magic item. Great suggestion on the lore of death shaman with skin of man. Will definitely give that a run after some initial matches, as I was contemplating how to deal with war machines. Also I like your thoughts on centigors, maybe it would be better to run them as two 5 man units for those reasons. But might not be threatening enough to draw attention? Hmmm as you said, best to get some games in and see for myself. Thanks again
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Post by knoffles on Jan 8, 2022 12:27:29 GMT
Hey all, so my covid lockdown project was building a playable beastmen army. I read the tactics page on here religiously (shout out to knoffles, that guide is amazing!) and it helped inspire me to build the models. This is pretty much what I have built, besides some minotaurs. Keen for some feedback and other opinions! Thanks in advance Lords Beastlord (245) -magic items : armour of destiny, crown of command, sword of battle. He's there for the stubborn and to help get to that crucial leadership 10! Hoping to get off primal fury as much as possible and to help with units running away! Great Bray-shaman (320) -Level 4 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Chalice of Dark Rain, Jagged Dagger, Fencers blades. My big caster, hoping to get savage beast of horrors off on this guy to take people by surprise. I'm relying on his T5 and WS10 to keep him out of trouble. Went for an all comers build with the chalice. HeroesBray-shaman (140) -Level 2 : Lore of beasts -magic items : Dispel scroll, ironcurse icon Basically scroll caddy and to help get all the spells I want from beasts. Wargor (206) -BSB : The beast banner -Gnarled hide -heavy armour and shield The infamous 206 BSB wargor I read about in the tactics. I am keen to give him a go, but I feel with no ward save, he might not last long. He will be sitting in a horde of 50 gor, so I might be able to protect him if he stays to one side, since the frontage is huge. Core
Gor Herd x 50 (425) -Full command -Double hand weapons The warogor and level 4 shaman go in here. Hoping to get them up to S5 with the banner and wildform. The frontage is a bit confronting because I have never used a horde of 25 mm bases! So I think there will be a learning curve here. Gor Herd x 20 (185) -Full command -Shields These guys are my beastmen ambush unit! Have to have at least one, otherwise why play this army?! But if ambush does not seem like an ideal ploy, can put the level 2 shaman in here. Tuskgor chariot (80) Tuskgor chariot (80) Flank protectors, chaff clearers, can help combats. I use chariots often with my WoC (which are faaaaar superior) so I know not to expect the same level of damage output, but the general versatility still applies. Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Ungor Raiders x 5 (33) -short bows -musician Chaff and screens, the musicians are there because I have points remaining. Special Bestigor herd x 30 (405) -great weapons -full command -standard of discipline This is where my Beastlord will be bunkered. And the level 2 shaman if the gor unit is ambushing. I read on the tactics to go all out and go horde with them, but with only 30 I dont think its worth it, and much prefer to run them 6 wide for a bunker. Sure its less attacks, but how often would I get a horde formation into base contact with all models swinging? Centigors x 10 (285) -spears and shields -full command I love these guys and the models are sick! They are very expensive for a cav unit (its beastmen haha) but I wanted something with swiftstride and a high movement to help get the flank on opponents. I am contemplating running them as 2 units of 5, but want to give 10 a go first. Razorgor (55) From what I have read, this piggy is a great chaff clearer and well worth its points. Grand total = 2492 Hoping to get a game with these guys next month once the covid numbers come down in my area. Curios about what you all think and any advice to help an upcoming beastmen player! Hey James, I echo the above gents, great looking starter list. I also picked up 5 more centigor recently as really want to try a big unit too (it was after seeing grandmasterwang fielding a big unit with Ghorros, so I fully blame him for that purchase ) With your spare points, give your beastlord a shield for 3 pts to bump his save to a 4+. You can also give your bray shaman an additional hand weapon for 2pts. He has the same stats as a gor, so it's a cheap way of getting an additional attack in the unit. I have to say that unless they have stubborn, I never run Bestigor in horde formation and probably even with 40 I probably wouldn't now. They unfortunately always die too easily, so having steadfast from ranks always seems to be better. I tend to run mine now with either 30 or 36 in a unit, 6 wide and either 5 or 6 ranks deep (depending on numbers). We also rarely run marks of chaos in our group. Running them as you are, you may not need the crown of command due to steadfast, so an alternative build for the Beastlord might be: Armour of Silvered Steel, Talisman of Protection, Additional hand weapon and Uncanny senses. This Gives you a 2+ save and 4++ ward. You still get your 5 attacks but they are initiative 6. And it still gives you 2 pts to give the additional hand weapon to the bray Shaman and comes in at 2,497pts. (The armour of silvered steel is quite pricey for what it gives but in a low save army, it can be worth it to give another character a decent save).
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Post by jamesacon on Jan 9, 2022 2:40:51 GMT
Hey all, so my covid lockdown project was building a playable beastmen army. I read the tactics page on here religiously (shout out to knoffles, that guide is amazing!) and it helped inspire me to build the models. This is pretty much what I have built, besides some minotaurs. Keen for some feedback and other opinions! Thanks in advance Hey James, I echo the above gents, great looking starter list. I also picked up 5 more centigor recently as really want to try a big unit too (it was after seeing grandmasterwang fielding a big unit with Ghorros, so I fully blame him for that purchase ) With your spare points, give your beastlord a shield for 3 pts to bump his save to a 4+. You can also give your bray shaman an additional hand weapon for 2pts. He has the same stats as a gor, so it's a cheap way of getting an additional attack in the unit. I have to say that unless they have stubborn, I never run Bestigor in horde formation and probably even with 40 I probably wouldn't now. They unfortunately always die too easily, so having steadfast from ranks always seems to be better. I tend to run mine now with either 30 or 36 in a unit, 6 wide and either 5 or 6 ranks deep (depending on numbers). We also rarely run marks of chaos in our group. Running them as you are, you may not need the crown of command due to steadfast, so an alternative build for the Beastlord might be: Armour of Silvered Steel, Talisman of Protection, Additional hand weapon and Uncanny senses. This Gives you a 2+ save and 4++ ward. You still get your 5 attacks but they are initiative 6. And it still gives you 2 pts to give the additional hand weapon to the bray Shaman and comes in at 2,497pts. (The armour of silvered steel is quite pricey for what it gives but in a low save army, it can be worth it to give another character a decent save). Hey knoffles, thanks for the tactics guide you wrote up for beastmen! It was really in depth and I appreciate the work you put into it (appreciate all tactics on EEFL, written by awesome dudes!) especially like your unit strategy and character builds. It was what helped me push to have a full army. Great suggestions on what to do with the points left over, will indeed put a shield on the beastlord and AHW on the shaman. I agree with what has been said about the horde formation of the bestigors, and will leave them as 6 wide. As for your alternative beastlord build suggestion, I think it has merit, but I would prefer a magic weapon on him to help with ethereal units. (which I face a bit). But if it was not for them, I would give your build a go! Also considering building a heavy minotaur list, but as you know they are way too over costed for what they do. I wish they got primal fury on top of extra attacks! Thanks for all the feedback everyone, once I get some games in I will post up some reports and my thoughts! Probably wont be pictures because they are not painted! haha
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Post by Crazy_Dokta on Jan 9, 2022 4:04:22 GMT
You may skip FCG on centigors (save 35pts). I would add some more raiders (let's say 4×5) and Herdstone (maybe reduce gors 50=>40?)
I'm glad for another Beastmen player anyway. Have fun!
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Post by knoffles on Jan 9, 2022 10:36:22 GMT
jamesacon though I refined the docs and wove them together, I can’t take full credit for it. The core was taken from articles all over the net and additional input from people here. Indeed as you get more games under your belt with them feel free to add feedback, especially if you have different views or notice inaccuracies!
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Post by jamesacon on May 6, 2022 21:59:17 GMT
Hey all its been a while since I have visited this forum. Life has been crazy and I now have a second spawn about 3 weeks old!
I managed to get some games in with the beastmen list and thought to share my experiences. I can't remember all the details of each game, but I can recall a few highlights.
Game 1 Orcs and goblins. 2000 points, I kept the list the same but dropped the 20 man gorblock, a chariot, the razorgor and halved the centigors.
My opponent ran a unit of night goblins with fanatics and goblin shaman, orc boyz with shields and boss BSB, aracknorok spider, 2 x 5 man spider riders, 10 boar boyz big uns and General.
Highlights and things learnt. - my chariot on 1 wound from charging through fanatics takes on the goblin block for 2 turns. Rolling a double 1 on primal fury in my second turn tips the scales and I chase them down! - 5 centigors charging the big spider I lose 1 from stand and shoot. I manage to take it down to 1 wound! But lose in the second round, because failed my fear check but passed the primal fury. Why can't they have lances? - the horde of gors melted his boar boyz with wissims wildform. Then the aracknorok after it charged my rear. -bestigors easily handled the BSB block.
So beastmen victory for my first game! Pretty happy with outcome. But alas it will be my only win from here out!
Game 2 2500 against Skaven. Pretty much the quickest game I have ever played. Skaven go first, screaming bell gets off skorch on my Lord and bestigor unit, I fail the panic, re roll into an 11, flee 12 off the edge... -centigors get shot by doom wheel and warp lightening cannon. Fail LD they start a chain reaction for chariots and razorgor. So basically after all of that I only have my gor block my other one is ambushing, and some raiders... I call it there, the HPA is in front of my gors lol
Game 3 Rematch for Skaven 2500 My opponent changed his list and didn't take a HPA, but instead took a screaming bell unit, plague furnace unit, 2 doomwheels, plague thrower, cannon, 2 blocks of clan rats with wind mortars.
Needless to say it was not fun haha. I just couldn't protect my flanks from the doom wheels. I lost 70% of my bestigors by the time I made combat, my 50 man gor unit was wittled down to half and fighting 2 unbreakable units was impossible. My ambushers never arrived!
Things I learnt -keep stuff prone to panic more than 6" away. I know this is not a new tactic but coming from a warriors of chaos Khorne player, it's a steep learning curve. - no point in ambushing that gor block of 20. I think 5 man raiders would be better. -doomwheels are so hard to play against with shooting in CC and random movement. Might try lore of death on my level 2.
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Post by jamesacon on May 6, 2022 22:23:00 GMT
Game 4 Warriors of chaos Khorne army. 2500 My opponent had a big unit of juggs with BSB and Lord. 2 warrior blocks, 5 knights, hounds, chimera.
This was a real fun game I had magic superiority due to no enemy wizards so had wissims quite a bit. I tried a new build on my beastlord, armour of Destiny, additional hand weapon, gouge tusks and crown of command. When this guy had savage beasts on, oh man! He melted the juggs!
Things I learnt. -no more ambusing 20 man gors!! Lol -centigors suck after first round and fear checks against monsters. -my raiders managed to take out a warrior block for 2 turns, making him fail his frenzy check! I am really liking these dudes. - I should of reformed my horde into ranks to fight the juggs, I opted for more attacks but the 1+ save and 3 wounds were too hard, my Lord arrived a turn late. -not sold on razorgor. Not having a save or primal fury is a big let down.
This is the last time I use the list. I went back to the drawing board and changed it for the next game.
Game 5 Skaven again. This time my list was changed around and I had 2 ghorgons, 50 gors, a chariot, 4 x 5 raiders, bestigors, 3 minotaurs. I put all 4 characters into the 50 man block. With blackened plate on the lord and magic resist 3 on the level 2 shaman. So was getting a 2+ ward save against skorch! The list did a lot better. I managed to get into Combat intact and wiped out his storm vermin and big clan rat unit, I unfortunately lost my Lord to queek. But what can you do lol.
Things I learnt - ghorgons are very suited to flanks, I just rolled poorly on their damage into doomwheels. - ambusing 2 units of 5 man raiders was much more pleasant and no real down side for such a cheap unit. - minotaurs without frenzy run away too easily. Next time I use them will be with a character. -skorch is a BS spell and the screaming bell is so depressing lol. - lore of beasts all the way, I tried shadow this game but missed wildform!
That was all the games I have had so far, how do other fellow beastmen players manage their LD? I found it quite hard to keep in that bubble. Or is it more I keep versing Skaven haha
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beastyboy
Full Member
5th eddition lizardmen !
Posts: 227
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Post by beastyboy on May 7, 2022 7:47:17 GMT
Hey its beasty here if you want to save some points on a cheap distraction unit of minotaur have a champion and the berserker sword 😉
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Post by jamesacon on May 9, 2022 1:25:11 GMT
Hey its beasty here if you want to save some points on a cheap distraction unit of minotaur have a champion and the berserker sword 😉 Not sure that works. The majority of models have to have ITP. The berzerker sword just makes the unit have to charge etc..
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Post by DemolitionMan on May 10, 2022 15:48:36 GMT
Glad to hear you are having fun and getting some games in!
Skaven are an awful match for us depending on what they bring, using the free marks comp does help us out massively though, would recommend trying it out . Chalice of dark rain can shut down their shooting phase, but my personal preference for dealing with war machine heavy enemies is the following: Cygor. can hide if they go first then walk out and throw the rock with no penalty. They aren't popular but I love them, mine has been given the nickname 'Jim Bowen' by ,y group because he always hits the bullseye lol. Death sniper scout shaman, level 2 for variety and if you really want to go crazy power stone or ruby ring because you can get into positions to pick off all sorts of lone characters or small units with a fireball. expensive though. oh and most importantly ungor raiders to check doomwheels - you need to be proper gamey with the positioning so you can misdirect them and use a second unit to railroad them
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Post by lordofskullpass on May 10, 2022 15:59:34 GMT
Glad to hear you are having fun and getting some games in! Skaven are an awful match for us depending on what they bring, using the free marks comp does help us out massively though, would recommend trying it out . Chalice of dark rain can shut down their shooting phase, but my personal preference for dealing with war machine heavy enemies is the following: Cygor. can hide if they go first then walk out and throw the rock with no penalty. They aren't popular but I love them, mine has been given the nickname 'Jim Bowen' by ,y group because he always hits the bullseye lol. Death sniper scout shaman, level 2 for variety and if you really want to go crazy power stone or ruby ring because you can get into positions to pick off all sorts of lone characters or small units with a fireball. expensive though. oh and most importantly ungor raiders to check doomwheels - you need to be proper gamey with the positioning so you can misdirect them and use a second unit to railroad them I would have thought some Ambushing units of 10 Ungor Raiders would be useful for taking out Skaven (and any other faction's) War Machines (of course we have the very unpredictable 7th Edition Ambush rule to contend with if we go 'official' but generally you'd still be able to get a good enough position to move them behind the Skaven Player's line to attack his artillery (unless you roll a 1 and your opponent places them on your table edge ). I've never understood the appeal of units of 5 because they just cannot achieve anything useful other than baiting Frenzied units. I like my units to actually be able to do something other than be redirectors.
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Post by knoffles on May 11, 2022 5:32:10 GMT
Good to see you getting in games. Beastmen are a challenging army to play as you’ve found out. I’d say more than any other army I’ve used they are so reliant on leadership not just for primal fury but for all the other chaff and chariots running around (if your opponent allows marks of chaos, it does mitigate this weakness a lot). For some general tips and apologies if these are obvious (they are general as I’ll admit to having limited games vs Skaven).
Deployment. I’ve found it really useful to plan out/practice my deployment, with a list, before a game to ensure as much as possible was within the LD/BSB bubble. Know where you want your characters and support units/chaff, in relation to your main blocks. With some armies you can be more reactionary with placement and as you get more familiar with beasts, you can be but initially I’d recommend doing this. I went a step further (and sometimes still do it) and just laid my main Gor block, centre(ish) of the table, as my first placement. Not only does that sometimes throw your opponent (the unit can be intimidating considering it’s footprint) but it will often contain your bsb or general and so gives you the good starting point for where you want everything else in comparison (just remember to leave space in front of it if you want some chaff there).
Chaff You will learn to master chaff with Beastmen. We have so many good, cheap options. 5 raiders for 30pts are excellent. 2-4 units can be marched up to block enemy charges, provide hard cover for your other units vs shooting. Units of 10 are worth considering as it takes a bit more to panic them. Treat them with the utter contempt half-horns deserve (think of them as being in the same league as goblins but their inbred second cousin). If by some chance they manage to shoot a target of worth and kill it (say a knight). Dance around with glee. I’ve rarely had any consistent joy with Razorgor in combat (except when strapped to a chariot). It’s main issue is the poor initiative (2) and low weapon skill. It is tough though and if it hits (it’s a big if), it can hit hard. What it does give, is a 14” march move chaff that is very manoeuvrable and can be hard to remove. This probably makes them our easiest to use and most reliable chaff. However, Harpies are starting to become my chaff of choice. 10 initiative 5 attacks on 5 models is good enough to often remove other chaff or warmachine crews and fly and skirmish just gives them such great mobility. I like to use them in two ways. Stick them behind my large Gor block as a reserve chaff and advance them to block a unit at a crucial point or if there is a clear route to a choice target (say, a wizard in a bunker) or I give a unit scout and use them to annoy the hell out of an opponent/get to warmachines from T2. I prefer scout to ambush as it’s generally more reliable and forces your opponent to deploy to counter it. I will switch them between a 5*1 and 3*2 formation every move depending on what use they are likely to have. The 3*2 is great for warmachine hunting as they still all get to attack with all their attacks (pg 109 of the brb) and the smaller footprint allows them to avoid charge arcs, fit through small gaps. I’ve never had any joy in ambushing Gor. Ungor I’ve found better for it but just in general I’m not fond of the basic rulebook ambush rule, never mind the Beastmen one so I never use it anymore. My main issue probably comes down to the Beastmen leadership and having them appear so far away from the LD/BSB bubble
As stated above, the Chalice of Dark Rain is a great item, if a little pricey. A 1+ item if you are taking double ghorgons, especially if your opponent likely has access to cannons and/or other warmachines/shooting.
Railroading is a gamey tactic but really effective vs doom wheels and HPAs. Use it if your group is really competitive as it is legal but if your games are friendly affairs I’d probably avoid it.
I’ve not used a Cygor as yet (potentially Friday) but after playing some good tournament players recently, with some of their cagey antics, I’m starting to really warm to the idea of having the long range fire support to try and ‘encourage’ them to get into combat quicker with my units.
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