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Post by mottdon on Oct 31, 2017 15:13:22 GMT
The End Times lore was a travesty imo. Since GW decided to kill the Old World and all the awsome stories that got me to play that way I don't recognize them as cannon personally. I won't play end times games either. So many characters and lore lines were so easily tossed aside and distorted. Asuryan hating the pheonix kings and Malakith being accepted by Alarielle and by Alith Anar were the last straw for me. To each their own if you do like it but I turn my nose up at it. I honestly couldn't agree more. I despised The End Times very early on. The fluff was horrible and the rules were extremely unbalanced. I'm glad I didn't waste even dime on any of those books. Same here. I've never read them, I've just been told by others what happened. I'm afraid that I'd get waaay to mad if I were to read those books. There were just way too many unceremonial deaths for amazing characters. And, yeah, things like Malekith just suddenly being accepted as the Phoenix King? After all he's done? That's just ridiculous. His actions would've knocked him out of contention a LOOOONG time ago! |
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Valten
Oct 31, 2017 15:35:36 GMT
via mobile
Post by Sunfangsunburn on Oct 31, 2017 15:35:36 GMT
I honestly couldn't agree more. I despised The End Times very early on. The fluff was horrible and the rules were extremely unbalanced. I'm glad I didn't waste even dime on any of those books. Same here. I've never read them, I've just been told by others what happened. I'm afraid that I'd get waaay to mad if I were to read those books. There were just way too many unceremonial deaths for amazing characters. And, yeah, things like Malekith just suddenly being accepted as the Phoenix King? After all he's done? That's just ridiculous. His actions would've knocked him out of contention a LOOOONG time ago! Yup all the rape and torture of loyal elves, the spreading of corruption that's all fine. What about the the Pheonix guard's connection with Asuryan? They fought like fanatics against Malekith but Asuryan always like Malekith secretly and the Pheonix guard knew and were acting. Malekith wanted Alarielle mutilated and used as a standard and sent N'Kari after her to do who knows what but they are so cool now she will take him as her consort. Alith Anar who hates Malekith more than anyone else kills Tyrion right before he kills Malekith and saves him. After Khaine I was done. |
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Post by Naitsabes on Oct 31, 2017 16:36:38 GMT
just so we have some breadth of opinions: I am okay with the End Times stuff. If you assume that to optimize shareholder value they decided to end proper Fantasy and bring out some freaky abomination of a game, then I prefer End Times to just ending it (or even letting it linger on). The books have cool art work, some parts of the stories are written well-enough and I even like some of the rules. And they do inspire me to re-play some of their scenarios...or at least paint/model forces to do so.
The Glottkin book sticks out as the best of the lot. I have the sneaking suspicion this was maybe originally planned as a stand-alone supplement more like Tamurkhan? (this is mostly based on it ending on sort of a high note with Glottkin defeated and the Empire saved for the moment...of course as always on the brink of utter destruction).
I guess the High-Dark Elf love fest causes the most grief in people and it probably doesn't affect me as much because the Dark Elves never made sense to me to begin with. I did like the way Tyrion went down a path of righteousness that lead to doom and destruction and Teclis revealed as the ultimate schemer trying to do good by doing horrible bad things.
Anyway, I see pitchforks and torches. Bring it on, I can take it!
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Post by gjnoronh on Oct 31, 2017 18:43:46 GMT
If you want a good read along of the End Times fluff check out the Garagehammer Podcast coverage of the end times. I actually quite liked it but I know it's not everyone's cup of tea. After close to 30 years of a quite static Warhammer world history it was exciting to see the 'plot move along' so to speak. I thought some of the twists were pretty cool.
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Valten
Oct 31, 2017 19:10:53 GMT
via mobile
Horace likes this
Post by Sunfangsunburn on Oct 31, 2017 19:10:53 GMT
just so we have some breadth of opinions: I am okay with the End Times stuff. If you assume that to optimize shareholder value they decided to end proper Fantasy and bring out some freaky abomination of a game, then I prefer End Times to just ending it (or even letting it linger on). The books have cool art work, some parts of the stories are written well-enough and I even like some of the rules. And they do inspire me to re-play some of their scenarios...or at least paint/model forces to do so. The Glottkin book sticks out as the best of the lot. I have the sneaking suspicion this was maybe originally planned as a stand-alone supplement more like Tamurkhan? (this is mostly based on it ending on sort of a high note with Glottkin defeated and the Empire saved for the moment...of course as always on the brink of utter destruction). I guess the High-Dark Elf love fest causes the most grief in people and it probably doesn't affect me as much because the Dark Elves never made sense to me to begin with. I did like the way Tyrion went down a path of righteousness that lead to doom and destruction and Teclis revealed as the ultimate schemer trying to do good by doing horrible bad things. Anyway, I see pitchforks and torches. Bring it on, I can take it! Like I said too each their own, I am glad you like it I did not. I did like Tyrion becoming like Aenarion and Teclis being a schemer but Malekith's turn around and acceptance by the majority of Elves invalidates so much of the previous lore I can't get past that. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2017 19:38:55 GMT
The End Times lore was a travesty imo. Since GW decided to kill the Old World and all the awsome stories that got me to play that way I don't recognize them as cannon personally. I won't play end times games either. So many characters and lore lines were so easily tossed aside and distorted. Asuryan hating the pheonix kings and Malakith being accepted by Alarielle and by Alith Anar were the last straw for me. To each their own if you do like it but I turn my nose up at it. Dwarves in particular really got the short (see what I did there?) end of the stick. I don't think a single character of theirs survived. Or any of their holds. Because Skaven. Entertaining, but man I felt bad for them. |
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Valten
Oct 31, 2017 21:22:29 GMT
Post by imrillion on Oct 31, 2017 21:22:29 GMT
No pitchforks, I'm only new here but this forum seems like the NICEST and most supportive forum ever 😂 I hated that the Bretonians were basically a footnote! I was so buzzed that the Green Knight was Giles I was hoping for a ghostly retinue... or... SOMETHING... then to find out they were litteraly tricked into being sacrificial meat shields for wood elves 😪 Made me a lil sad for them!
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Valten
Oct 31, 2017 21:23:26 GMT
Post by imrillion on Oct 31, 2017 21:23:26 GMT
The End Times lore was a travesty imo. Since GW decided to kill the Old World and all the awsome stories that got me to play that way I don't recognize them as cannon personally. I won't play end times games either. So many characters and lore lines were so easily tossed aside and distorted. Asuryan hating the pheonix kings and Malakith being accepted by Alarielle and by Alith Anar were the last straw for me. To each their own if you do like it but I turn my nose up at it. Dwarves in particular really got the short (see what I did there?) end of the stick. I don't think a single character of theirs survived. Or any of their holds. Because Skaven. Entertaining, but man I felt bad for them. Ikr! At least in storm of chaos the Dawii got those wikkid slayers and the Goblin hewer! |
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Post by NIGHTBRINGER on Nov 1, 2017 3:03:40 GMT
just so we have some breadth of opinions: I am okay with the End Times stuff. If you assume that to optimize shareholder value they decided to end proper Fantasy and bring out some freaky abomination of a game, then I prefer End Times to just ending it (or even letting it linger on). Anyway, I see pitchforks and torches. Bring it on, I can take it! No pitchforks required; to each their own. For a send off, I would have preferred if they had released army books for the last 3 armies (Beastmen, Bretonnia and Skaven) and a complete set of FAQs. That way they would have left us with a complete edition. |
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 1, 2017 7:23:39 GMT
just so we have some breadth of opinions: I am okay with the End Times stuff. If you assume that to optimize shareholder value they decided to end proper Fantasy and bring out some freaky abomination of a game, then I prefer End Times to just ending it (or even letting it linger on). The books have cool art work, some parts of the stories are written well-enough and I even like some of the rules. And they do inspire me to re-play some of their scenarios...or at least paint/model forces to do so. The Glottkin book sticks out as the best of the lot. I have the sneaking suspicion this was maybe originally planned as a stand-alone supplement more like Tamurkhan? (this is mostly based on it ending on sort of a high note with Glottkin defeated and the Empire saved for the moment...of course as always on the brink of utter destruction). I guess the High-Dark Elf love fest causes the most grief in people and it probably doesn't affect me as much because the Dark Elves never made sense to me to begin with. I did like the way Tyrion went down a path of righteousness that lead to doom and destruction and Teclis revealed as the ultimate schemer trying to do good by doing horrible bad things. Anyway, I see pitchforks and torches. Bring it on, I can take it! The Glottkin was where the good 'End Times' ended. After that they just released shitty books without amazing miniatures which showed the effort they put into the final 3..... Compared with the first 2. The lack in effort from Glottkin to Khaine was very evident. Regarding pitchforks... I'm pretty sure they are just count-as spears so offer no combat bonus besides fight in extra ranks for us non mounted forum goers. 😀 Given I basically run my own Warhammer Fantasy universe I'm happy the books came out overall as they gave me more stuff and options to play with as well as snippets of inspiration. I like the Blood Thirster and Verminlord split type rules for example. I see the End Times as a hypothetical, same as Storm of Chaos (Warhammer setting is locked roughly during Karl Franz's reign for me).... so we have 1 hypothetical where Chaos won.. and another where they were beaten back. |
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Valten
Nov 1, 2017 8:30:46 GMT
Post by frozenfood on Nov 1, 2017 8:30:46 GMT
I never read any of those books. If you could recommend one, which one would it be?
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Post by grandmasterwang on Nov 1, 2017 8:41:30 GMT
I never read any of those books. If you could recommend one, which one would it be? Definitely the first one regarding Nagash. Both the novel and End Times book itself is decent and worth a read. Also crucially doesn't have anything too offensive to a Warhammer lover so shouldn't really 'kill' the world lore in the way the later ones did. The first can be read as a standalone. The novel comes before the End Times book timeline wise. |
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Valten
Nov 1, 2017 8:42:34 GMT
via mobile
Post by knoffles on Nov 1, 2017 8:42:34 GMT
I read the novels and I'm slowly working my way through the 'campaign' books (though only on no. 3 - skaven). Apart from the whole end of the world, one of the most annoying things for me was the split of stories between the novels and rule books. I also hated that the dwarves finally find all the ancestor gods/ hidden parts of the underway and it doesn't matter. In fact the whole dwarf 'ending' seemed a thrown together 'that'll do' (though again haven't finished the rule book fluff).
The bit I did love was vlad coming back and him seeking to be a recognised empire count. I thought that was one bit that tied in well to the previous fluff (though I think this was in gottkin, which as mentioned above seemed quite well thought out).
I'd also been really enjoying the age of legends books (nagash, sigmar, dragonback mountain one etc) and they of course finished with end of times. Gutted as loved the warhammer world novels and that is probably the greatest loss for me, maybe almost more than the game system no longer being supported.
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Post by imrillion on Nov 1, 2017 9:39:19 GMT
just so we have some breadth of opinions: I am okay with the End Times stuff. If you assume that to optimize shareholder value they decided to end proper Fantasy and bring out some freaky abomination of a game, then I prefer End Times to just ending it (or even letting it linger on). The books have cool art work, some parts of the stories are written well-enough and I even like some of the rules. And they do inspire me to re-play some of their scenarios...or at least paint/model forces to do so. The Glottkin book sticks out as the best of the lot. I have the sneaking suspicion this was maybe originally planned as a stand-alone supplement more like Tamurkhan? (this is mostly based on it ending on sort of a high note with Glottkin defeated and the Empire saved for the moment...of course as always on the brink of utter destruction). I guess the High-Dark Elf love fest causes the most grief in people and it probably doesn't affect me as much because the Dark Elves never made sense to me to begin with. I did like the way Tyrion went down a path of righteousness that lead to doom and destruction and Teclis revealed as the ultimate schemer trying to do good by doing horrible bad things. Anyway, I see pitchforks and torches. Bring it on, I can take it! The Glottkin was where the good 'End Times' ended. After that they just released shitty books without amazing miniatures which showed the effort they put into the final 3..... Compared with the first 2. The lack in effort from Glottkin to Khaine was very evident. Regarding pitchforks... I'm pretty sure they are just count-as spears so offer no combat bonus besides fight in extra ranks for us non mounted forum goers. 😀 Given I basically run my own Warhammer Fantasy universe I'm happy the books came out overall as they gave me more stuff and options to play with as well as snippets of inspiration. I like the Blood Thirster and Verminlord split type rules for example. I see the End Times as a hypothetical, same as Storm of Chaos (Warhammer setting is locked roughly during Karl Franz's reign for me).... so we have 1 hypothetical where Chaos won.. and another where they were beaten back. Oh my god Wang that's a perfect way to look at it ! 😍 |
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Valten
Nov 1, 2017 9:51:01 GMT
Post by Horace on Nov 1, 2017 9:51:01 GMT
I started reading Nagash but I can't really be arsed with it. It was obviously not going to end in a manner I could tolerate (it didn't) so I am just going to gloss over the whole thing. It feels really lazy in comparison to the rest of the lore (which I do realise is largely derivative) and lacking in any love/imagination (not sure what this word should be - it is just not right).
The End Times don't really sit too well with me as a whole. Even the models are the beginnings of AoS which I pretty much dislike to it's core.
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