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Post by knoffles on Aug 28, 2018 17:36:52 GMT
As far as your list, it looks good and worth a go! I think that the Moonstone might be a bit of a waste, after your first game. Other's will quickly catch onto what it can do, and will simply camp one model out in each "portable" forest, blocking you from using the stone. I think that it's more of an item to take to random one-off games. In campaigns like this, it can wind up being useless, and it simply costs too much for a throw-away item. Also, I don't know how effective it'd be on your Spellcaster, seeing as I've only ever used it on a Glade Captain (usually in with a unit of Wildwood Rangers), but it might be tricky seeing as how you could find her suddenly stranded and very vulnerable with no saves of any kind. That was kinda what I was thinking too. Right, amendment coming up đ
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Post by strutsagget on Aug 29, 2018 4:39:16 GMT
I see that various units have the same enchanted arrows. Enchnated arows are enchanted items, and while the AB contains the exemption that they "do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item," it does not contain an exemption to the "unique" rule applying to all magic items (BRB p. 500): "you can only have one of each in your army unless otherwise stated in the magic item's rules." You could argue that it's not unique to begin with as arrows are spread out to the full unit with limitless arrows per model.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 29, 2018 8:56:41 GMT
Pretty much everyone does, so you're fine with duplicate arrows. (In fact, I've never seen or played anyone who argued against this.) It was hotly debated when the Wood Elves AB came out - the year before WFB was canned. RAW was rather clear, and any claim to RAI was basically scuttled from the start by the specified exemption that they "do not prevent a model from having a second enchanted item," proving that the author was quite aware of the implications. That said, here is not the place to re-open that discussion, in particular as it is accepted as a house rule.
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 29, 2018 17:31:59 GMT
FWIW, I use Army Builder software. For me, itâs the gospel of legal versus not. If you equipped multiple units with Trueflight Arrows, you do get a warning that reads as follows: âThere are multiple instances of Trueflight Arrows in your army. Since this is a subject of debate, be sure to check that your opponent is fine with it.â
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Post by wilsonthenarc on Aug 29, 2018 17:36:39 GMT
FWIW, still in Army Builder. If you build a Glade Captain with say, Swiftshiver Shards and the Bow of Loren, you get an ERROR (not a warning, an error). Army Builder says, âOne or more options are not validâ. I think it is universally agreed upon that you CAN'T shoot enchanted arrows with a magic weapon bow. I would add that it must be one or the other as a build, i.e. you canât say âI want to shoot enchanted arrows with my regular bowâ on turn 1 and then on turn 2 shooting phase âI want to shoot regular arrows with my cool magic bowâ. Illegal.
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Post by mottdon on Aug 29, 2018 18:42:48 GMT
FWIW, still in Army Builder. If you build a Glade Captain with say, Swiftshiver Shards and the Bow of Loren, you get an ERROR (not a warning, an error). Army Builder says, âOne or more options are not validâ. I think it is universally agreed upon that you CAN'T shoot enchanted arrows with a magic weapon bow. I would add that it must be one or the other as a build, i.e. you canât say âI want to shoot enchanted arrows with my regular bowâ on turn 1 and then on turn 2 shooting phase âI want to shoot regular arrows with my cool magic bowâ. Illegal. I agree with this. But there is no problem with taking Hagbane Tips on several units of elves. I'd be wary of playing anyone who has an issue with it. They're probably going to rules-lawyer you.
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Aug 29, 2018 20:26:10 GMT
It seems we are going to be sucked into discussing this anyway. The reason there is a warning for Trueflight Arrows (and I suspect for all Enchanted Arrows) is precisely because it is a subject of debate. And as I pointed out before, The RAW is pretty clear, and any claims to intent have the problem that the author was obviously quite aware of the limitations of enchanted items. You can hardly call this rules-lawyering.
Regarding the case of the Glade Captain: I am not quite sure why you could not choose between the normal Asrai longbow (+ enchanted arrows) and the Bow of Loren (without enchanted arrows). Perhaps it is because the rules of enchanted arrows specify that (WE AB p. 37): "Each type of enchanted arrow replaces the profile of the Asrai longbow with the one shown in its entry. This is not optional - if a model has enchanted arrows, he must use them when shooting with an Asrai longbow" and the Bow of Loren is specified as an Asrai Bow (which cannot take enchanted arrows). However, because a Glade Captain has the Bow of Loren, it does not mean that he does not have his normal Asrai longbow any longer. As it says on BRB p. 88: "If for some reason a model has more than one missile weapon, he is allowed to choose which one to fire during the Shooting phase," and the "I'm using this one" rule for magic wepaons only applies to CC weapons.
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Post by knoffles on Sept 19, 2018 7:24:52 GMT
Gents, If everything goes to plan, I may well be meeting up with grandmasterwang , while he is over in London, for a game. He has expressed an interest in playing Wood elves as he hasn't used them very much, so I said i'd knock together a couple of lists. I've tried to include a bit of everything in them for variety. Let me know your thoughts. List 1 - My amended potential competition listSpellweaver - lvl 4 - lore of shadow, earthing rod, talisman of Preservation - 310pts Glade Captain - starfire shafts - great eagle, charmed shield, sword of striking, HODA - 179pts 21 glade guard - standard, musician - trueflight Arrows - 335pts 10 Dryads - 110pts 10 Glade guard - standard - banner of eternal flame - hagbane Arrows - 180pts 5 Sisters of the Thorn - 130pts 6 Treekin - Elder - 280pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - hagbane Arrows - 160pts 5 Wardancers - 75pts 3 Warhawks - 135pts 6 Wildriders - Champion - 178pts 6 Wildriders - Champion - 178pts 1 Great Eagle - 50pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts List 2 - A bit of everything
Spellweaver - lvl 4 - lore of shadow, earthing rod, Talisman of Preservation - 310pts Glade Captain - starfire shafts - enchanted shield, sword of striking, HODA - 129pts 25 Eternal guard - FC - shields, Banner of Eternal Flame - 340pts 10 Dryads - Branch Nymph - 120pts 10 Glade guard - standard + musician - Trueflight Arrows - 170pts 5 Sisters of the Thorn - standard, Standard of Discipline - 155pts 6 Treekin - Elder - 280pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - hagbane Arrows - 160pts 6 Wardancers - 90pts 3 Warhawks - 135pts 6 Wildriders - Champion, shields - 178pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts 1 Treeman - 225pts
Other options
I'll welcome other thoughts/lists as my play time with WE's is limited in 8th too.
For other options I own (or I should say have at my house): Orion Hero on Great Stag 20 Wildwood Rangers Branchwraith + Drycha 15 wardancers 90+ odd archers 1 Treeman 6 Treekin 3 Warhawk Riders 5 Sisters 10 Wildriders mage on eagle Mage on Unicorn hero on eagle shadowdancer Ariel (not that she has rules in 8th) plenty of heroes/mages on foot 2 Waystalkers The one major thing for the book I don't have up here is glade riders but have other things I can use to proxy them.
I'm not sure what I'm bringing yet.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Sept 19, 2018 13:03:15 GMT
If possible I'd like to use the Hero on Great Stag model. I've always loved that model and I know you didn't finish painting it too long ago. I took a look at your Beastmen frenzy list and would be fine trying a 'no magic' wood elf list for fun (i think the Beastmen list was no magic) Anyway, happy to use whatever
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 19, 2018 17:14:22 GMT
In first list I think eternal flame is wasted on the GG hagbane tips as it doesn't stack and can only be used in CC (I recently found this out). I also think you have a low banner count if you roll a 4 on the scenario. Maybe free up for a banner?
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Post by FvonSigmaringen on Sept 19, 2018 21:29:32 GMT
strutsagget: Yes and no. As BRB p. 69 says: "Unless otherwise stated, a model with this special rule has both Flaming shooting and close combat attacks (though any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are any attacks made with magic weapons they might be wielding)." The Banner of the Eternal Flame does not state otherwise, and thus affects both shooting and CC attacks. However, it will indeed not stack with the Hagbane Tips, because "All Shooting attacks made with enchanted arrows count as having been made with magic weapons"(Wood Elves AB p. 37).
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Post by knoffles on Sept 19, 2018 21:32:53 GMT
Cheers gents. Never clocked that about the bannerđ
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Post by knoffles on Sept 20, 2018 7:02:03 GMT
List 2 - A bit of everything (amended)
Spellweaver - lvl 4 - steed lore of shadow, earthing rod, Talisman of Preservation - 310pts Glade Captain - Great Stag, starfire shafts, Helm of the Hunt, HODA, Asrai spear - 198pts 25 Eternal guard - FC - shields, Banner of Eternal Flame - 340pts 10 Dryads - Branch Nymph - 120pts 10 Glade guard - standard + musician - Trueflight Arrows - 170pts 5 Sisters of the Thorn - standard, Standard of Discipline - 155pts 6 Treekin - 270pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - hagbane Arrows - 160pts 5 Wardancers - 90pts 3 Warhawks - 135pts 5 Wildriders - shields - 140pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts 1 Treeman - 225pts There you go grandmasterwang . Hero on Stag included. I do recommend keeping magic in the list, as even with my limited play time with them in 8th, I do think Wood Elves really need it.
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Post by grandmasterwang on Sept 20, 2018 7:19:08 GMT
List 2 - A bit of everything (amended)
Spellweaver - lvl 4 - steed lore of shadow, earthing rod, Talisman of Preservation - 310pts Glade Captain - Great Stag, starfire shafts, Helm of the Hunt, HODA, Asrai spear - 198pts 25 Eternal guard - FC - shields, Banner of Eternal Flame - 340pts 10 Dryads - Branch Nymph - 120pts 10 Glade guard - standard + musician - Trueflight Arrows - 170pts 5 Sisters of the Thorn - standard, Standard of Discipline - 155pts 6 Treekin - 270pts 10 Deepwood Scouts - hagbane Arrows - 160pts 5 Wardancers - 90pts 3 Warhawks - 135pts 5 Wildriders - shields - 140pts 10 Waywatchers - 200pts 1 Treeman - 225pts There you go grandmasterwang . Hero on Stag included. I do recommend keeping magic in the list, as even with my limited play time with them in 8th, I do think Wood Elves really need it. Great, I like it! Lots of different things in there for me to try My friend has sampled dark elves so will enjoy the asf rerolls. I'm liking that it has the 3 different tree units in there which are probably my favourite thing about Wood Elves and I get to sample them all. Looking forward to it. Cross continental eefl battle. What a thrip.
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Post by strutsagget on Sept 20, 2018 8:10:44 GMT
I would maybe skip 2 scouts and upgrade Captain to BSB I always fail those LD 8 tests...
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